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blackbloodtroll's page

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber. Pathfinder Society Member. 25,938 posts. No reviews. 2 lists. 2 wishlists. 1 Pathfinder Society character.


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A number of my have gotten a bit muddy.

Time to rest, collect my thoughts, and my evidence.

I shall return.

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Shimesen wrote:
we are discussing Precise Strike, the swashbuckler deed.


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Wisdom adds twice to my Intimidate and Bluff, and once to my Stealth. Also, Perception, and eventually Initiative. It would be hard to lower that much.

I already have an okay number of skills, so I don't think a -1 will make that big a difference.

How high should I have my strength? I figure I would be more of a Debuffer, than a major damage dealer.

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Okay, it boils down to:

Does the FAQ cover just two-handed weapons, or any weapon that requires two hands to use?

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Krodjin wrote:
Then by all means please post these rules that would make it legal to TWF with a bow and UAS - because none of the rules I've found even imply that this would be legal.

None of the rules imply that it would not be legal either.

Your response is the same as saying "prove that a you can two-weapon fight with a Dagger and an unarmed strike!".

The rules don't go in to specifics, about that specific combination.

Instead, we have the two weapon fighting rules, that the combination of a Dagger and an unarmed strike, would fall under, even though it isn't specifically stated.

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Crap. I forgot Nets.

Anyways, I hope to focus on Demoralization, and have a bit of stealthiness to the PC. I also want to focus on a whip-like, or chain-like weapon.

I also like the Nightmare Scars feat, and would like to pick it up, eventually.

I don't need the PC to be super optimized, but viable, and with a little flexibility.

1 person marked this as a favorite.
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For the right price, and with DM approval, I see no reason why this isn't possible.

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Chess Pwn wrote:

Who cares about some "unwritten rule" if it's not a rule it's not a rule. SKR said that they have an "unwritten rule" to make their decisions but it's not a rule for us so it doesn't matter if it "breaks" it or not.

Why do you say the FAQ is only for THW? What part of the wording of the FAQ causes the use of a two-handed weapon make the off-hand unavailable to make any attacks

1) The unwritten rules are the entire base of the of the FAQ. I wish we didn't have to care.

2A) It specifically note two-handed weapons, and two-handed weapons only.

2B) That's exactly what I asked. It is vital to determining whether it applies here. For now, we only have unwritten rules.

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Discussed here, as well.

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Perhaps choose the Chain Fighter Alternate Racial Trait, and use Bludgeoner with a Heavy Flail?

It would be a stretch, flavor-wise, but could work.

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Marroar Gellantara wrote:
blackbloodtroll wrote:
Really, party synergy plays a big part.
How so? What are their synergistic differences?

I mean, in general.

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Really, party synergy plays a big part.

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

I am sure it has been said, but the rules on customs are only guidelines.

It goes on to note that abilities, and spell effect, and enchantments, should be carefully considered. A constant Bless effect, is not equal to a constant True Strike effect, even though they are both first level spells.

Also, it notes how to estimate these costs, and does not note it as a hard formula.

So, you have to compare this custom magic armor, to existing magic armors, and try to estimate an appropriate price.

The end price is subject to DM approval.

So, in theory, you could have a set of Mithral Celestial Plate armor, but you have to realize custom magic guidelines, are just that.


Too often I see PCs taking the formula for estimates, and forgetting that is all it is.

An estimate.

So, when it comes to custom magic items, a Mithral Celestial Plate armor, is no different than a Ring of Truestrike, in that they both need DM approval.

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Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Depends on the rest of the party.

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It only references two-handed weapons. Full stop.

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I had hoped to stick with the Whip.

Flavor reasons.

Should I hold off on Enforcer, until 5th, getting Weapon Focus(Whip) at first, and Whip Mastery at 3rd?

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I believe there is a feat, that allows you to deal Precision damage to objects.

I think it is Goblin only though.

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Well, immunity to critical hits, and immunity to Precision damage, is not the same thing.

Nevertheless, Objects, are immune to Precision damage.

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The Scorpion Whip can be used as a Whip, and deal nonlethal damage.

The PC is proficient with Whips, so that should fine, starting out.

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I don't have to argue for the FAQ to cover One-handed weapons wielded in two hands.

I already know the answer. You can't.

Now, if the Bow is not a two-handed weapon, covered by the FAQ, and it is not an One-handed weapon used in two-hands, covered by the unwritten rules noted by SKR, then what is the restriction?

Wielding a Bow does not require two hands, as nobody constantly holds a Bow, with two hands. It requires two hands to use.

This means a PC with Snap Shot, could use either a Bow attack, or a Gauntlet attack, for an AoO.

Either way, that here nor there.

It has been explained why an attack with a two-handed weapon, or one-handed weapon, makes your off-hand unavailable. The metaphorical hand, that is required to make an off-hand attack, is subsumed, by the extra effort used, represented in the additional x0.5 to damage.

This why you can wield a Longsword, and wield a Shield, then make an attack with your Longsword, and an off-hand attack with an unarmed strike.

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Terrain and weather really does make a difference.

Burning building, acid pits, stairs, ice, darkness, snowstorm, hail, fog, briar patch, etc.

You can also spice things up, with neat monster tricks.

We had our DM have a spectral Piper, surrounded by Burning Bloody Skeletons, that had their Deathless ability trigger 1d4 rounds, instead of 1hour, as long as the Piper played.

We had to come up with some interesting tactics, to defeat that challenge, and it seemed nearly TPK, until we started using better tactics.

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Chess Pwn wrote:

Now not using SKR's post or any unwritten rules, since I've said that those don't count or matter,
Can you two-weapon fight with a longsword wielded two hands and armor spikes according to the FAQ? why or why not?

Not known, unless you know why it makes your off-hand unavailable.

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Chess Pwn wrote:

Can you two-weapon fight with a longsword wielded two hands and armor spikes? why or why not?


As noted in the linked SKR post, such a combination breaks the unwritten rule, that you cannot gain more than x1.5 strength to damage.

Now, SKR goes on to note how this unwritten limitation can be surpassed, but your example is one of the examples he gave.

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I am building a Half-Orc Heretic Inquisitor of Lamashtu for PFS, and looking to get some advice.

Here is the current build:

Half-Orc Inquisitor:
Field Agent Atozan Botoku
Female Half-Orc Inquisitor 1 (Pathfinder RPG Advanced Player's Guide 38; Pathfinder RPG Ultimate Magic 0)
CN Medium humanoid (human, orc)
Init +1; Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Perception +8
AC 15, touch 11, flat-footed 14 (+4 armor, +1 Dex)
hp 10 (1d8+2)
Fort +6, Ref +3, Will +8
Speed 30 ft.
Melee cold iron spiked gauntlet +2 (1d4+2) and
. . scorpion whip +2 (1d4+2) and
. . shortspear +2 (1d6+2)
Ranged sling +1 (1d4+2)
Inquisitor Spells Known (CL 1st; concentration +5):
. . 1st (2/day)—divine favor, shield of faith
. . 0 (at will)—acid splash, detect magic, detect poison, sift{super}APG{/super}
. . Domain Heresy Inquisition
Str 15, Dex 12, Con 14, Int 8, Wis 18, Cha 8
Base Atk +0; CMB +2; CMD 13
Feats Enforcer[APG]
Traits brute, fate's favored
Skills Bluff +8, Intimidate +13, Knowledge (local) +2, Perception +8, Sense Motive +5, Spellcraft +3, Stealth +7; Racial Modifiers +2 Intimidate, +2 Knowledge (local)
Languages Common, Orc
SQ hide tracks, judgement 1/day, judgement of escape, orc blood, stern gaze
Combat Gear acid; Other Gear leather lamellar armor, cold iron spiked gauntlet, scorpion whip, shortspear, sling, sling bullets (10), backpack, masterwork, crowbar, grappling hook, hemp rope (50 ft.), survival kit, wooden unholy symbol (Lamashtu), 3 gp, 9 sp
Special Abilities
Brute You’re adept at frightening away people and gain a +2 trait bonus on Intimidate checks.
Darkvision (60 feet) You can see in the dark (black and white vision only).
Enforcer If you deal nonlethal damage with a melee weapon, make a free Intimidate check to demoralize.
Fate's Favored Increase luck bonuses by 1.
Hide Tracks (Ex) Creatures attempting to track you take a -5 penalty.
Inquisitor Domain (Heresy Inquisition)
Granted Powers:
Judgement (1/day) (Su) Variable bonuses increase as the combat continues.
Judgement of Profane Escape (Su) When hit foe with melee/ranged attack, can create diversion to hide.
Orc Blood Half-orcs count as both humans and orcs for any effect related to race.

Any thoughts?

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Well, for newbies, we usually make a few exceptions.

You could throw it in some random treasure.

Also, as a DM, you can change the flavor. Maybe have it be a monkey hand, or eagle's claw.

There is also the Cloak of the Hedge Wizard, which has other useful minor abilities.

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Chess Pwn wrote:
blackbloodtroll wrote:
Does the two-handed weapon attack subsume an off-hand attack, because it uses an additional actual hand, or an additional metaphorical hand of effort?
since it is using both actual hands it uses both metaphorical hands of effort.


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You are still saying that a Bow counts as a two-handed weapon, but only in regards to this FAQ.

You are also saying that the off-hand, is a real hand.

I say both of those assumptions, are debatable.

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Zilfrel Findadur wrote:
Is incredible how more than 75% of people went to the rules section, instead of helping the guy with creativity.

It makes sense.

You need to know if a build is legal, before you can give good advice on the build.

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Is the size limit removal for Taunt only for when you use Bluff instead of Intimidate?

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Whip, and Aldori Dueling Sword.

That's about it.

You miss out on two-handed weapon damage, as Slashing Grace works only when wielded in one hand.

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There is no indication of a change in speed.

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Daring Champion Cavalier opens up a lot of options.

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Does the two-handed weapon attack subsume an off-hand attack, because it uses an additional actual hand, or an additional metaphorical hand of effort?

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That would be under the assumption that it is an actual hand?

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A Half-Orc Empiricist Investigator sounds really cool.

Also, a Tiefling Stygian Slayer with Nightmare Fist sounds cool.

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That sounds great!

I would suggest she take the Combat Style Slayer Talent.

Those extra Archery feats will really help.

Also, if she is interested in using Mage Hand, the Hand of the Mage is a much better option, as it is At-Will, and allows her to nab the Slayer talents that will make her a better archer.

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

If we don't discuss why the limitation put forth exists, then we cannot have a full understanding if it applies to Bows.

Just as "one hand to use" does not equal "One-handed Weapon", neither does "two hands to use" equal "two handed weapon".

All we have, is that an attack with a two-handed weapon, subsumes a potential off-hand attack.

Other than that, which is actually in the rulebook, is that an off-hand attack, subsumes an off-hand attack.

We have nothing regarding Ranged weapons, that notes it does, or does not, subsume an off-hand attack, except when used to make an off-hand attack.

We have to go beyond the written rules, and the FAQ, to say that a Ranged attack, that requires two hands, is the same as a two-handed weapon attack, in that it subsumes a potential off-hand attack.

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Well, that would have to mean a Sword Cane Pistol, counts as a Sword Cane.

Even that is not fully clear.

I would like it to be, and would rule that it did in my game, but I just not sure if RAW fully agrees with me.

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If there was an additional FAQ in 3.5, that somehow disallows it, then apparently Jason Bulmahn doesn't know about it, because he specifically mentions the FAQ allowing it.

I am not "twisting words", and I am not being dishonest.

I truly believe in what I am saying, and I am getting really tired of the personal insults.

Seriously, quit it.

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Durngrun Stonebreaker wrote:
You keep claiming unwritten rules. I've used only written rules to explain my case and have not even cited the FAQ.

The Developers specifically noted unwritten rules. I did not make this up.

I have linked these posts before.

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Durngrun Stonebreaker wrote:
blackbloodtroll wrote:

In 3.5, there was a FAQ that specifically allowed it.

The wording for two-weapon fighting is identical in 3.5, and Pathfinder.

This is why "unwritten rules" were used as a reasoning for the FAQ.

This creates confusion, as we have to take from the FAQ, and judge if these "unwritten rules" cover both ranged, and melee.

After the 3.5 FAQ that disallowed it. Wonder why you never mention that?

Link to that additional 3.5 FAQ?

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

In 3.5, there was a FAQ that specifically allowed it.

The wording for two-weapon fighting is identical in 3.5, and Pathfinder.

This is why "unwritten rules" were used as a reasoning for the FAQ.

This creates confusion, as we have to take from the FAQ, and judge if these "unwritten rules" cover both ranged, and melee.

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Well, Flurry really is it's own thing.

You can Flurry with one two-handed weapon.

Not really a good example.:(

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Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Well, the reason there is no specific wording allowing Bow to be used with two-weapon fighting, is because there never was a restriction before.

RAW was altered.

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Tanganika wrote:

As I said, you need crusader's flurry and the flurry of blows class feature.

Two weapon fighting is a special full round action which requires you to have 2 hands using 2 different weapons to attack simultaneously. You cannot use it if both hands are being used to make any single attack in the sequence.

It's like this: I'm lvl 1 and have EWP bastard sword, TWF, and quick draw -- I can't make one attack with the bastard sword with both hands, then quick draw a dagger/other weapon/use my fist and get a second attack from TWF. This is identical to attacking with a bow, then trying to get an extra punch from TWF.

I could if I used 2 monk weapons as part of a flurry, because there's no one/two handedness to the mechanic.

Well, anyone can use two-weapon fighting to kick twice.

You would not even need the Improved Unarmed Strike, or Two-Weapon Fighting feat.

You would just have terrible penalties, and provoke, twice.

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Wayang Invulnerable Rager Urban Barbarian?

Look at these guys.

Creepy little buggers.

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Majuba wrote:
blackbloodtroll wrote:

A Rogue actually isn't that good at sniping, or even hiding.

You build it right, even a Raging Barbarian, is better at Sniping.

A raging barbarian can't even use the Stealth skill.

With this trait:

Pathfinder Chronicles: Faction Guide wrote:

Coherent Rage

Your determination allows you to hold onto a shred of your rational mind at all times.

Benefit: Select one of the following skills: Bluff, Escape Artist, Handle Animal, or Stealth.

You may use this skill normally while raging.

...or this feat:

Advanced Class Guide wrote:

Skilled Rager

With practice, you’ve mastered your rage to allow yourself more versatility.
Prerequisite: Rage class feature.
Benefit: Choose one Charisma-, Dexterity-, or Intelligence-based skill. While you are raging, you can use this skill.
Special: You can take this feat multiple times. Each time you do, it applies to a different skill.

...he can.

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber
Lord Silky wrote:
I'd say unless there is a game balance issue that if the DM was interested in allowing an off hand strike while holding a bow it should be allowed and adjucated per the unarmed strike rules. I'd say that it wasn't possible with an arrow nocked ( just me though). But my point is that if the DM and players can ageree to a fair method of allowing it. Then go for it. This kind a of stuff is why you have a game master. It says so right in the rule book. What other rule do you need?

It's not a game balance issue, but with things like PFS, you need a FAQ.

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Currently, there is a debate on whether the FAQ is restricted to Melee only.

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

You know who needs love?

The Skald.

Thunderstriker, Skald.

You know you want it.

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