Back when we had faction missions, I can't tell you how many times myself as a player have asked, and as a GM been asked, "Hey, is this right here that flower/animal/guy I'm looking for? Or is it something we will find later?" How are we supposed to know that Byron is the guy to ask for military aid? We only met him once, at the start of the scenario, and we never got the chance to interact with him alone and never saw him again.
The briefing which you so helpfully quoted, and which more than one player actually took notes on while it was being read (myself included) states that we are supposed to ask the father for military aid. The Father, not Byron, the father.
"Excuse me mayor, but even though it looks like you kidnapped your own daughter, and we're in the middle of foiling your plot, and going to have you arrested, we'd like to take a few minutes to tell you about the poor people of Mendev." Yeah, that would have gone over well.
Before we rescue the daughter, we have exactly noting to offer them in exchange for their aid. We are standing there with our hats one hand and a begging cup in the other. Once we have the daughter, we were told to leave and fully expected to be ambushed on the way out of town by the father and his goons.
There was no way for us to secure aid from the Eagle Knight because we were given no idea that he could provide it. After all, Maldris is an Eagle Knight isn't he? Why would we assume this guy has any more ability or desire to aid us than our own resident VC? I'm sorry if I didn't read the scenario writers mind enough to figure all this out beforehand. We, all six players, wrongfully assumed their would be someone else we could ask for military aid that wasn't corrupt. I actually thought we'd run into someone in the capital that would aid us.
And as to being a murder hobo? You are mistaken. We could have turned the daughter over to the alchemist, gone back to the dad and turned over all the evidence to him, shook hands, and left with the daughter situation being taken care of, a sizable donation to the Pathfinder Orphans of War fund, and a promise of military aid to be forethcoming. Let the woman rot in a Galten prison for all I care.
Three for three and we get our prestige, murder hobo FTW.
Peace, I'm out. <drops mic>
Maybe it was just the way things were interpreted, I felt like once we gave our introduction and announced our intentions, we were told not to do anything because the father had received the standard kidnappers note of "tell no one, ask for no help or she dies" and then we were summarily dismissed. In fact we were told to leave and the GM asked us if we were going to go gracefully or make a stink.
I didn't address the eagle knight at the initial meeting because again, we were told to make our introductions, rescue her, and then ask for aid.
I guess we screwed up by trying to follow our instructions and being the good guys.
Back to being a murder hobo it is.
Maybe I got the timing of the evidence of Bryton's involvement mixed up. It may have been revealed to us in the epilogue that he was in on the scheme to rig elections along with the father.
I suspected that he was involved as soon as we met him, since the father didn't want to say anything in front of him other than, "Don't go looking for my daughter." It seemed suspicious, but we didn't get to interact with him. He just stood there next to the mayor and said nothing. I didn't want to start questioning him in front of the father in case either was in on the scheme. We asked if he was leaving anytime soon and we were told no, he was going to hang out at the mansion. We had no opportunity to speak with either of them alone, which is rule number one when conducting interviews. Separate the suspects and then check their stories against each other.
We were not discouraged to go talk to him, since we had no idea where he was. The last we had heard, he was still at the mansion. Thalia made no suggestions. Once we presented the evidence to the sheriff, he told us to go to Almas with it.
In the briefing we were told to make our introduction, perform the rescue mission, and then ask for aid. There was no chance to ask for aid from anyone other than the daughter.
Jeff, the Eagle Knight never said one word to us at the mansion, pretty much just stood by and let the Mayor do all the talking. Not one word.
Mist, After we talked our way past the magus and found the letters he had after he left, we went to the alchemists shop and talked with her. The alchemist explained her offer and her involvement, and we let her talk all the way through her entire schpeel, even detailing the daughter's new life. A few members of the group were playing devil's advocate for the alchemist, and explained why being "kidnapped" would actually work out better for the daughter in the long run, as well as how it would help the Pathfinders. But when the rubber hit the road and she refused to go along with the scheme, my paladin and the LG oracle said, "No, if she doesn't WANT to go, then she's not going, and we are not giving her over to be taken against her will, we are leaving with her to take the evidence we have to the sheriff." That is what triggered the alchemists fight.
After the fight, we found even more evidence linking her father, as well as the eagle knight, to the kidnapping and the alchemist was still alive. So we took her, all the evidence that we had found from the other encounters, and her apprentice, down to the jail and dumped it all in front of the sheriff. After he saw everything, he told us the only thing we could do now, since everyone in charge here was dirty, was go to the ombudsman in Almas and present our evidence to the court. He would keep the alchemist under lock and key until a trial could be arraigned. So we hit the road since that's what we were told to do.
The daughter was very polite to us and didn't try to boss us around at any time, she was very adamant about accompanying us to the alchemist and sheriff, but otherwise went along with the groups decisions because apparently we were doing what she wanted.
Just played this and was very disappointed by losing out on the second prestige point because we did the "good" thing by helping the daughter and turning her father over to the authorities.
After the alchemist fight, we never ran into the Eagle Knight again to gain the opportunity to ask him for help. The GM let it slip that the father was evil and very connected, he'd arraigned the kidnapping for crying out loud. So we figured we'd better get out of town with the daughter while the getting was good, lest we be pitted against the entire town militia, more mercenaries, or whatever. It really felt like it was the only sane choice.
Once we told the GM we were leaving town with the girl, that ended the scenario and our chances to gain our second prestige point. I really feel let down in that there was no way to encounter the eagle knight other than at the father's mansion, no chance to run into him in Almas, nothing.
I was wondering if I could get a list of all the brick and mortar retailers in my state (Minnesota) and the neighboring ones (Wisconsin, Iowa, Dakotas) that stock Pathfinder.
I am desperately trying to find an out of print Pathfinder book and am calling everyone with driving distance that I know about. I was hoping you might be able to help me with the ones I don't know about.
Potion of Air Bubble (for water)
Spring Loaded Wrist Sheath
I will pass on this product even though I am planning to run this AP early next year. The maps offered do not seem to be of much use when I already have most of them, or acceptable substitutes that I could even draw myself.
No, what I needed this to be was a folio containing PDFs of all the maps from the AP with the notes for the DM removed. Something I could access so I could print out the AP's maps without having to go into Photoshop or MS Paint and modify them so the players wouldn't get giveaway clues when I lay them out on the tabletop (electronic or otherwise).
I don't understand why the AP's can't follow the example set by the PFS scenarios. With those maps it's as simple as clicking on the image in the PDF (which then highlights), copy, open MS Paint, Paste, and done. The map copies without any of the traps, room numbers, or "place badguys here" icons on it. It becomes something that you can simply adjust the size of for scale and hit "print".
This is the first Paizo AP I will be running, so I don't know what the past APs have done. It seems silly that PFS can figure out how to format things for ease of use, but the AP staff can't?
Disappointing, and a lot more work for me.
P.S. If you have some technical tips that would help with this problem, please share them and I will take it all back.
I'm going to be running this in a few weeks too, I can already tell it's going to be a cake walk and am not looking forward to a challenge-less scenario.
The shadowy illumination conditions (What is Shadowy Illumination anyway? Does it differ somehow from Dim Light?) being negated by a torch, lantern, or sunrod is just wrong. The text on the shadow plane;
Gamemastery Guide wrote:
• Impeded Magic: Spells with the light descriptor or that use or generate light or fire are impeded on the Shadow Plane. Spells that produce light are less effective in general, because all light sources have their ranges halved on the Shadow Plane.
I think this should be the case for any mundane lighting in the museum. A torch would give you a 10' radius of normal light, a sunrod 15', and everything past that is dim. I realize that this is a conjuncture of the planes, but without the darkness to help them, these fetchlings are going to be just speedbumps.
The tactics for some of these bad guys are just silly. The guards with alchemists fire, liquid ice, and slings don't even use them from the darkness before rushing into battle? The alchemist attacks in melee and only retreats up the wall to throw bombs after they've been beat up? The monk doesn't climb onto the pyramid using acrobatics to avoid being flanked?
It's like you're throwing away the only tactics that would make this an actual challenge.
I like the ideas of having the invisible alchemist questioning the PCs from the ceiling in a creepy voice and trying to convince them to leave peacefully (even though we all know that's not going to happen), then bombing them and going melee as a last resort.
I like the idea of the fetchling guards sniping from the darkness and only going to melee when cornered. I mean seriously, tier 1-2 is two guys with AC 14 and 8 hp. Seriously. Against a party of 6. They charge. Seriously?
I like the idea of Uthil Mak using the oil of Shield of Faith as the PC's stand outside the door if he heard the shadow hound baying earlier. Then stashing one daughter behind the pyramid, and using disguise self to make himself look like one of the Blackros daughters on top of the pyramid ready to be sacrificed, and using a readied action to trip or stunning fist any PC that comes to help him. Then using his Ki and height advantage to give him an AC 23 and +1 bonus to hit while he balances atop the pyramid. He might actually last more than 3 rounds that way......
P.S. Has anyone else thought that pyramid is too tiny to be 10' high? I mean, at 2x2 squares, it's more like an obelisk. Shouldn't it be 4x4 squares so you can step over 5' and up 5'? With the 4 squares in the middle being 10 ft off the ground to give you the "central dais"? I wonder if the mapmaker made an error?
I was thinking of a new armor ability to help high dex characters, the costs are such due to the fact that the player has already probably spent gold on dex boosting items.
By adding this ability to a suit of magic armor, you increase it's maximum dexterity bonus. The magic makes the armor bend and flow with you, but still retain it's defensive abilities against attacks.
Lesser Flexibility: +1,000 GP, Increases Max Dex by +1
Head's up guys, 30 years after one of the first anime's out there, and it's follow up RPG, we finally get the miniature game.
I know a lot of us enjoy different games, and I'm looking forward to enjoying this one with some of you.
Heck, once it goes live, I'm sure we may even see it in the Paizo store.
So, how about a Summoner/Diabolist? They have an Eidolon and an Imp companion, does that break the rules?
Both level up and are quite nasty in combat, the imp more than you would think.
Players are going to focus on the last sentence, but does that override the first sentence?
Among the Living was a scenario I was worried about when I brought my gnome cavalier and his wolf mount.
I heard that it was taking place in an opera house, so I was trying to figure out how I would be able to get him out of whatever nearby stable I would have to put him in once the scenario started.
Thankfully, the GM handwaved me getting him into the bar before the show, since there really aren't any guards at that door (they want the public to come in and drink after all).
Once he was in, all it took was a quick Intimidate check on an usher to let him sit with me under my seat once they opened the doors for seating.
When I ran this, I didn't have any players with animal companions or the like, but when I saw that the exterior doors would be sealed I resolved to let anyone with one have them inside the building. My plan was to have the animal tied up over in the actors, or service entrance, and that after the initial fight, they would be able to get to them.
My point is, that if it's at all possible, be mindful of players with animal companions and such, and see if you can't figure out how to accommodate them. Even if it stretches logic a little.
You know what might work better is if instead of immediately counterspelling or dispelling each other, the light and darkness spells of greater level suppress those of a lower level, and equal level spells merely suppress each other, until one expires or the area of effect separates.
That way you don't lose your permanent spell that you paid for due to a short contact with a free darkness spell.
So to sum up:
Light and Dancing Lights are suppressed by all darkness spells.
Continual Flame (This makes a blanket assumption that the Continual Flame was cast by a wizard) is suppressed by Blacklight and Deeper Darkness, and both Darkness and Continual Flame suppress each other.
Daylight suppresses Darkness, and both Black Light and Deeper Darkness suppress Daylight and are suppressed in turn.
The only wrinkle is the wording of the effect when the spells area of effect overlaps, would you want to have only the area of the spell overlapping be suppressed, or once they touch, both entire areas are?
I think this type of rational is the only logical way of dealing with magical darkness and light (wait, did I just say that?). It gives a clear set of guidelines for everyone and throws the nonsense of the whole Heightened Spell argument out the window.
You want to make a fair set of rules, with reasonable workarounds and counters to the attacks that the players will be facing, and I think this achieves that without forcing the players into unreasonable levels of preparation.
If you think this makes sense, favorite this post or mark it for the FAQ.
So either the rules on the interaction of light/darkness spells are literally self-contradictory
Yes, they are. I would say these two sentences directly contradict each other.
Magical light sources only increase the light level in an area if they are of a higher spell level than darkness.
Continual Flame wrote:
Light spells counter and dispel darkness spells of an equal or lower level.
So which is which? Let's look at the wording in all the light and darkness Spells.
Light can be used to counter or dispel any darkness spell of equal or lower spell level.
Continual Flame wrote:
Light spells counter and dispel darkness spells of an equal or lower level.
Daylight counters or dispels any darkness spell of equal or lower level, such as darkness.
Darkness can be used to counter or dispel any light spell of equal or lower spell level.
Deeper Darkness wrote:
Deeper darkness can be used to counter or dispel any light spell of equal or lower spell level.
Blacklight counters or dispels any light spell of equal or lower level. Daylight counters or dispels blacklight.
From what I understand of your argument, you're saying that the one sentence in Darkness trumps all the rest of the spell descriptions?
Let's see if I can work this out by example:
You're saying that if I'm walking along with my 2nd level continual flame tucked away, and someone casts darkness on a pebble at my feet, I'm still in the dark once I pull it out.
Now if I'm walking along with the light out and waving it around, the baddie has two choices, he can either cast darkness on it and dispel it, returning us to normal light levels, or he can cast darkness on the pebble at my feet and I'm in the darkness.
Same thing applies if I'm walking along with my Daylight or 3rd level Cont. Flame either tucked away or out, once someone casts deeper darkness, I'm in the dark because that one sentence trumps all the other spell descriptions?
I don't think that's what the game designers had in mind, but right now if we follow Jiggy's line of reason, Darkness trumps all.
Now lets talk about the whole counter and dispel thing. The wording for some of the spells is different. Did you notice how each spell except Continual Flame, Daylight, and Blacklight say that they "can be used" whilst these spells simply say "dispels"? Does that mean that you have to act as Jiggy suggested and actively target the opposing spell with a new casting for anything other than CF, DL, or BL, while the effects of those two spells automatically do it for you?
Both light and dark spells have this wording, I'm just going to use two:
If daylight is cast on a small object that is then placed inside or under a light-proof covering, the spell's effects are blocked until the covering is removed.
If darkness is cast on a small object that is then placed inside or under a lightproof covering, the spell's effect is blocked until the covering is removed.
So the effect is blocked until it's uncovered, which means that right now, if a CF, DL, or BL spell is brought into an opposing spells area and uncovered, it immediately counters and dispels it. But nothing else does that. Does that make sense?
So, where do we go from here?
My humble suggestion would be an errata on the wordings of all these spells to make them universal and describe how these spells effect each other. My thoughts go like this:
A light or darkness spell is immediately dispelled by a higher level spell.
A light or darkness spell is immediately counterspelled by an equal level spell.
This effect takes place whenever these two opposing spells areas of effect meet.
And can we please just make continual flame count as either a second or third level spell for this effect? It's a pain for some people to figure out what level it is when it's an Ioun Torch, Everburning Torch, or monster's spell like ability.
Here's how things went down when I ran this scenario and I'm the evil fiend who killed Jiggy.
Our party build up consisted of Jiggy's Eldritch Knight, a kickass monk played by his brother, and the 7th level pregens Merrisel, Ezren, and Kyra.
The characters encounter the deva at the entrance and it gives its challenge. They counter by talking to it and telling it that they aren't the tomb robbers it's looking for. I put the GM screen aside for a second and tell them that they will have to make a very high Diplomacy check to bypass this guy. They need to decide who has the best score, roll the assists, and make a Diplomacy roll.
At this point I look back at the scenario and what it says about the angels binding argeement.
This is what I have to work with:
the Refuge of Time wrote:
So they've blown the Diplomacy roll, but I figure that with some real life roleplaying, I'll let them walk past. If they can just convince the angel that they aren't tomb robbers......
The characters start asking the angel questions, asking what it has agreed to, invite it to detect evil on them, and start to try to get a feel for what will trigger the angel letting them pass.
One of the characters hits on the idea of his faction mission and he tells the angel that he is searching for a merchant he is afraid has been kidnapped and he believes that merchant to be inside the shrine, may he enter and look for this person? The angel knows that there are people inside the shrine, so it makes him submit to the strip and detect lie, and then lets him pass.
The rest of the characters follow suite except for the monk, who at one point says to the angel that he just wants to go inside and take out the tokens. I did my best not to facepalm as the Deva raised his sword and said, "You are a thief and may not pass." The player quickly backpeddled, stripped, submitted to the spell, and promised that he would not take anything out of the shrine (unspoken was the fact that he didn't need too if his friends did) and the angel let him pass. Jiggy was the last one in and finally came up with the correct wording to satisfy the Deva and that was the end of the encounter. They blew the Diplomacy but after I managed to get some roleplay out of them, they were allowed entry.
It took quite a while and Jiggy is right, even if they Dip check their way past the guy, he doesn't leave, he's still out their protecting the place from tomb robbers.
One GM I talked to said that he allowed his group to use Dispel Magic to break the Planar Binding. I know this doesn't work since Planar Binding is an Instantaneous Duration Spell and:
Dispel Magis wrote:
The effect of a spell with an instantaneous duration can't be dispelled, because the magical effect is already over before the dispel magic can take effect.
You could potentially use Dismissal on him, but how many players walk around with that prepared?
So the group walks in and starts talking to the prisoners, getting information and doing faction stuff. Then they walk around to the statue, look at it, fail their spellcraft rolls, and decide not to touch it. In hindsight I should have docked them the GP value of not securing the items, but by the time we were done playing, I simply forgot.
They cant budge the old main entrance, but after chipping a chunk of the door out with an adamantine sword and seeing that it's caved in mostly, they leave it be.
So the next thing that happens is that the monk walks into the room with the shadow and they start dancing. You have never seen a more frustrated undead as the monks touch AC was so high that it didn't score a single hit has he beat it to "death" with his magical fists.
The next room up was the chapel and in goes the monk again. Initiative time. The graveknight wins and charges the monk for a ton of damage. The cleric opens up her spell selection with bless, while the monk barely 5 feet from her is bleeding out of two new holes and pleading to be healed. Sorry monk, this was what I planned to cast she says. LOL The fight takes a good deal of time but they manage to finally bring the GK down with no casualties, even though at one point Ezren pulled out his crossbow. I never knew how much following step could be.
The final room awaits, the party heals up while the wizard starts buffing, and it's go time.
The battle that follows is one of the longest I have ever GMed and was utterly brutal. The stinking clouds, the nausea, the party retreating, the wizard Dimensonal stepping after them, the rogue sneaking around invisibly, the fiendish bison charging and stomping people into the ground, the sinspawn who didn't want to move, and the acid, OMG the acid!
Something that I am going to note here that during this battle, not one, but TWO party members retreated out to the angel and started begging him to help them. I'm sitting there behind the screen thinking, "OK what now smart guy? They've just brought the angel back into the game." The angel stares at them, shrugs, and heals them up. When they keep pestering him, he gives them both the Aid spell, and tells them that is all he can do.
As the fight rages on, the Monk got KOed, Ezren died, the cleric got KOed, Merrisel died, and Jiggy is on his own. For the next 10 rounds or more, he solos against the wizard and his chums. He and the wizard seperate due to another dimensional step, Jiggy buffs back up, infernal healing, haste, fly, and goes wizard hunting again. Wizard is down to a few spells and his acid darts. The wizard then dimensional steps away from the flying superspeed sword of death and back out to the entryway.
The final moments are upon us as Jiggy comes barreling back out and the wizard casts around for some last ditch way to save his skin and spots...
With a blood flecked scream he commands the angel to protect him from this tomb robber. The angel sighs, shrugs, and flys up to meet Jiggy. At this point I'm going to have the angel use a slam or some other minor ability to fend him off but thats when the angel sees he's radiating evil. The angel doesn't have detect magic and is now assuming he's been duped somehow. Out comes the flaming greatsword. At this point Jiggy is desperately trying to maneuver around the angel and finish the wizard off. He and the angel are flying around eachother and the wizard, tired of this ariel dance, floats back and commands the angel to strip him of his enchantments. One Antimagic field later Jiggy is laying prone looking up at the flying wizard and angels flapping wings.
The wizard, bloody, near death, and entirely sick of this nonesense, offers to let Jiggy leave in peace if he will surrender.
Jiggy answers him by casting Dimension Door and teleporting into the small caved in entryway that they had chipped a crack into while investigating the shrine earlier. That is the last straw for the wizard, he kills the KOed Kyra with an acid dart, screams for the slothspawn in the other room to kill the KOed monk (which he does) and tells the angel to find jiggy and finish him.
The angel has a 50/50 chance now to go one way or the other, if he floats toward the statue and the entrance, he'll see the crack and find Jiggy. If he floats the other way into the chapel, Jiggy may have a few rounds to pull himself together. Unfortunately the dice were not with him as the angel flys over to the crack, peers inside with his darkvison, sees Jiggy, and with an "I'm sorry", kills him with a holy smite.
I find myself agreeing with Jiggy though, it's best just to kill the angel right away and get it over with. Any time you are playing on a small map like this where the encounters could run together, it's best to have a SWAT team mentality. Sweep and clear everything, secure everyone you find so that they can't sneak up on you later, and move to the next area. When in doubt, take it out.
This was my first ever TPK in PFS, I think it was a very challenging scenario and I'd be happy to run it again anytime.
One thing to point out is that if you "follow the money" so to speak then the chief suspect is Asmodeus as he has gained the most from Aroden's death and has previously killed a god. Another (albeit unlikely) suspect is Tar Baphon, the Whispering Tyrant as he hates Aroden more than anyone.
Gained the most? What about Iomadae?
Wouldn't that be a twist if she cut a deal with Asmodeus to kill Aroden and assume his powers?
With none the wiser........
Michael Brock wrote:
As I mentioned in my reply to your email last night, it isnt grandfathered in. It starts from yesterday forward.
Sorry, I'm writing this from work, didn't have time to check my email at home before I had to come in this morning.
On the plus side, it let's everyone else know your answer if they also had this particular question.
Mike already said he was going to address it, so it's really not necessary for you to understand anything until he clarifies it. This issue has been argued over in other threads, so there's really no need to clog up this one with any of the controversy there.
All I wanted to do was bring it up to Mike that this is still a point of contention with people who play wizards, and he said he would post something on it.
That should have been the end of it. If you had wanted clarification, you've got my email. I would have happily pointed you back to the threads that we have already hashed it over in. Now we have another 15 posts on an issue THAT HE ALREADY SAID HE WOULD ADDRESS.
gustavo iglesias wrote:
In my current campaign, I'm going to make craftting magic items to cost as much as buying magic items (ie, no half cost). The difference is that, when you build it yourself, you can custom it, and you can build what you want, instead of going to the town and see what's randomly rolled there to be sold. Let's see how it works :)
If I were playing the wizard in your campaign, I would never take any item creation feats if you were going to rip out the benefit of reduced cost. Never. Wizards are feat starved as is, there is no way I would waste one on something you had gutted.
I would instead hire a fellow wizard to craft things for me, it may be more difficult and time consuming, but I know as a player,the degree of difficulty and how time consuming it is is an aribtrary thing left up almost entirely to my DM. I.E. You can dick me around and waste game time making me find and negiotate with other wizards rather than have the party adventuring, but that's up to you.
In the tradition of the Great Dennis Leary;
One word, "Fabricate".
The way the feat is written, they lose the option to simply step aside. If you lose the CMB roll, you stop in the square you are in, and can't continue. Seems like there might be times, say if you are charging a giant, where it would be advantageous not to have to make the CMB roll.
Just like it would be advantageous not to have to rush the spell if you don't feel the need.
I was wondering if either of the following conditions effect your CMB or CMD.
To me, it has always seemed that feats were meant to provide extra benefits for your characters, and that using them was a choice, such as adding metamagic feats to spells.
But some feats can adversly affect a character as well, and it is in this situation that I wanted to know whether or not the player has a choice whether or not to use it.
One feat in particular is the Acadamae Graduate feat.
The working seems to imply that is it "always on", but does it feel right to require you to use it every time you cast a conjuration summoning spell? Or can you opt not to and instead cast the summons as normal?