Mask of the Mantis

Viktyr Korimir's page

517 posts. Alias of Viktyr Gehrig.




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So... I've always hated the way multiclassing works in D&D 3.X and Pathfinder. I've been trying to fix it, nearly consistently, for the past fifteen years and I've gotten into a lot of stupid and pointless arguments with people who don't think it needs to be fixed.

Luckily, I am now in possession of Tipsy Tabby Publishing's Overhauling Multiclassing rules, which use a much more elegant implementation of fixed-progression Gestalt than my own-- you may select one secondary class, you take multiclass feats (with ability prerequisites a la 5e) to upgrade your chassis, and when you're at least 5th level with at least 2 multiclassing feats, you can take the Cross-Training feat that gives you all of the class features of your secondary class at your character level -4.

This is leagues better than the original system, and likewise leagues better than anything I ever came up with.

But there are still four major problems that I think can be improved, and that I'd like to address.


  1. Cost versus Benefit: Three feats for all of the class features of a secondary class just feels too good. Compare five feats for all of the "benefits" of Variant Multiclassing. Being multiclassed needs to detract something from the primary class, as well. (But my previous attempt to use Level Adjustment were awful.)
  2. Low Level Characters: You don't get any of the class features of your secondary class until 5th level. Many games don't even last that long.
  3. Triple-Class Characters: Not supported. This probably isn't much of a problem, because you can approximate most classic AD&D triples with the right Archetypes and Hybrids.
  4. Prestige Classes: Not supported, and this is the reason I'm starting this thread.

Cost Versus Benefit

I think I've got this one licked, as long as I don't try to implement Triple-Class characters. Also, for the record, I am an idiot sandwich. Pathfinder already has a mechanism for encouraging characters to stay single-class: Favored Class Bonuses. Single-class characters get Favored Class Bonuses; the level they take a multiclass feat, they stop.

Low-Level Characters

Just add a multiclass feat that grants the 1st-level features of the chosen class. This is your entry-level multiclass feat, overwritten by Cross-Training later.

Triple-Class Characters

I've got nothing, and I'm honestly half-convinced that I shouldn't even attempt this. On the other hand, I really want to.

Prestige Classes

This is a real sticking point because a lot of cool concepts in 3.X and PF are gated behind the Prestige Class system. Also, a lot of the later "multige" classes did unique things beyond just +1 spellcaster level/+1 spellcaster level that... should be available to multiclass characters in some capacity, but probably aren't worth a whole class with fixed progression.

And there's the rub: most Prestige Classes are obviously designed to replace the class features of the base class, not co-exist with them. +1 spellcaster level is only the most obvious example... but in a fixed progression game, it's meaningless. Easy enough to ignore, but suddenly a 5/10 casting PrC is the exact same as a 10/10 casting PrC.

I'm generally thinking that your first (and only) Prestige Class should just be "free": meet the prerequisites, choose it, and advance. Prestige Classes would not count against being single-classed for the purposes of FCBs. There's a part of me that wants to support having more than one Prestige Class, but I'm pretty sure that would lead to nothing but shenanigans and ruination.

So that's where I'm at. Any ideas?


So... with The Genius Guide to the Talented Paladin now released, there are only two Core classes-- Wizard and Sorcerer-- that haven't been given the Talented treatment. The Cavalier and the Witch from APG have also been covered.

To show Rogue Genius Games our appreciation of their prior efforts, and our desire for more of the same... I thought I'd post my wishlist of Talented Classes I want to see, and encourage others to do the same.

I mean, I'm going to buy the whole line regardless, even for classes I hate and/or ban.

Advanced Player's Guide
Magus
Oracle

Other Paizo
Arcanist
Bloodrager
(Hybrids and Multiclassing?)
Shifter (though Talented Druid can come damn close)
Psychic
Kineticist
Mesmerist

Dreamscarred Press
Psion
Soulnife
Aegis
Psychic Warrior

What classes would you love to see get the Talented treatment?


Quote:
Second Bond: The magister selects a second mystic bond, though she cannot select a mystic bond she already has.

Would two different mystic bonds of the same type-- such as Arcane Specialization or Sorcerous Bloodline-- count as the same bond, or as two different bonds?


So Rogue Genius Games has a line of Genius Guide to X Archetypes line of supplements-- giving every class an "archetype package" (or two) made up of its class abilities, allowing any class to trade that package for one of several generic archetypes.

They also have a growing line of Genius Guide to the Talented X supplements, that break whole classes (and their archetypes) into a multiple-choice selection of Edges and Talents, allowing you to essentially customize your characer's archetype from the ground up.

Does anyone have experience with both lines of supplements, who might have advice on using them together?


Just what it says on the tin: the Shifter class, from Ultimate Wilderness, is widely considered one of the worst classes in the game with Archetypes that only weaken it further.

Thing is, I really like this class, the concept of it, and I'd like to make it work.

So what can be done to bring the Shifter online with other Tier 4 martial classes?


Most commercial and open-source forum software packages include the ability to members to "block" or "ignore" other users, preventing their messages from being visible to the user.

Given that the forum doctrine is to disengage from posters we find offensive... it would make sense that the forum software make this option easier for us.


I'm still trying to fix the wretched 3.X multiclassing system that Pathfinder uses. My last two attempts have been godawful hideous as far as balance and ease-of-use are concerned-- it's difficult to get right, and I mean no insult when I say that the original solution doesn't work.

So for my current strategy, I need to figure out the ideal XP chart progression for a single-class character so that I can adjust it for multiclass penalties. Problem is, I can't figure out whether or not the standard XP charts-- Fast, Medium, and Slow-- follow a pattern or not.

Can anyone help me figure it out? Or are these numbers just rough figures?


I'm writing a monthly Pathfinder rules and advice column, "Finding the Path" for EN World. Column's just getting off the ground so I don't have a lot of activity in my inbox yet. Is it acceptable for me to take questions from the Rules Questions and Advice forums and answer them in my column?


So, inspired by some of the recent comments on 5e threads on RPG.net (from which this is cross-posted), and my own previous attempts at reforming the D&D class and race rules, I think I've finally found what I would consider the perfect solution.

For those of you fortunate enough to have been spared my previous threads, here's the gist of my class/multiclass rules:

  • Characters can advance in any number of classes concurrently, per the Gestalt rules, but use progressively slower XP charts for each class after the first.
  • Characters may add a class at any point after reaching level 2 by starting over from 0th level with 0 XP, but may not stop progressing in any class unless they forfeit the class features of that class.
  • NPC classes and Prestige Classes function like base classes (PrCs are adjusted to 20 levels) but only count as 1/2 of a class for XP purposes, with a limited number of exceptions that count as full classes. Characters must advance in at least one full class.
  • Characters receive both of the standard +1 HP/skill Favored Class bonuses for advancing in at least one racially favored class and the alternate Favored Class bonuses, from Advanced Player's Guide for every racially Favored Class they advance in.

The last point is the best solution I've been able to come up with, short of old D&D style racial classes, to make your choice of race relevant for a character's entire career. Regrettably, I've had to reject the race-as-class idea for being too restrictive-- being prohibitively expensive both for non-human PCs playing against their racial stereotypes and for PCs wanting to advance in classes whose abilities overlap too much with their racial class. Thinking about those threads, I've come up with the following, in addition to the rules above:

  • Each non-human race (excluding half-humans) has a Basic Racial Class, which is mandatory and counts as a half-class, and an optional Paragon Racial Class that counts as a full class and replaces the Basic Racial Class. Some racial features will become class features or class options for these classes, while others will remain attached to the race itself.
  • Humans receive +1 HP and +1 skill point as a racial feature, but do not receive a Racial Favored Class bonus. Human Paragon is an optional half-class that allows Humans to receive the Human Racial Favored Class bonuses from the classes they are advancing in. (This means that Human Paragons will almost always be multiclassed. This is intentional.)
  • Humans may take Racial Heritage feats that allow them to choose and advance in one Racial Basic Class (from a list) and receive that race's Racial Favored Class benefits for the classes they are advancing in. This may optionally be allowed for some non-human hybrids.

Any thoughts?


So, if you're reincarnated, your age resets to the minimum adult age for your race. You can use reincarnation to effectively live forever, and there are a number of tricks for being able to reincarnate yourself without outside help.

Likewise, according to Savage Species, you can use the wish spell to transform your race-- even to powerful races with high ECLs.

So why can't a character just use miracle or wish to reset their biological age? Why do you have to jump through so many hoops-- or be a 20th level Wizard-- to become immortal?


Okay, so I get that absolutely no one likes my multiclassing house rules. C'est la vie. One of the problems it creates-- if you allow class changes, which I intend to-- is how to handle level-based ability score bonuses.

In addition, I have always preferred that systems like 4e and Conan d20 have given out more ability score bonuses than the standard +1 every four levels. I'm also interested, as always, in making the PC's choice of race more significant over the course of his career.

  • The standard rules state that you gain +1 to one ability score of your choice at 4th and every fourth level thereafter.
  • The 4e rules state that you get +1 to two ability scores of your choice every at 4th and every fourth level thereafter, and +1 to all ability scores at 11th and 21st level.
  • The Conan d20 rules-- in which all PCs are human-- give you +1 to one ability score of your choice every four levels, and +1 to all ability scores at 6th and every fourth level thereafter.

What I am thinking is that every character should, instead of getting to improve the ability score of their choice at every fourth level, characters should get fixed bonuses every even level-- racial bonuses at 2nd level and every fourth level after, and class bonuses at 4th level and every multiple of 4. These are named bonuses, so that multiclass characters with overlapping prime requisites don't get stacking bonuses.

The racial bonuses are simple. All of the non-human core races add their racial bonuses to the same abilities that they get bonuses to at 1st level. Human characters, and others that gain the Human ability score bonus, gain the bonus to their highest ability score and their lowest ability score.

Then, for classes, each class gets two prime requisites:

  • Barbarian: STR and CON
  • Bard: INT and CHA
  • Cleric: WIS and CHA
  • Druid: CON and WIS
  • Fighter: STR and DEX
  • Monk: DEX and WIS
  • Paladin: STR and CHA
  • Ranger: DEX and WIS
  • Rogue: DEX and INT (Ninja gets DEX and CHA)
  • Sorcerer: CON and CHA (Sage gets INT and CHA, Empyreal gets WIS and CHA.)
  • Wizard: INT and WIS
  • Alchemist: CON and INT
  • Cavalier: CON and CHA
  • Gunslinger: DEX and WIS (Mysterious Stranger gets DEX and CHA.)
  • Inquisitor: CON and WIS
  • Magus: STR and INT
  • Oracle: WIS and CHA
  • Summoner: CON and CHA
  • Witch: INT and CHA
  • Psion: INT and WIS
  • Psychic Warrior: STR and WIS
  • Soulknife: DEX and WIS
  • Wilder: WIS and CHA
  • Vitalist: CON and WIS
  • Aegis: CON and WIS
  • Marksman: DEX and WIS

Prestige Classes would each have their own primes, but most of them wouldn't matter since they'd overlap the primes of the base classes that led into them. This would also assist in adaptation, if anyone's interested in using these rules for a normal game.

If using these rules, I would disallow inherent bonuses, such as granted by the wish spell or tomes and manuals.

For normal games, you would simply leave the racial bonuses attached to character level, and attach the class bonuses to class level-- allowing them to stack normally.

So, thoughts?


I'm in Ukiah, about mid-way between Pendleton and La Grande. There anyone on the forums nearby? I prefer Pathfinder and Player's Option AD&D, but I'll play any flavor of D&D, Rolemaster or HARP, and I'm open to most other things.


I miss Assassin spells, and I'm passing fond of the old Factotum class. (As evinced by my attempts at a Factotum Rogue archetype.) So I had the idea that maybe the Rogue and Ninja could-- at the expense of talents-- be upgraded to half-casters.

So here's what I'm thinking:

  • Paladins and Rangers get Orisons at 2nd level, adding the 0th level spells from the Cleric and Druid spell lists, respectively, to their class spell lists. They can prepare 3 Orisons per day.
  • Remove the Minor Magic and Major Magic Rogue talents.
  • Rogues and Ninjas may select Rogue/Ninja Magic as a Talent/Trick, with Int/Cha 10 and 2nd level as prerequisites, granting them 3 cantrips known to be selected from any arcane caster list.
  • At 4th level, Rogues and Ninjas with Rogue/Ninja Magic may select Advanced Magic as a Talent/Trick, granting them an extra cantrip known, 0 1st level spells per day, and 1 1st level spell known from any arcane base class spellcasting list or the Assassin list.
  • At 8th level and every 4th level thereafter, Rogues and Ninjas may select Advanced Magic again, granting them 0 spells per day and 1 spell known for the next spell level, and 1 additional spell per day and spell known for each lower level.
  • Rogues and Ninjas can gain an additional spell per day or spell known, of up to the highest level they can cast, as a Talent they may select multiple times.
  • Rogues with Cantrips and Advanced Magic treat Intelligence as their spellcasting ability; Ninjas use Charisma instead. Their caster level is equal to their class level -3. Both classes may cast Rogue/Ninja spells in light armor without ASF.

With some adaptation, this could be replaced with Divine Magic, or folded into a ki point system like the Qinggong Monk or Ninja.


So... this feat does absolutely nothing in Pathfinder because of the changes to the skill system. I wouldn't care about it all, except that it's a prerequisite for the coolest Prestige Class ever.

It's a Human racial feat that allows the character to purchase cross-class skill ranks at the normal rate of 1 rank per skill point, without changing the normal maximum rank for cross-class skills. It can only be taken at 1st level.

What should it do in Pathfinder? Or, if it's not worth converting, what other feat should take its place?


I've got a very particular type of character I want to play, and I'm wondering if the following class features would be considered fair:

  • Bardic Knowledge for Trapfinding and Trap Sense?
  • Canny Defense for Uncanny Dodge?
  • Insightful Strike and/or Precise Strike for Sneak Attack?


So, I like arcane magic. And I like spontaneous casting. And I like magical healing.

So, how balanced would it be for a Witch to have the Spells Known and Spells Per Day of the Sorcerer? Would they have to give up anything-- aside from their usual method of spellcasting-- in exchange?

Or, if that were problematic, what about allowing a Sorcerer to replace the Sorcerer/Wizard spell list with the Witch list?


Those of you who have seen my posts may have noticed that essentially every complaint I have about the Pathfinder rules is based in how little they resemble the AD&D rules, and how many of my favorite elements of Pathfinder are replacing elements of AD&D I like that were removed in D&D 3.X.

In that spirit, I'm going to post some rules suggestions that I think would make Pathfinder better resemble the parts of AD&D that I liked.

This should likely be considered a "high power" variant, since it drastically improves the capabilities of melee classes and makes use of the Gestalt rules.

Combat:

  • Characters may make a Full Attack as a Standard Action.
  • All iterative attacks are made at the character's full BAB.
  • Two-Weapon Fighting allows a single additional attack during a Full Attack action. Improved Two-Weapon Fighting and Greater Two-Weapon Fighting reduce the attack penalty by -1 each.
  • Monk Flurry of Blows functions as it did in D&D 3.5.
  • The Weapon Specialization and Greater Weapon Specialization feats grant Fighters an additional attack each round with their chosen weapons.

Races & Classes:

  • Every character class for which a race has an alternate favored class bonus counts as a favored class for that race.
  • Characters receive +1 HP and +1 skill point whenever they advance in one or more favored classes, and gain the alternate favored class bonus for every favored class they advance in.
  • Multiclass characters are handled using the Gestalt variant rules, with the exception that they gain an additional skill point per class after the first.
  • Each character has an XP factor that determines the table they use for level advancement. This XP factor is equal to 1 for every base class the character takes, plus 1/2 each for NPC classes or Prestige Classes.
  • The XP necessary to reach 2nd level is equal to the XP factor times 1,000 XP.
  • Characters may begin advancing in one or more new classes at any time; they gain the 1st level abilities of the new class(es), their XP resets to zero, and they advance in the new class(es) according to their new XP factor. When their level in the new class(es) equals their old level, they advance in all classes normally.
  • Subject to DM approval, characters may advance in two or more conflicting class archetypes by adding 1/2 to their XP factor per additional archetype.

I am still working out some details, such as racial paragons and how to handle races with level adjustments.


3 people marked this as FAQ candidate.

Can a Crossblooded Draconic/X Sorcerer qualify for the Dragon Disciple PrC, and if so, how does it interact with the Blood of Dragons class feature?


After reading the thread about people asking for a Politics section because of all of the fighting in Off-Topic-- and wondering what they were talking about-- I actually sat down and scrolled all the way to the bottom of the index page and found out there's a whole bunch of forums down there that I never see because I have to scroll past all of the obsolete playtest forums.

So how about we make a button on the main page that takes you to a list of all the threads that have been posted since the last time you visited the messageboards?


Quote:
Archaeologist’s luck is treated as bardic performance for the purposes of feats, abilities, effects, and the like that affect bardic performance.

Does that also mean that it counts as bardic performance for the purposes of Feats and Prestige Classes that have Bardic Music as a prerequisite?


In the esteemed opinion of the community, would the following be balanced:

  • The Pathfinder Savant has ten levels.
  • With the following exceptions, class features granted on even levels are gained 1 level later, and class features granted on odd levels are gained 2 levels later.
  • Adept activation is left alone.
  • Master Scholar is gained at 2nd level.
  • Esoteric Magic is only gained on even levels, but spells from other class lists are not increased in level.

If this doesn't work, what would it take to make it?


Quote:
At each class level beyond 1st, the Pathfinder savant chooses a spell from any class’s spell list and thereafter treats it as if it were on the spell list of his base spellcasting classes; if his base class could not normally cast that spell, it is treated as 1 level higher. The spell’s type (arcane or divine) and save DCs function as normal for his base spellcasting class. All other restrictions of his normal spellcasting class apply. This ability does not allow other spellcasters to prepare, cast, or use spell trigger or spell completion items of esoteric spells (such as a sorcerer using a cure light wounds scroll).

Am I reading this right? If you have more than one spellcasting class, Esoteric Magic adds the spell to all of your spell lists at the appropriate level for each? This suddenly strikes me as a very interesting class for rounding out a Theurge build, or for general use in a Gestalt game.


How balanced is it to allow other classes to take arcane discoveries as feats? There are a number of them that seem like they should apply equally to other classes.


The default bonus spell progression is that you get one slot of each level of spell up to a level equal to your spellcasting ability modifier, and then one additional slot for every four points of bonus above that.

So, if you have a score of 12 you get one 1st level spell. With a score of 20, you get two 1st level spells and one spell of each level up to 5th. With a score of 30, you get three spells per level up to 2nd, two spells per level up to 6th, and one bonus spell up to 10th.

What I'm thinking is that instead of getting multiple bonus spells for every eight points of ability score, you get a number of bonus spells equal to your ability modifier divided by the spell level. Thus you would have more spells up to 3rd, an equal number of 4th, and fewer spells of 5th level and up.

For instance, with a score of 12 you'd get one 1st level. With a score of 20, you'd get one 1st level, two 2nd level, and one each up to 5th. With a score of 30, you'd get ten 1st level, five 2nd level, three 3rd level, two each at 4th and 5th level, and one each up to 10th. You wouldn't get a second bonus 6th level spell until your spellcasting ability reached 34.

Any thoughts?


13 people marked this as FAQ candidate. Answered in the FAQ. 5 people marked this as a favorite.

I'm trying to work out how exactly reincarnate works.

The spell notes that your physical scores change corresponding to the new body. You remove your racial modifiers to ability scores and then apply the modifiers for the new race.

It makes no such mention of the modifiers for age, so by RAW, a venerable character reincarnated into a young adult body still suffers from an effective -6 to Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution. I am fairly certain that this is contrary to RAI and should be house ruled, but this also raises the question of whether or not the mental ability score bonuses from aging can be gained repeatedly.

  • Does reincarnate remove physical ability score decreases from aging?
  • Does reincarnate remove mental ability score increases from aging?
  • If either the increases or the decreases persist, can a character gain them more than once from aging again?

I have been told that all ongoing effects are attached to the old body and do not transfer upon reincarnation, including all contingencies and all permanent spells. Is this correct?

And, finally, inherent bonuses. Sorcerer bloodlines and magical books are both capable of granting inherent bonuses to ability scores; it's safe to assume that inherent bonuses from the first transfer because the reincarnated creature keeps its class levels, but there's no guideline for whether or not inherent bonuses from magic items are retained.

  • Do reincarnated characters keep their inherent bonuses to physical ability scores?
  • Do reincarnated characters keep their inherent bonuses to mental ability scores?


I am unabashedly in love with the Witch class, to the point that I am willing to tolerate prepared casting and the nebulous requirement of an arcane "patron". But there are certain things the Witch cannot do by RAW which I feel are either integral to the Witch class, or which should be within the capacity of every full caster.

Now, of course this list is going to be entirely subjective, and at least half of it is motivated by things I want to do, so feel free to take it with as many grains of salt as you see fit.

By RAW, it takes them an hour to prepare even a single spell. If you leave slots open, it takes you another full hour of communion to prepare them later.

Contingency and Permanency. These are the bread and butter of prepared magic, key abilities that give the Wizard an edge over his spontaneous counterparts. Their exclusion is baffling and painful. Even Clerics should be able to do this.

Polymorph. Okay, they've got baleful polymorph so at least they can turn people into frogs, but witches in folklore are renowned for their shapeshifting abilities.

Okay, so this list is shorter than I thought it was going to be. It's a really great class, and if you can assume that the "patron" teaches spells rather than granting them, it's probably my favorite class after Dragonfire Adept. (Even better than Bard!)

But I'm working through the PFSRD pages for Ultimate Magic while I eagerly await the day I can purchase it and loving all of the new spells they get.

Which is why it makes me sad they don't get interplanetary teleport. They get all of the others, and even plane shift, and they don't get the one that makes me absolutely giddy. Even Clerics get interplanetary teleport, and they don't get the spells it's based on.

Okay, I'm done. Now I can just go back to begging for House Rules to fix these. Unless the devs want to throw me a bone here... ;)


I'm working on a character, and one of his schticks is riding the Suicide Express to Immortalityville. Problem is, one of his other schticks is turning himself into an Aberration.

Does anyone know of a good source for reincarnation tables for Aberrations and other non-humanoid creature types?


The Witch communes with her familiar for an hour to prepare her spells. Assuming she doesn't prepare all of her spells at once, can she take 15 minutes to prepare spells later in the day?


I know, I know, this has been done to death and nobody's interested in it anymore. But I'm late to the party and I love these classes, flavor-wise. My only complaint is that they are essentially identical, with the Dragonfire Adept receiving better versions of almost all of the Dragon Shaman's class abilities.

As usual, when converting 3.5 classes into Pathfinder classes, I try to combine similarly themed classes whenever possible. In this case, I've combined the Dragon Shaman with the Dragonfire Adept; the class receives all of the abilities common to both classes and the main features of each.

The Dragonfire Adept loses Damage Reduction and Dragonkin, which it can regain with the appropriate draconic auras.

The Dragon Shaman loses its bonus Skill Focus feats, Draconic Adaptation, Touch of Vitality, Energy Immunity, and Commune with Dragon Spirit, most of which can be replaced with invocations.

Dragonfire Adept

HD: d8
BAB: Medium
Saves: Good Fort and Will
Proficiencies: Simple weapons, no armor or shield.
Skill Points: 4 + Int mod
Class Skills: Appraise, Bluff, Climb, Craft, Diplomacy, Fly, Intimidate, Jump, Knowledge, Linguistics, Perception, Sense Motive, Spellcraft, Stealth, Survival, Use Magic Device.

Breath Weapon: As Dragonfire Adept, damage increases by +1d6 every odd level. Length of the breath weapon doubles at 10th level and 20th level.

Invocations: As Dragonfire Adept.

Draconic Aura: As Dragon Shaman, except the Dragonfire Adept starts with only 1 Draconic Aura and learns 1 additional aura at 4th level and every 4th level thereafter.

Dragontouched: As the feat.

Natural Armor: At 2nd level, the Dragonfire Adept's natural armor improves by +1, and another +1 at 6th level and every four levels thereafter.

Bonus Feat: At 4th level and every 4th level thereafter, Dragonfire Adepts may pick a bonus feat from the following list: Any Draconic feat, Draconic Aura, Extra Breath Effect, Extra Invocation, Ability Focus (breath weapon or individual invocation), Skill Focus (any class skill).

Draconic Resolve: At 4th level, Dragonfire Adepts gain a +1 bonus to saving throws versus sleep and paralysis effects.

Apotheosis: At 20th level, the Dragonfire Adept's type changes to dragon. He becomes immune to sleep and paralysis effects. He gains low-light vision and darkvision 60 feet if he does not already possess them.


So, I'm trying to do this Player's Option thing using the Pathfinder rules, where instead of using archetypes or swapping out racial powers on a 1-for-1 basis, racial abilities and class features have point costs and every character gets so many points to spend.

I'm working on Human, and aside from the general dearth of features for Humans, I want to use a base Human race to represent all of your Half Elves and Half Orcs. One of their racial options is the ability to choose another race and buy that race's features at a slight mark-up.

The problem is, I obviously don't want this to apply to any race but I don't know how to word the rule. I want to allow all of the standard PC races plus Orc, Goblin, and Hobgoblin and leave it open for other humanoids, but the Humanoid type includes all kinds of unsuitable creatures.

My first thought was to limit it by subtype, but Goblinoid includes Bugbears and Giant includes Trolls and true Giants.

Can anyone offer any suggestions?


We've got Aasimar and Tiefling, and the Half-Celestial and Half-Fiend templates. We've got all four elements. We've got Sorcerer bloodlines for all of the above plus the Protean.

So how come there aren't any planetouched for the Lawful and Chaotic Outsiders? And why no Axiomite bloodline?