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Scenarios are not sold in print. They exist not just as PDFs, but ONLY as PDFs. Many of the constraints of print that make it harder to get into DMing and more difficult to run a game but there's no discernible reason for that to be the case.
- Give me the stat blocks
On a gaming table, I have the scenario, a bunch of minis, a pizza, dice, soda, markers, minis, pens, pencils, paper for initiative, minis, rulebooks and dice. The second to thing i want is to add a bestiary or two to the juggling act of things in front of me.
The absolute last thing I want to do is to have to template the monsters manually on a sheet of paper that's going to vanish into my geek bag along with Jimmy Hoffa. Its not just the time that this saves prepping but how much easier to run when I don't need to switch between telling the story and fighting the monster. Less work for DMs= More Dms.
- Give me the stat blocks on one page
In destiny of the sands 3, between the stat block, a picture, and a map someone/thing's stat block is spread out over three pages. Thats a lot of flipping back and forth to do during a fight scene.
But people DO print these things out...
-Yes they do. But currently they usually also print something off of the shared GM Prep Drive or the monsters off of the SRD. Making the scenario 3 pages shorter means i need to print out 4 more pages of stuff.
Dare to cut loose your earthly bonds and soar
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I'm pretty sure the word count has to do with that I think they pay per word, not per scenario. So the budget is based on word count.
If not, then you are right. There isn't a reason not to include stat blocks.
Mark once explained that the reason stat blocks are done per encounter is that they want to maintain the same format they use for APs and Modules. The idea is if the stat blocks are with the encounter it is easier.
This of course in practice is not true. Especially when they refer me 10 pages previously for the stat block I need now.
I will sign this petition.
To be honest? This sounds like the sort of thing someone with wiki skills and a lot of time could do. Its a lot of work but there are people who lioe doing that sort of thing. Provided it didn't break any copywright or ofa rules.
I am for this, it is the kind of thing fans could do, but if it was official everyone would make use of it and be better off.
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I used to DM 4e LFR games. It was easy to feel like there was a significant age difference between LFR and PFS. I almost felt embarrassed running LFR games, as if I was a man in his 40's playing a kid's game.
I think most of it was due to how the adventures were laid out and the overriding uniformity of everything.
However, I also got spoiled with LFR adventures. Even the format of the adventures was uniform, simple, and a breeze to use at the table. Every sub-tier for every encounter was on a separate page. You just pulled out that page and you had everything you needed to run the encounter - well okay, the map (with indicators of where each creature started) immediately followed the stat blocks. A combat encounter was always formatted as 1-2 pages of intro text describing the area, any boxed text, adjustments for the number of players, treasure and developments. Then all the stat blocks, then the map.
It meant there were almost double the pages a regular PFS adventure took up, but everything was there, laid out to make things as easy as possible. I got spoiled.
My one consolation with the PFS layout is that is feels old school. Hard. Less slick, less modern. PFS modules feel a lot closer to AD&D (what I cut my teeth on) than LFR did.
I sign the petition.
It would be nice to have stat blocks for each encounter on separate pages.
It would be nice to have every non-standard creature stat'ed out. I am fine with creatures taken straight from the Bestiaries left as a simple page reference with hp. Even those that just list a few modifications are fine - though these have caused a significant bit of confusion to a lot of GMs if the changes are extensive enough that the entry looks like a complete stat block - only to find when it is time to run the creature that you are missing half of it's information.
It was a pleasure to run the Bonekeep adventures. Not because as a GM I got to decimate the party, but because all the creatures were fully stat'ed. Bravo Mr. Buhlman!
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I've been wanting this for ages, and I've said in several past threads that I'd go to the trouble to provide a full example layout if I thought there was any interest at Paizo in this. It wouldn't be hard to adapt a current scenario into a newer style layout.
That GM Shared Prep drive doesn't really have to exist - the goods it provides can fairly easily be made the standard.
Venture-Agent, Colorado—Denver
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They did lessen the scenarios to only two tiers. So, yeah, they should put all the stat blocks for uncommon things, and maps, in one section (the back). I don't mind using an index card for a skeleton or goblin but when there are maps or other bits separating a stat block, that is annoying.
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If cost is an issue, it should be pretty easy in development to copypasta the stat blocks, assuming they use an existing creature. Adding a template always takes a bit of tine, but even then it shouldn't be more than 20 minutes to whip it out. Any NPCs or unique creatures will already have full stats anyways.
The only possible, slight) downside would be that less GM's buy the Bestiaries.
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Regional Venture-Coordinator, Baltic
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I use Combat Manager to create stat blocks for unstatted creatures or use the GM shared prep folder.
I copy, paste (or google search something appropriate if not available) and print the images from the scenario and/or the appropriate bestiaries to create handouts to show the players what they are fighting (Players tend to subconsciously read the name of the monster if you show the page in the bestiary).
I too would appreciate it all of the stat blocks were in the scenario.
For the argument about increased cost due to word count, wouldn't it make sense if the authors kept turning in their submissions with the creature name and hp entry, and the Paizo PFS layout group copy and paste in the full stats?
Venture-Lieutenant, Indiana—Indianapolis
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I go back and forth on this.
Yes, at times, I think it would be great to have all the stat blocks there, so I would have everything I need at my fingertips (like Don, I ran LFR 4e, and every monster was included in each adventure, for every possible level band.)
And then, at times, I think, "well, you know, I don't really need all that stuff - I like my monsters in a particular format, with more info than is included in the stat blocks." So, for me, even if stat blocks were included, it wouldn't be sufficient for me - I'd still want extra details (I use stat blocks, where I insert the text/mechanics of feats, powers, and traits that I don't readily know - that way, I don't have to look them up during the game, I have them right there in front of me.)
So, in the end, I'll say I'm neutral on this - neither remaining the same nor including the stat blocks changes anything for me - I'd still make my combat sheets as a I always do.
YMMV.
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I would like to see stat blocks for all creatures included in the scenario. I use the blocks from the GM shared prep, and have whichever bestiary is required handy, but having a single sheet to refer to during a fight is much handier than flipping across two-three pages to find the particular line from the stat block I need.
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If it wasn't for the shared GM prep, i would probably need twice the amount of time preparing a scenario.
If it is possible to do for people in their free time from openly available resources, why can't it be possible for Paizo to have an automatically generating Monster DB with the stat blocks printed at the end of the scenario.
Having to go through breaks in stat-blocks or having to flip through the pages to find the stat block from 10 pages back has made me forget or not see parts of a monsters morale, abilities or similar.
This should be made the standard. Because the easier it is on the GM, the more GM's there will be and the more people will play PFS.
+1!
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The only possible, slight) downside would be that less GM's buy the Bestiaries.
Not really. All the information is already available in the PRD. If a GM can't afford the Bestiaries, they would just use the online information anyhow.
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Venture-Lieutenant, Florida—Melbourne
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I would love this also. However, having written adventures as a paid author for a different company I suspect Andrew is right and that it has to do with word count, either because authors are paid by the word or because they are given a flat-fee with a maximum word count
I too use the Google Shared GM prep.
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I agree to the notion as well.
While I agree with Mark Stratton, that a statblock in itself is not always enough, looking up a specific (obscure) monster ability is fine by me.
Looking up a creature, potentially applying a template (that you have to have looked up as well), AND looking up the above-mentioned ability (which might refer to some other place entirely) is an entirely different amount of effort.
That is especially true if there are a lot of them, as in #5-08 (Confirmation), which by the way ranks very high in the list of modules that NEW GMs (who probably take far more time for that anyway) might run.
As it stands, this effort is done by the GM, or by those awesome guys who fill the shared GM-Prep folders (kudos to you, btw!).
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Venture-Lieutenant, Indiana—Indianapolis
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Not including the full stat blocks of monsters in the scenario is incredibly discourteous to the GMs who volunteer their time to make sure PFS keeps on running. PFS is the only Living Campaign I have ever encountered that doesn't provide full stat blocks, and reflects very unprofessionally on the campaign.
I don't agree that it is "discourteous to the GMs", to do I think it reflects "unprofessionally" on the campaign.
Yes, GMs are volunteers, and as such, Paizo ought to be appreciative of that fact. And they are. The GM star system is one step in the right direction (bonuses on re-rolls plus replays, though I think the replay system may need some adjustment.)
Everything the GM needs for stat blocks is available for free online. Now, if that weren't the case, if they made GMs pay for that stuff, I would be entirely on the same page as you. But, it's free, so it only requires a bit of effort on our part.
But, as I said earlier, if they include it or not, it doesn't change at all my GM experience - I'll still print out the stuff from the PRD with whatever notes and stuff I need (I hate looking stuff up during game unless I have to.)
I am certainly not opposing this effort - I think for many GMs this is probably the way to go, but I'm just going to take the middle ground because, for me, nothing changes either way.
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The more time I spend on creating stat blocks or reading up on specific monster abilities, decreases the amount of time I have to spend on creating maps, custom terrain or general preparation. I recently ran a season 2 scenario, I have ran it 2 other times at this point. I think I still put in about 10 hours of prep time on it.
There is so many other things to consider other that a monster's stat block.
Finding out specific skill check DC, DC's for items. Creating play hand-outs. Looking up an items hardness and HP. Thinking of monsters tactics.
Just general presentation takes allot of time. Of course I try to cover and consider allot of things that aren't really presented in a scenario. Will there be flying, light and heat terrain. Will this NPC use Power attack, what is his morale, languages.
Now consider how many hours are needed for all volunteers to prepare one scenario's stat-blocks. Then consider how much better these hours may be spent if all the volunteers used this time to prepare to present a scenario.
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It's not the missing stat blocks that I have a problem with, it's the change in format of the maps.
I used to be able to click on the map in the older pdfs, copy, open MS paint, and paste it there.
It would show up without any of the map icons, room numbers, "S" for secret door symbols, and highlighted trap areas.
Ever since season 4, this layering effect was changed so that now, if I want to print out and use the nice map in the scenario, I have to spend all kinds of time editing it to remove those symbols becuase the cut and paste method doesnt work to strip out all the "GM Only" symbols. Most of the time I cant do a convincing job and wind up just drawing lines on graph paper.
Seems a shame to include a nice map that only I as the GM can see.
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Venture-Lieutenant, Indiana—Indianapolis
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I'd normally be with you. Given advanced warning, I usually spend 2-3 hours prepping any scenario I'm going to run. Though a lot of that prep work would not be needed with full statblocks in the scenarios. But I'm also usually the guy who steps up to GM something cold when we're having trouble finding something that the people who showed up haven't played. This happens a lot more often at Conventions. Having all the information you need to run the scenario in the actual scenario should be the bare minimum for a campaign with volunteer GMs.
You know, you do raise a good point here that I had not considered: the GM who has to run something cold, or at the last minute. That does change things a bit, I think.
I never run cold (though, I haven't been asked to, either.)
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Venture-Lieutenant, Indiana—Indianapolis
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It's not the missing stat blocks that I have a problem with, it's the change in format of the maps.
I used to be able to click on the map in the older pdfs, copy, open MS paint, and paste it there.
It would show up without any of the map icons, room numbers, "S" for secret door symbols, and highlighted trap areas.
Ever since season 4, this layering effect was changed so that now, if I want to print out and use the nice map in the scenario, I have to spend all kinds of time editing it to remove those symbols becuase the cut and paste method doesnt work to strip out all the "GM Only" symbols. Most of the time I cant do a convincing job and wind up just drawing lines on graph paper.
Seems a shame to include a nice map that only I as the GM can see.
I don't have this problem. I click on the map, and choose SAVE PICTURE As or whatever, save it, then open it in whatever program I need. I don't have to edit it other than to resize it. I've done that with many season 4 and 5 scenarios. It saves it without the notations, though I have found a couple of scenarios where the "S" for secret door was still embedded.
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It's not the missing stat blocks that I have a problem with, it's the change in format of the maps.
I used to be able to click on the map in the older pdfs, copy, open MS paint, and paste it there.
It would show up without any of the map icons, room numbers, "S" for secret door symbols, and highlighted trap areas.
Ever since season 4, this layering effect was changed so that now, if I want to print out and use the nice map in the scenario, I have to spend all kinds of time editing it to remove those symbols becuase the cut and paste method doesnt work to strip out all the "GM Only" symbols. Most of the time I cant do a convincing job and wind up just drawing lines on graph paper.
Seems a shame to include a nice map that only I as the GM can see.
I have not had this layering problem at all. But then I just us acrobat to create another PDF from the clipboard.
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Venture-Lieutenant, Indiana—Indianapolis
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I wish the chronicle sheet was unlocked so I could just export that page (it would be far easier to have that option available for on-line play, where I can insert my digital signature, rather than printing it out, filling it out, and scanning it back in.) :)
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I don't have this problem. I click on the map, and choose SAVE PICTURE As or whatever, save it, then open it in whatever program I need. I don't have to edit it other than to resize it. I've done that with many season 4 and 5 scenarios. It saves it without the notations, though I have found a couple of scenarios where the "S" for secret door was still embedded.It's not the missing stat blocks that I have a problem with, it's the change in format of the maps.
I used to be able to click on the map in the older pdfs, copy, open MS paint, and paste it there.
It would show up without any of the map icons, room numbers, "S" for secret door symbols, and highlighted trap areas.
Ever since season 4, this layering effect was changed so that now, if I want to print out and use the nice map in the scenario, I have to spend all kinds of time editing it to remove those symbols becuase the cut and paste method doesnt work to strip out all the "GM Only" symbols. Most of the time I cant do a convincing job and wind up just drawing lines on graph paper.
Seems a shame to include a nice map that only I as the GM can see.
I do the same thing (only just control-c and paste directly into MS paint). The last map of 5-01 was particularly frustrating.
I'm not going to complain too much though. Its clear that they try to put the graphics and text on different layers which is very nice of them to do.
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I wish the chronicle sheet was unlocked so I could just export that page (it would be far easier to have that option available for on-line play, where I can insert my digital signature, rather than printing it out, filling it out, and scanning it back in.) :)
I use print screen, put it into paint, sign it/fill it out in paint
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Venture-Lieutenant, Indiana—Indianapolis
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I wish the chronicle sheet was unlocked so I could just export that page (it would be far easier to have that option available for on-line play, where I can insert my digital signature, rather than printing it out, filling it out, and scanning it back in.) :)I use print screen, put it into paint, sign it/fill it out in paint
I do that, too. It's just not as clean or elegant. :-D (I have done the print/fill/scan/email before, too.)
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Foxit PDF Printer will let you print the Chronicle sheet page as an image PDF, which is what I use.
How does that work? I've seen someone suggest that before but then someone else said that you can't do it in the newer versions.
Foxit also gives me weird errors when i try to copy/paste pictures or maps.
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I also want to cast my vote and say that it would be extremely nice to have all the stat blocks in a printable format at the very end of the scenario. I already do this using the GM prep files or do it myself if it's a newer scenario, but it would be nice to have everything already applied and ready to go. I don't mind looking up those obscure abilities since it helps me learn what to be ready for, but if it was formatted to show all the low tier stuff, then the high tier stuff, it would be great!
Also, as for the maps, I haven't had any problems with exporting the maps to be printable. I've had a few, like others have said, where a secret door still shows up, but that's the nature of the beast. As for computer specs, I use good ol' adobe reader to export my maps and Microsoft Publisher to resize and print. I like Foxit, but the weird error messages that BNW was talking about is the reason I stick with adobe.
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It's not paying the author for the word count, it's paying for the editors and layout time. As an author, I don't care either way. As a GM, it'd be nice to have all the stat blocks in the scenario and in an index, but I've been preaching that for years.
(FWIW, notice where a certain halfling's stat block is located)
Of course I can also bypass this a bit by choosing strange creatures from various softcover books. Oh man, these things are nasty...
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I wonder if it could be possible to just hire one person to create a PDF statblock that's downloadable from the page where the scenario is posted online.
Every two weeks, when a new scenario is released, you email it to him/her first the day before and they reply back with an extra document.
But, then again, that IS one more person on the payroll.