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Recent posts by
Prime Evil:
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Zombieneighbours wrote:
Oh my house is definately spider filled.
I happen to adore spiders.
I have seen four different species of spider in my house in the last two days and it makes me smile every time i see them.
I don't think of them as spiders....I think of them as Mobile Insect Control Units :)
Anyway, I live in Australia and we have some of the coolest arachnids in the world.
I love the whistling spiders from northern Queensland....up to 6cm in body length and a total length of 16cm...plush they make a weird noise if you disturb them...
http://www.biocity.edu.au/content/view/103/68/
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Wellard wrote:
If I remember rightly AEG retained all the IP for Oriental Adventures..now if Lisa could negotiate a deal..we might yet get the Wu-Jen and the Shugenja into PF
If you take any of the d20 Oriental Adventures books published by AEG and look at the declaration of Open Game Content and Product Identity required by the OGL, you will find that AEG was very generous with the amount of open content it permitted - the stuff specific to Rogukan remained product identity, but most of the other stuff is available for third-party use and could be adapted for the Pathfinder RPG.
The declaration is usually worded something like this:
AEG wrote:
AECs intention is to open up as much of the book Magic of Rokugan as possible to be used as open Game Content (OGC), while maintaining Product Identity (PI) to all aspects of the Legend ofthe Five Rings intellectual property Publishers who wish to use the OGC materials from this book are encouraged to contact AEGJohnZ@aolcom if they have any questions or concerns about reproducing material from Magic of Rokugan in other OGL works. AEG would appreciate anyone using OGC material from Magic of Rokugan in other OGL works to kindly reference Magic of Rokugan as the source of that material within the text of their work. Open Game Content may only he used under and in accordance with the terms of the OGL as was set forth in the previous column.
And this:
AEG wrote:
USE OF MATERIAL AS OPEN GAME CONTENT: It is the clear and expressed intent of Alderac Entertainment Group to add all classes, skills, feats, equipment, prestige classes, spell effects, magic item effects, artifact effects, and monster and NPC statistics (hence forth “goodies”)contained in this volume to the canon of Open Game Content for free use pursuant to the open Game License hy future open Game publishers. Some of the aforementioned items, however, contain Product Identity, as designated above, and that designation remains. A limited license is provided below which allows use of content designated as Product Identity for these items only.
The interesting thing is that AEG had a special license from Wizards of the Coast to produce material based on the Oriental Adventures hardcover for the Rokugan setting and often uses terms derived from that work (including Wu Jen, Shugenja, etc) in sections clearly designated as Open Game Content. This might make it possible to produce new OGC versions of these classes for the Pathfinder system.
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DM Jeff wrote:
While the excitement is there, I must speak honestly. I'll be looking very, very carefully at any PF support products not from Paizo. As one who was more than a little burned by careless 3.0 d20 books by folks back in the day (and have since purged such sins from my shelf) I want to be more careful.
So, count me in as one who would definatly like to see more than a few previews or commentary before jumping on board. Thanks!
I think that the days where truckloads of crappy third-party d20 products were dumped on the market are long over. Those publishers who are still in business produce good material; market forces have killed off those that couldn't make the grade. The number of third-party products available has dropped, but the quality of those products has risen sharply.
Keep in mind that supporting the Pathfinder RPG at this point is an act of faith for publishers - nobody really knows how well the game will sell. While there is little doubt that it will do OK, there is a chance that its popularity will either drop off after the initial print run or that it will balloon into a monster hit for Paizo (my hope is the latter). In either case, the market for third-party Pathfinder products is completely untested. It would be very interesting to know how strong pre-orders for the Tome of Secrets are compared to Adamant's recent releases for 4e, True20 and Savage Tales, but I doubt that company will share that information.
I suspect that many of those publishers who choose to publish Pathfinder-compatible material will do so because they harbour a secret love for the 3.5 game system and prefer the freedom afforded by the OGL over the more restrictive terms of the GSL. Purely from a business perspective, there is little doubt that Paizo offers a better deal to third-party publishers than the most obvious alternative....
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Carnivorous_Bean wrote:
3. It's precisely BECAUSE the math breaks down in the normal D&D rules after level 20 that a special Epic ruleset is needed. Saying "normal D&D rules don't work after 20" isn't an argument against special Epic rules -- it's an argument for them. The problem is, that it hasn't yet been handled right. What I'd like to see is a set of Epic rules handled right.
4. One way to do that, just as a random thought, would be to start scaling again at 21. That is, bonuses at Epic levels are designated as "epic +1, epic +2, epic +3, etc."
This would mean that against 'non-epic' DCs, saves, etc., the epic stat automatically gets a +20 bonus. Against epic-level saves, DCs, etc., then the straight epic stat is used, making the die roll more important again and making it so that there are less situations where someone always succeeds, and someone else always fails.
For example, a PC with an epic +6 Will save would receive a +6 Will save against Epic effects (21+). Against non-epic effects, they would receive a +26 Will save.
In this way, you'd return the math to manageable levels, but still retain the feeling that your characters can mash ordinary heroes and villains flat in a few seconds.
In effect, against epic-level challenges, a 21st level character would effectively be a 1st level character again, although with a diverse selection of abilities and powers, making the character feel much more epic than a 1st level character (something also achieved by the nature of the stories and challenges they would face at these levels). But the math would be brought back to a manageable level, bonus-wise, and the die roll would become more significant again.
Against non-epic challenges, this same character would be pretty overwhelming -- which is appropriate, too.
This is an outstanding idea! It effectively re-normalizes the mathematics at level 20. It would allow epic-level play to scale gracefully from levels 21-40, with a sweet spot somewhere around levels 26-32. Characters who hit level 21 are in for a tough fight the first time they tackle an epic-level opponent, but that is entirely appropriate - they have just gone from being big fish in a small pond to very small fish in an ocean that spans the entire multiverse. Their actions as mighty heroes or villains has started to draw the attention of the even greater powers whose decisions affect the destinies of entire worlds.
The idea of a level cap at 40 for epic-level play also fits in well with established third-edition D&D lore, which set the precedent that most gods and other immortals should possess 40 class levels.
Under this scheme, I would suggest three distinct scales of play: 1-20 = heroic; 21-40 = epic; 41-60 = mythic / immortal. The mathematics rescale each time the characters pass from one band to the next to reflect the idea that each type of play is qualitatively different.
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In my own opinion, the OGL was probably the most important innovation of the 3E era. It had no precedent within the industry, drawing instead upon the model of open-source software development. The OGL allowed an entire ecosystem of independent publishers to flourish - some good, some bad, and some indifferent. WoTC never really allowed the OGL to develop to its full potential - they didn't release much OGC after the first year or two and never incorporated the best of the third-party material back into the 'official' ruleset. However, the fact remains that the OGL kick-started a revival of the hobby (which was in severe doldrums back in the late 1990s).
By contrast, the GSL seems to be a big step backwards. The restrictive terms of the license and the mishandling of its release killed off many of the third-party publishers (or at least sent them into very deep hibernation). Rather that drawing upon the open-source development model, the GSL reads like a standard contract for the use of licensed intellectual property - the kind of contract that lawyers in the entertainment industry draw up all the time.
The fact that Paizo has chosen to stick with the OGL for the Pathfinder RPG makes me very happy. Although it is unlikely that Pathfinder will attract the number of third-party publishers that 3e did in the heyday, it wouldn't surprise me if a few of the big names test the waters with a couple of Pathfinder-compatible releases. If these are successful, we might see a modest revival in the 3PP ecosystem.
I am consistently impressed that Paizo seems to 'get' the OGL far better than anybody at WoTC did after Ryan Dancey left - not only do they release most of the non-setting specific material in their books as OGC, but also they routinely use spells and monsters from other publishers (especially Green Ronin and Necromancer). I'd love to see Paizo develop an official online SRD that serves as a resource for the OGC contained in their own books - but also the best OGC from other Pathfinder-compatible publishers. I'm not sure whether this is likely to happen though.
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Turin the Mad wrote:
Krome wrote:
It remains a right only until it is taken from us.
Or until we surrender it.
I agree with Proudhon's words from 1849:
Pierre-Joseph Proudhon wrote:
All men are equal and free: society by nature, and destination, is therefore autonomous and ungovernable. If the sphere of activity of each citizen is determined by the natural division of work and by the choice he makes of a profession, if the social functions are combined in such a way as to produce a harmonious effect, order results from the free activity of all men; there is no government. Whoever puts a hand on me to govern me is an usurper and a tyrant; I declare him my enemy.
I also agree with Thomas Paine:
Thomas Paine wrote:
Society is produced by our wants, and government by our wickedness; the former promotes our happiness positively by uniting our affections, the latter negatively by restraining our vices...The first is a patron, the last a punisher. Society [...] is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worse state an intolerable one.
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James Jacobs wrote:
Malcanthet was created by Rob Kuntz in Dungeon #112's "Maure Castle," and I did the majority of the work developing her character in Savage Tide, the Demonomicion, FC1, and Rob developed her more in the Maure Castle sequels in Dungeon. All of that was under WotC, alas, so she's closed content. Since she's not based on a real-world myth, she's not public domian either (as is the case of Demogorgon, Orcus, Pazuzu, and many other demon lords).
Which is the primary reason we turned Nocticula into the queen of the succubi in Golarion, rather than continue using Malcanthet.
For the record, which of the Demon Lords are OGC?
Here's the ones that I am aware of:
The Tome of Horrors from Necromancer Games contains OGC writeups for the following demon lords that were authorized by WoTC back in the early days of 3e:
Baphomet
Fraz-Urb'Luu
Jubilex
Kostchtchie
Orcus
Pazuzu
In addition, this book provided a original writeups of the following demon lords:
Dagon
Tsathogga
The Book of Fiends from Green Ronin contains some OGC information on a number of demon lords.
Many of the demon lords described in the Book of Fiends have names and attributes that are clearly in the public domain because they are based upon real-world mythology - most of them are lifted directly from the Goetia:
Abaddon
Abraxas
Anarazel
Astaroth
Baphomet
Behemoth
Decarabia
Demogorgon
Flauros
Gamigin
Haagenti
Ipos
Nocticula
Raum
Sabnach / Sabnock
Shax
Socothbenoth
Vepar
Many of these demon lords also appear in the list of Rulers of the Abyss on p.35 of the 1st edition Monster Manual II.
A couple of additional OGC demon lords appear in the Book of Fiends:
Arachnadia (obviously based upon Lloth)
Vaz'zht (Not sure of the origin of this one)
Zhar'Ub-Luur (presumably based upon Fraz-Urb'Luu)
Yughhooragh (obviously based upon Yeenoghu)
Have I missed anybody?
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There's only a little bit of time left before the beta playtest for the Pathfinder RPG ends, so I'd like to make one last suggestion to the folks at Paizo who are working on the final version of the rulebook.
As you work feverishly to get the final manuscript ready, take a moment every now and then to step back from the rules and pay some attention to the tone and 'feel' of the product.
Speaking personally, improved rules are not the main reason that I want to play the Pathfinder RPG. I want to play the game because I sincerely hope that it will capture the magic that attracted me to roleplaying in the first place. I really want the final version of the Pathfinder RPG to be the rulebook that I dreamed of when I was 12 years old. And this has as much to do with the quality of the 'fluff' between the covers as it does about the quality of the 'crunch'. It is all about atmosphere and attitude. I believe that flavor actually matters!
Although the Pathfinder RPG contains modern game mechanics, I encourage you to wrap them in old-school sensibilities. Make sure that you show proper respect for the traditions of fantasy roleplaying that have kept many of us playing for more than twenty years. Always choose flavor text that accentuates the 'feel' of the game. Reach back to the pulp fantasy roots that inspired D&D in the first place. And try to capture the spirit of that tradition.
We're counting on you to show us something really special in August. At the end of the day, I hope that you will astonish and inspire us with an amazing piece of work...
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When the 3.5 rules replaced the 3.0 rules, many people complained that the use of miniatures became mandatory. For example, Monte Cook commented:
Monte Cook wrote:
"The game now has an even stronger focus on miniatures. 3.0 had a strong focus on miniatures, but we wanted to at least address the fact that you might not want to play the game that way. But everyone in the Wizards of the Coast offices does, and so now you have to as well. And Wizards has a new line of miniatures to sell you. Seriously, though, for those wanting to play the game sitting on the couch, the game now offers a new barrier for you. The Combat chapter in the Player's Handbook now reads like a miniatures game. More and more of the game stats use "squares" rather than feet (or both). This is a huge step backward toward the "inches" used in 1st Edition."
He also noted that this approach could have some strange side-effects:
Monte Cook wrote:
"Facing (now called space) is now always square. In order to facilitate miniatures play (apparently), horses are no longer 5 feet by 10 feet when you put them on a grid, they're a 10-foot square. The horse has to "squeeze" to get through a 5 foot wide space. Three 9-foot-tall ogres require a 30-foot-wide passage in order to walk abreast. D&D, with its already abstract combat system, did not need this extra layer of abstraction. Not to mention the fact that this changes game play in strange ways, such as how many of the charging ogres you can get with your fireball spell."
The Pathfinder RPG inherits a strong focus on the use of miniatures from 3.5 and is unlikely to move away from this focus because doing so would break backward compatibility. In addition, a number of combat feats and combat maneuvers are dependent upon the use of miniatures and removing them would penalize characters (particularly fighters) who have invested time and effort into acquiring or using them.
Although I enjoy playing with miniatures, there are times when breaking out the figures for a combat is a chore. Does anybody have any suugestions for changes to the rules that would reduce the overdependence upon minitures?
Perhaps it would be worth adding a brief 2-3 page appendix with an streamlined abstract combat system for those times when the full combat system is too much? Speaking personally, I would find this useful for minor incidental combats, barroom brawls, etc.
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Haelis wrote:
The feats themselves are not bad...but most of my characters never take them because there are things out there that I need to get to meet prestige Class requirements or even other feats.
That's been my experience too. Characters avoid these feats like the plague because they are 'sub-optimal' and they are rarely prerequisites for interesting prestige classes.
Haelis wrote:
I would also like the idea of improved versions of these feats allowing perhaps a reroll or 2d20 "keep the best one".
I'm not sure about this idea - the problem is that it cheapens the advantage of having a good progression in a particular saving throw category. Personally, I like a smaller static bonus...
Another other option might be to give all characters a discretionary point every few levels that they can add to a base saving throw of their choice. One option might be to give a point each time the character receives an attribute increase - i.e. one point every four levels. This wouldn't make much difference at low levels, but might ease some of the statistical anomalies that occur at high levels.
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One of the problems that crops up in high-level play is the growing size of the gap between a character's best saving throw and the character's worst saving throw. In the 'sweet spot' that exists from about level 5 to about level 10, the size of this gap is approximately 2-3 points, but above level 15 or so it grows to a whopping 5-6 points. This means that an encounter that is a reasonable challenge for one member of a high-level party is likely to be deadly to those that have a poor saving throw against its attack. It is also one of the reasons that the challenge rating system breaks down badly at high levels. And it ensures that high-level characters have a glass jaw - any attack that targets their weak spot (their poor save) ensures that they go down. When this is combined with the growing proliferation of save or die effects, problems ensue. Most characters respond to this issue by loading upon items that boost saving throws - which exacerbates the christmas tree effect.
So what it the solution? Short of modifying the saving throw progression (which would seriously break backward compatibility), I suggest that those feats which improve a character's saving throws could do with a bit of a boost. I'm thinking of Great Fortitude, Iron Will, and Lightning Reflexes. I would suggest tweaking them to read something like this:
Great Fortitude
Benefit: You gain a +2 bonus on all Fortitude saving throws. This bonus increases by +1 for every four levels of experience that you possess.
This would ensure that characters can compensate for their weak saving throw without resorting to magic items - but only at the cost of a feat. It would also have a smaller impact on backward compatibility than most of the alternatives.
So what do folks think?
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Steven T. Helt wrote:
A lot more decisions have to be made, but how many sets of rules Paizo has to release to make it possible is not one of them. If I wanted to go forward, and felt good about my understanding of their OGL, Paizo has already given me everything I need.
Keep in mind that the OGL on it's own does not permit you to indicate compatibility with the Pathfinder ruleset - you need the Pathfinder RPG Compatibility License for that.
You could publish material using the OGC in the Pathfinder Beta without any claims of compatibility, but gamers would need to work out which rule systems it can be used with on their own.
It will be interesting to see just how closely you need to follow the Paizo RAW in order to utilize the Pathfinder RPG Compatibility License - for example, if you develop a variant combat system or significantly modify one of the core classes for your own campaign can you still publish it the compatibility license? Or does any significant change to the official Paizo rules make the work infringeing?
Another thought...it will be interesting to see how the Community Use license handles things like non-commercial software such as fan-made Neverwinter Nights modules set in Golarion or homebrew tools for online play using Fantasy Grounds or OpenRPG...
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Thanks for the clarifications, Vic.
At this point, the licensing arrangements are sounding very reasonable (barring last-minute changes at the request of the lawyers).
I did think of a couple more quick questions though...
Will the Pathfinder RPG Compatibility License only permit the licensee to indicate compatibility with the material from the Pathfinder RPG core rulebook, or can the licensee also use it to indicate compatibility with OGC from future Pathfinder RPG material from Paizo?
For example, let's say that Paizo releases an updated set of psionics rules and declares some of the content to be OGC. For the sake of this argument, assume that the new psionics book makes that minimal references to the Pathfinder RPG core rulebook. Could a third-party publisher use this OGC under the Pathfinder RPG Compatibility License to publish a book of psionic monsters without directly referencing the core rulebook anywhere in the work? Or would that be a breach of the license?
The reason that I ask this question is that the legal status of books that used the d20 logo and OGC from Unearthed Arcana was always very unclear - was this OGC covered under the d20 trademark license or not? WoTC never clarified the situation either way - my gut feeling is that they basically lost interest in the d20 license at some point around 2005.
It would be nice if the Pathfinder RPG Compatibility License covers claims of compatibility with OGC from the entire Pathfinder RPG product line, but from a legal perspective I can understand the desire of Paizo to establish clear boundaries around the license.
On a different subject, how will the Pathfinder RPG Compatibility License handle works that do not fall into the medieval fantasy genre? For example, let's say that I want to publish an updated version of material from the d20 modern system that has been reworked to incorporate the new mechanics from the Pathfinder RPG (such as CMB and the revised skill list). Could I publish this under the Pathfinder RPG Compatibility License or would I be in breach of the license? How would the Pathfinder RPG Compatibility License handle something like a Pathfinder version of Mutants & Masterminds - a product that applies the Pathfinder rules to a different genre?
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Vic Wertz wrote:
Blazej is correct: that sort of thing is not part of the Pathfinder RPG Compatibility License; pretty much all that license does is let publishers advertise compatibility with the Pathfinder RPG.
Our Community Use License will allow non-professional use of some of our other trademarks and setting material under certain guidelines. That document is also at the lawyer right now (and Ryan has also looked that one over).
Anyone wanting to use any of our trademarks or setting material for *professional* publication (beyond what's allowed in the Pathfinder RPG Compatibility License) will need to contact us for a direct license (and we'll be pretty selective about granting those).
OK... so the licensing options that will be placed on the table are:
- Open Game Content: Anybody can use the Open Game Content contained in the Pathfinder RPG under the terms of the OGL, but cannot claim compatibility with the Pathfinder RPG (as per the restriction contained in Section 7 of the OGL).
- Pathfinder RPG Compatibility License: Anybody who complies with the terms of this license can use the Open Game Content contained in the Pathfinder RPG under the terms of the OGL and can also indicate compatibility with the Pathfinder RPG. However, they cannot use any material from Pathfinder products that has been designated as product identity (eg. Paizo trademarks, elements of the Golarion campaign setting, deity names, etc).
- Community Use License: This license allows limited non-professional usage of Paizo product identity and trademarks under conditions that are yet to be revealed. From the description above, it sounds like this license is designed for folks who want to set up a Golarion-based campaign blog or something similar.
- Direct License from Paizo: Professional publishers who wish to utilize Paizo trademarks or material that has been designated as product identity in Paizo products must enter into a separate commercial license with Paizo. In order to prevent a glut of substandard Pathfinder products, Paizo intends to limit the number of direct licenses granted and presumably retain some kind of approval power over products that fall into this category. This would cover stuff like articles in Kobold Quarterly and established third-party publishers who wish to produce a quasi-official Pathfinder product (such as a Pathfinder version of Green Ronin's Freeport that contains advice on placing the city in Golarion).
It should be noted that every single one of these licensing options is considerably more friendly to the licensee than the 4e GSL...
A couple of general questions:
- How do you ensure that material released under the Pathfinder RPG Compatibility License actually uses the Pathfinder RPG ruleset and is not merely 3.5 material that has been re-badged?
- Will the Pathfinder RPG Compatibility License or Community Use License contain a 'community standards' clause like the one that was inserted into the revised d20 trademark license?
- Will Paizo provide a standard logo that products released under Pathfinder RPG Compatibility License can use to indicate compatibility? I'm wondering if Paizo is planning something like Green Ronin's M&M Superlink logo...
- Would Paizo consider releasing some trade dress guidelines for products released under the Pathfinder RPG Compatibility License to help develop a sense of brand identity. I presume that the license will prohibit licensees from producing material that imitates the look and feel of official Paizo products and was wondering whether Paizo would consider would consider wourking with the community to develop a style guide for third-party Pathfinder RPG products?
- Will the development of third-party character generation software be permitted under the terms of the the Pathfinder RPG Compatibility License? This was always a grey area for the d20 trademark license, and it would be nice to have some clarity in this area.
- Will there be a restriction in the Community Use License against using Paizo material with game systems other than the Pathfinder RPG? For example, if a fan wants to write up 4e conversions of NPCs from a Pathfider module, would that be acceptable? What about adaptations of monsters from Pathfider products to OSRIC or other retro-clone systems?
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This is excellent news. It looks like the spirit of the OGL lives on!
IMHO, the entire hobby owes a huge debt of gratitude to people like Ryan Dancey and Peter Adkison who took a huge gamble on the OGL licensing scheme back in the late 1990's.
Despite the glut of bad d20 books towards the end of the 3.0 era, there is an entire ecology of cool RPG material that simply would not exist without their foresight and imagination. Heck, even Paizo would not exist in its current form without the OGL...
It will be interesting to see whether companies like Green Ronin, Necromancer, and Goodman Games announce third-party Pathfinder RPG support shortly after the terms of the compatibility license are announced.
Keep in mind that at least some of these companies will choose to support both 4e and Pathfinder (which is probably the best possible outcome for the hobby as a whole).
The release of the Pathfinder compatibility license will hopefully ensure that those of us who like the underlying 3.5 game system will have new products to look forward to from a number of different publishers for the next few years.
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Duncan & Dragons wrote:
Assassin Talents as rogue-like talents available through the Assassin class. I meant that they are special Assassin talents that are only accessible to those who take the Assassin PrC. Else, classes besides Rogue that become Assassins could never take the Talents. Maybe they should not be called 'Talents' since they are accessible by all Assassins, not just former Rogues. The term 'Talent' could cause confusion.
But the point is that different assassins might take different paths. Some might use spells. Some might be masters of wet work with a knife. Some might become experts with poison. Others might become snipers
I like this approach...it gives the Assassin PrC some versatility and allows for a range of different builds.
Let me suggest a few rough ideas for additional assassin talents:
Social Chameleon: Helps the assassin 'blend in', perhaps providing a bonus to certain skills when attempting to get close to a target in a social situation.
Concealed Weapon: Gives the assassin a bonus when attempting to hide a small weapon such as a knife or shuriken on his or her person. Perhaps the size of this bonus should be equal to the assassin's class level?
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