stone discus

hey, just a quick question regarding the spell stone discus
is it possible that after the spell is done, to recover the projectile and cast stone shape on it to make say a stone club or blunt arrowheads with the bypassing DR special?
CL5 bypass magic and silver

would these items work?

thanks in advance

Up to your GM. Actual stone is created and remains. But we don’t know how useful it is.

The stone remains but I would only rule it has the special properties in the instant it flies as a stone discuss. If the spell was meant to give you special materials it would say so.

I would say that any disk hitting will be destroyed like it is ammunition. Even those that miss have a 50% chance of being destroyed.
Even if a disk survives it will not have the ability to bypass damage.

The ability to bypass damage is a function of the spell not the disk itself. Once the spell ends the disk is just a stone disk. The duration is listed as instantaneous which means once the spell ends the magic is no longer present.

(Bitter laugh)
So someone thought that the Conjuration school needed a spell equivalent to Scorching Ray and wrote this abomination without thinking much.

Stone Discus

Source Advanced Class Guide pg. 194
School conjuration (creation) [earth]; Level arcanist 2, bloodrager 2, druid 2, hunter 2, magus 2, sorcerer 2, witch 2, wizard 2
Casting
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S, M (a pinch of earth or metal)
Effect
Range close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Effect one or more stone discuses
Duration Instantaneous
Saving Throw none; Spell Resistance no
Description
You create a stone discus, which flies at an enemy. You can create one discus, plus one additional discus at 7th and 11th caster levels. For each discus you create, you decide whether its edge is blunt (and deals bludgeoning damage) or sharp (and deals slashing damage). Each discus requires a ranged attack to hit and deals 4d6 points of damage. The discuses can be launched at more than one target, but all must be aimed at targets within 30 feet of each other and launched simultaneously.

At caster level 5th, the discuses count as magic and silver. At caster level 10th, they also count as cold iron. At caster level 15th, they also count as adamantine.

Creation

Source PRPG Core Rulebook
Definition Type Subschool
A creation spell manipulates matter to create an object or creature in the place the spellcaster designates. If the spell has a duration other than instantaneous, magic holds the creation together, and when the spell ends, the conjured creature or object vanishes without a trace. If the spell has an instantaneous duration, the created object or creature is merely assembled through magic. It lasts indefinitely and does not depend on magic for its existence.

RAW you create one or more items that are (potentially) magical, silver, cold iron, and adamantine.

If you meld them together the magic is lost (AFAIK there is no way to permanently fuse together magic items), so the only way to use them is as disk-shaped ammunition (I recall a kind of crossbow capable to fire discus shaped ammunition, but I don't think it was a Pathfinder item) or, if your GM decides that the volume and mass of the piece of ammunition are appropriate, as arrowheads if you have a way to shape them. Stoen shape doesn't do fine details, so sharp arrowheads are out of the discussion, blunt is a possibility.
You transmute one disk with each casting of Stone shape.
I don't think that the disks are particularly large, so I don't think a stone club is a valid option.

All the above is my take of the RAW interpretation of the spell.
Personally, I think that who wrote it funked it and that last line should read:
"For 1 round after being conjured the discusses count as magic and silver if the spell is cast at Caster Level 5. Casting it a CL 10 add the cold iron property to that. Casting it at CL 15 adds the adamantine property to that."

The spell, as usual for Conjurations, doesn't care about spell resistance, so, even hitting against normal AC, it is too good for a 2nd level spell of a school that doesn't specialize in direct damage. That is Invocation field.
If I were to use it at my table, I would bump it one spell level higher.

As it is a Conjuration (Creation) spell with an Instantaneous duration, the only magic involved is in the initial creation of the stone disks and then the part that actually flings them at the targets.

Exactly how or why they count for bypassing DR is undefined, but by virtue of the nature of Conjuration (Creation) spells, it's some kind of non-magical property that persists after being created because the spell description doesn't define things otherwise.

Pellet Blast is an example of what it looks like when they write a Conjuration (Creation) spell, give it an Instantaneous duration, and are aware of the implications of doing so but then want to undo that fact using the spell description.

As it is stone, it should be a valid target for Stone Shape, but exactly how much stone is in each individual discus or how many pieces they break into after striking a target or missing and striking some other surface is completely up to the GM. Whether the stone is suitable for being shaped using nonmagical crafting is also completely up to the GM, although it probably shouldn't be ruled to basically be Talc. Generally the technology available for shaping stone seems to be a bit better than just flint-knapping tools, but the individual setting is going to modify that.

The only other "discus" in the game is the chakram, which is not treated as ammunition.

It is a flat, open-centered metal discus with a sharpened edge.

So, considering the discus as ammunition would be a house rule that goes against an official precedent.

Even as ammunition that is destroyed if u can find all the pieces it may be possible to repair the discus with mending/make whole etc.

This is like the Iron Stake thing, isn't it? "Free" cold iron nails...

Even as ammunition that is destroyed if u can find all the pieces it may be possible to repair the discus with mending/make whole etc.

Lots of work for some ammunition of questionable use. You still need a way to propel them.

Maybe with Telekinesis (the spell) you could throw them for the original damage value. Getting to throw as many magical, silver, cold iron, and (at CL 15) adamantine projectiles as your level, each doing 4d6 is fairly good. Even missing half of the time it would still be 18-30d6 (36-60d6 before the misses), depending on CL.

Personally, I would say that they would deal only the normal damage for a hard, dense object, 1d6 x CL, so from 9d6 to 15d6, with several kinds of special damage that the spell normally lacks. In line with the damage aspected from a 5th level spell.

Mending is a strange spell. If you want to be realistic you need to cast it immediately where the item was broken. Unless you have a very clean break gathering all the pieces of an item is difficult. As it has a range of 10' I feel that it would gather all the pieces that are in range, so avoiding the risk of missing something. But if you try to gather the pieces and bring them away to mend them later it is almost guaranteed that you would miss something and have some small gap in the repaired item.
In my current campaign, I have given the option to add the right kind material as component when mending an item to cover for the lack of small pieces. Doing that consumes material that is worth 1/100 of the item base value (not including the value of enchantments) and repairs all fissures and lack of material. But the current campaign I am GMing has a lot of home rules that I am trying.

You create a stone discus, which flies at an enemy. You can create one discus, plus one additional discus at 7th caster level and another at 11th. For each discus you create, you decide whether its edge is blunt (and deals bludgeoning damage) or sharp (and deals slashing damage). Each discus requires a ranged attack to hit and deals 4d6 points of damage. The discuses can be launched at more than one target, but all must be aimed at targets within 30 feet of each other and launched simultaneously.

At caster level 5th, the discuses count as magic and silver. At caster level 10th, they also count as cold iron. At caster level 15th, they also count as adamantine.

The spell is very specific that the discus is made out of stone. The wording of the spell backs this up, they are not silver, cold iron or adamantine they only count as those substances. This is similar to the wording on how a magic weapon with a high enough enchantment bonus overcomes DR. This indicates that the discus is magic when it is hits. Since it is an instant spell once it spell completes the magic is gone and the discus loses the ability to overcome DR.

thanks everyone for the quick responses...
I'll send this thread to my DM to rule on

you guys rock
pun intended :P

If I were going to make a ruling to slow the abuse. I’d say the discus doesn’t have a damage rating when not being used by the spell. So it’d be the same as throwing a rock at someone. If you turn the discus into something else then it’s no longer the discus and doesn’t have the special properties.

This is like the Iron Stake thing, isn't it? "Free" cold iron nails...

Except unlike Cold Iron, the stone doesn't have intrinsic value, so there's no wealth-breaking loop by setting up a self-resetting trap or at-will custom item to spam it out.

Given the limitations on Stone weapons ("Light and one-handed bludgeoning weapons, spears, axes, daggers, and arrowheads can all be made of stone."), it is of questionable utility to repurpose it as a melee weapon, except maybe for arming minions. The main utility it offers is for archers to bypass DR, and since archers are going to want to have a magic bow anyway, this trick mostly saves money on things like durable adamantine arrows, weapon blanches, etc.

OTOH, it takes a relatively high level to pull the trick off, or getting and using a scroll with a high CL and using that to make Durable stone arrows or the like.

Much more of an oddball secondary use for a spell than something that really has a lot of room for abuse.

the spell Stone Discus creates a discus(es){frisbee} of generic stone, same as Wall of Stone. When the spell is active the discuses 'count' as various materials to overcome DR and such, much in the way that Weapon Blanch does for the initial attack.
Sadly there's no ammo definition of a discus (other than chakram) so you could use them as stone{scroll down} chakram that are fragile, funky wall bricks, stone wagon wheels, tombstone markers, or ship ballast.... you'd need to enlarge a halfling for skipstones...