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Machine Soldier

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Goblin Squad Member. Pathfinder Society Member. 6,205 posts (6,213 including aliases). No reviews. 1 list. No wishlists. 1 Pathfinder Society character. 1 alias.


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GinoA, you could think of this a different way.

If a Dex modifier of -5 was instead treated as a "0" and a Dex modifier of +0 was treated as a "+5" then low Dex modifiers represent your natural ability to get out of the way of an attack. However, that ability would be capped at "+5" while flat-footed.

Now, apply that logic to our current system.
An unarmored, unequipped, and unconscious (helpless) human will have an AC of 5 (10-5 = 5).

Wake him up and he has a better reaction based on his Dexterity up to a maximum of AC 10 (10+0 = 10).

You can consider this the natural ability to minimally react rather than the ability to defend on purpose.

Then perhaps you should rephrase your statement as 'deific magic'? :)

So you house rule that divine magic potions don't exist but Druids can make potions?

CRB p49 Druid spells wrote:
A druid casts divine spells which are drawn from the druid spell list presented in Chapter 10.

Hmmmm :)

CRB p477 Potions wrote:
Potions are like spells cast upon the imbiber. The character taking the potion doesn’t get to make any decisions about the effect—the caster who brewed the potion has already done so. The drinker of a potion is both the effective target and the caster of the effect (though the potion indicates the caster level, the drinker still controls the effect).
CRB p490 Scrolls wrote:
Determine Effect: A spell successfully activated from a scroll works exactly like a spell prepared and cast the normal way. Assume the scroll spell’s caster level is always the minimum level required to cast the spell for the character who scribed the scroll, unless the scriber specifically desired otherwise.

Scrolls, Wands, and Staves do not have the restriction that Potions do but it can be assumed that the restriction Potions have does not apply to them since it is not stated.

Shaky is 3rd party Drawback, not a Paizo Pathfinder Drawback. If you are going to use a source like D20PFSRD please confirm the source of that information. It lists the source at the bottom of the page.

No, Drawbacks are not on par with Flaws in 3.5. There is no parity to be found between Drawbacks and Flaws.

You cannot use the BP stored in the Granary to construct buildings. The rules state it can only be used when consumption exceeds your treasury. That occurs in the upkeep phase.

Farms+fisheries - consumption = value.
If value is negative then you must pay for it out of your treasury.
If you do not have enough in your treasury you can cover it with your Granary.

Frankly, they worded it badly. It should be used whenever consumption exceeds food.

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Large Air Elemental Skills:
Skills Acrobatics +15, Escape Artist +15, Fly +21, Knowledge
(planes) +5, Perception +11, Stealth +11
Ability Scores: Str 18 (+4), Dex 25 (+7), Con 16 (+3), Int 6 (-2), Wis 11 (+0), Cha 11 (+0)

Now, we know that Air Elementals have Perfect fly skill and this one is large. That is +8 and -2 respectively.

We also know that Large creatures have a -4 penalty to stealth.

It has no racial skills or skill improving feats.

Air Elementals have Fly as a class skill.

Outsiders have a number of class skills and those are: Bluff, Craft, Kn. Planes, Perception, Sense Motive, and Stealth. They also have 4 additional unspecified class skills depending on theme.

Of the 6 Air Elemental's skills only 2 are not automatically class skills so we can assume those two are theme related as per Outsiders.

So, now we know all the modifiers lets subtract all of them from the skills:
Acrobatics: 15-7-3 = 5
Escape Artist: 15-7-3 = 5
Fly: 21-7-8-(-2)-3 = 5
Kn. Planes: 5-(-2)-3 = 4
Perception: 11-0-3 = 8
Stealth: 11-7-(-4)-3 = 5

Total ranks required: 32

An Outsider gets 6+int in skill ranks per HD. In this case that is 4*8 = 32.

Looks like the Air Elemental did indeed purchase ranks in Escape Artist. They are not some flat bonus.

CRB p51 Wild Shape wrote:
This ability functions like the beast shape I spell, except as noted here. The effect lasts for 1 hour per druid level, or until she changes back.
CRB p247 Beast Shape wrote:
School transmutation (polymorph)
CRB p211 Transmutation-Polymorph subschool wrote:

Polymorph: A polymorph spell transforms your physical body to take on the shape of another creature. While these spells make you appear to be the creature, granting you a +10 bonus on Disguise skill checks, they do not grant you all of the abilities and powers of the creature. Each polymorph spell allows you to assume the form of a creature of a specific type, granting you a number of bonuses to your ability scores and a bonus to your natural armor. In addition, each polymorph spell can grant you a number of other benefits, including movement types, resistances, and senses. If the form you choose grants these benefits, or a greater ability of the same type, you gain the listed benefit. If the form grants a lesser ability of the same type, you gain the lesser ability instead. Your base speed changes to match that of the form you assume. If the form grants a swim or burrow speed, you maintain the ability to breathe if you are swimming or burrowing. The DC for any of these abilities equals your DC for the polymorph spell used to change you into that form.

In addition to these benefits, you gain any of the natural attacks of the base creature, including proficiency in those attacks. These attacks are based on your base attack bonus, modified by your Strength or Dexterity as appropriate, and use your Strength modifier for determining damage bonuses.

In short, you do NOT turn into a creature when you use a polymorph effect such as Wild Shape. You turn into an approximation of that creature with a specific list of abilities and powers that modify or replace your natural abilities and powers. If you start out as a weak Druid you are going to be a weak Earth Elemental.

Back in 3.5 this was not the case and it was widely abused.

Alas, it does not appear that it does.

Yup! :)

blahpers, the difference between a scorpion whip and a whip is 10feet (scorpion whip has no reach, whip has 15' reach).

It would help if you provide a quote or a link to the ability.

First, a critical hit is what happens when you roll a critical threat and then confirm it. It does not have anything to do with automatically hitting.

Second, assuming you meant critical threat, a critical threat does not automatically hit, only a natural 20 does.

Finally, just because you rolled a natural 20 does not mean you throw out all of the final number. 20+bonuses = #. If the parry attempt rolls a higher number then it is parried.

Summary: An automatic hit due to a natural 20 does not negate the total value of the roll which a parry can still attempt to beat. There is nothing in the rules stating otherwise.

Good point but Masterwork will be too expensive for a starting druid (which is why I didn't list Chain Shirt).

Be happy the Druid doesn't have his Wolf wearing armor. At (druid) level 1 the Wolf could have Light Armor Proficiency and be wearing Leather or Studded Leather

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LessusFreak, you cannot use Create Pit that way.

1) line of effect is being blocked by the door.

CRB p215 wrote:
You must have a clear line of effect to any target that you cast a spell on or to any space in which you wish to create an effect. You must have a clear line of effect to the point of origin of any spell you cast.

You do not have line of effect past the door so you cannot create the pit straddling the door.

2) The pit must be created in an area of sufficient size.

APG p213 wrote:
You create a 10-foot-by-10-foot extradimensional hole with a depth of 10 feet per two caster levels (maximum 30 feet). You must create the pit on a horizontal surface of sufficient size.

It is not of sufficient size since the door blocks the way.

If would help if you quoted or provided links the relevant abilities.

Here is the full rule (CRB p183) wrote:
3 If you have a base attack bonus of +1 or higher, you can combine one of these actions with a regular move. If you have the Two-Weapon Fighting feat, you can draw two light or one-handed weapons in the time it would normally take you to draw one.

Both "Draw a Weapon" and "Ready or Drop a Shield" are marked with the "3" superscript.

Summary: it takes Two-Weapon Fighting to ready both a shield and a weapon while moving (barring some exception).

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You take the better of the two in any situation which effectively means he has DR 5/silver and cold iron.

A more odd setup is DR 10/adamantine and DR 3/- (a barbarian with stoneskin could have this).

In that case you check the higher of the two first (DR 10/adamantine) and if it bypasses that (such as an Adamantine weapon) then you check the DR 3/-.

This is overlapping but not stacking.

10 rounds in a minute.

CRB p12 wrote:
Round: Combat is measured in rounds. During an individual round, all creatures have a chance to take a turn to act, in order of initiative. A round represents 6 seconds in the game world.


Assume the following: you activate the power and it replaces any previous activations. Then most of that should make sense. This is based on the following sentence:

"The brawler can use this ability again before the duration expires in order to replace the previous combat feat with another choice."

Did you fail by 5 or more? (CRB p108 states that you only go under if you fail by 5 or more.)
Was the water deeper than 20'? Even with a heavy load you only sink 20' on a failed check (Crypt of the Everflame p20, although this is not a core rule it is a good guideline).

There is no action in the rules for this. I would probably just include it with the move action.


1) is clear that if you have Channel Energy from Cleric, Paladin, or Warpriest (but not Oracle) then you get the ability.

2) You are misreading the 'either' 'or' element. It is not 'either you have this ability or you have this ability' it is 'either when you use this ability or when you use this ability'.

4) Specific overrides general. General states that Negative Energy to Harm is altered but in the specific case of Harm(Undeath) it is Negative Energy to Heal that is being altered.

In any case. the Devs are not going to clarify every rule that can be twisted into pedantic readings when the meaning is clear.
Only question 3 actually lacks clarity due to not having a rule to cover it.
Question 4 could use a bit of cleaning up but probably doesn't rise to the level of being FAQ worthy since the meaning is clear and specific overrides general.

Thanks Rhatahema, I thought that was in there somewhere but not finding it I defaulted to the baseline supernatural rule.

Eltacolibre, an alchemist's Alchemy (su) ability is absolutely magical. There is nothing non-magical about their extracts, bombs, or mutagen. But supernatural abilities are not the same thing as spells or spell-like abilities.

Supernatural abilties are magical and are suppressed in an anti-magic field but they are not spells or spell-like abilities.

Alchemists abilities are supernatural which is a form of magic but they are not spells or spell-like abilities and thus do not have caster levels. It is an important distinction.

In one respect an alchemist's extracts are better than any spell. They cannot be dispelled since they are supernatural and not spell or spell-like.

Markov Spiked Chain,

1) I am not sure why you need additional clarification. dragonhunterq quoted the relevant passage that enables non-clerics to use Variant Channeling.

Reposting the quote:

Ultimate Magic p28 wrote:
A character who has the channel energy ability from a class other than cleric may use these variant channeling rules if the class’s abilities are tied to serving a deity. For example, paladins can select alternative channeling abilities if they serve a deity, as can oracles with the Life mystery (as they serve many deities), but necromancer wizards cannot.

Yes, it is clear that certain non-clerics (such as Warpriests) can do this. They do not need to multi-class into cleric but if they do then they qualify as a both a Cleric and as a Warpriest.

2) If you take Versatile Channeler you still only get one portfolio aspect for variant channeling (such as "Death"). The only difference is that you can now use both heal and harm options instead of either the heal (CPE) or the harm (CNE) option.

Ultimate Magic p28 wrote:
A variant channeling either modifies positive channeled energy when used to heal or modifies negative energy when used to harm. When using positive energy to heal, affected creatures gain only half the normal amount of healing but also receive a specific beneficial effect. When channeling negative energy to harm, affected creatures take only half the normal damage but take an additional penalty or harmful effect; a successful saving throw negates the additional penalty or effect but does not reduce the damage any further. Creatures that would normally ignore the effect of a particular channel (such as undead with respect to a positive energy channel used to heal) ignore the variant effect of that channel.

3) While not explicitly stated no, you should not be able to choose different aspects (such as "Death" and "Fate") if you have two classes that grant channel energy. The choice was made when you got Channel Energy regardless of the class involved. This should be similar to multi-classed characters being required to chose the same domains (or blessing-domains) in each class.

4) Variant Channeling only modifies positive energy to heal or negative energy to harm.
It does not modify positive energy to harm or negative energy to heal.

Example: You Channel Positive Energy and have the "Death" variant channel ability.
When using Channel Positive Energy to heal you use the "Death variant's ability to give a bonus to stablize.
When using Channel Positive Energy to harm undead you harm the undead normally. The Variant Channel plays no part in that.

Any class that Channels Energy can select Variant Channeling if they serve a deity (examples: Clerics, Paladins, and Warpriests but not Oracles).

Variant Channeling only affects Channel Positive Energy to Heal (not Channel Positive Energy to Harm) and Channel Negative Energy to Harm (not Channel Negative Energy to Heal).

Could you provide links to where people are saying you can apply Quicken SLA to a Blessing?

Blessings are supernatural, not spell-like. Even if they replicate a spell.

Yes, strength applies to the claw attacks. Yes, they are primary.


Regarding question 1, could you cite your rationale in the Shadow Conjuration spell? I do not see anything that allows for what you are saying.

Even if you disbelieve it the Shadow Mage Armor is still partially real.

Additionally, you can use Shadow Conjuration for more than attack or summoning. You can use it for Minor and Major Creation.

Shadow Conjuration wrote:
Shadow objects or substances have normal effects except against those who disbelieve them. Against disbelievers, they are 20% likely to work.

It is clear that Shadow Conjuration can be used for Mage Armor, the questions are how it gets adjudicated after that.

3 people marked this as FAQ candidate.

First, the links to the relevant abilities:
Shadow Conjuration
Mage Armor

Ok, so let us assume that someone is using Shadow Conjuration to cast Mage Armor on themselves (perhaps they do not have another means to cast Mage Armor).

Let us also assume that a BBEG is attacking the creature with the Shadow Mage Armor and, after the first attack, has successfully made the saving throw.

Question 1: what is the effect of the Shadow Mage Armor after the save?

Possible answers:
1) 20% chance to be effective per subsequent attack by the BBEG
2) 20% chance to be effective against the BBEG regardless of the number of attacks.
3) something else?

Question 2: If the BBEG has Spell Resistance does the caster of the Shadow Conjuration need to make an SR check for the Mage Armor to be effective?

Possible answers:
1) Yes, it states that Shadow Conjuration has SR.
2) No, the recipient of the Shadow Mage Armor is who the spell resistance is checked against.
3) something else?

There is a 4th level spell in the Undead Slayer's Handbook reverses negative energy affinity (into positive).


Just a note, creatures that are not mounts do not wear barding, they wear armor. Only mounts wear barding. This is an extremely important distinction as the flying restrictions on barding do not apply to all armor.

APG p86 wrote:
A cleric who chooses a subdomain must have access to both the domain and its subdomain from her deity (see Table 2–12).

APG p91 has Table 2-12 and lists which subdomains each deity has.

Feather is not in Gozreh's list and thus while a cleric of Gozreh can take Animal they cannot take Feather.

If you have a method (such as Quick Runner's Shirt) to gain a bonus move action then you can do this. Otherwise, you cannot because Flurry requires a full attack action.

Seeker is pretty much perfect for any character since it describes a trait common to most adventurers.

If you are not using your eyes (ie: using blindsight) then illusions, invisibility, concealment, etc. are not relevant.

Lets assume for a moment you have a creature with Blindsight 30' and normal vision (is not blind).

You have 3 targets:
1) is 20' away and invisible.
2) is 20' away, invisible and has Dampen Presence
3) is 40' away and invisible.

#1 is automatically detected by Blindsight. No roll is required.

#2 may be detected if the perception roll is greater than the stealth roll without the invisibility bonus. (You do not get the invisibility bonus against creatures not using sight to detect you.)

#3 may be detected if the perception roll is greater than the stealth roll with the invisibility bonus.

I had made a very specific point to state that for the sake of the "Order of Operations" discussion I was ignoring the material question.

Please do not construe that as defacto acceptance that I believe you can make Celestial Armor out of any material you wish.

Do try to keep the separate points...separate?

To put this another way:
Can you make Celestial Plate Armor out of another material? Only if Celestial is not required to be made out of silver.
Will Celestial Plate Armor benefit from being made out of Mithral? No because Mithral happens before the Celestial magic sets the stats.

The problem you keep having is that you keep treating Celestial Plate as an "adjustment that affects the base item". Nowhere in the rules for Celestial Plate Armor does it state the words 'adjustment' or 'base item'.

Mithral has adjustments for a base item while Celestial Plate Armor effectively replaces stats, it does not adjust them. If it adjusted them then Celestial could be applied to non-Plate Armor, which it cannot because there are no adjustment stats.

Ok, a new thought exercise for those that still do not seem to understand.

What does the mithral special material do to the classification (Light, Medium, or Heavy) of armor? Reduces it by one step for most purposes.

What does Celestial Armor do to the classification of Heavy Armor? Reduces it to Medium.

Now, we have two effects and they are worded differently. We have to determine what the order of operations is. Why? Because there are two possible results depending on the order assigned. Pathfinder uses order of operations all the time in the statistics and math of the system.

Now, the rules do not specifically state one way or the other what that order of operations is. Since there is no specific rule we have to go by the order of construction which is the closest thing to a rule that we have.

So by order of construction we start with Heavy armor. Then Mithral reduces it to Medium (for most purposes). Next we add on Celestial.
What happens? Well, Celestial does not state to reduce it one step. It states that Celestial Full Plate is treated as Medium armor. Thus, Mithral Celestial Full Plate it is now medium armor.

Of course, your system is Armor, Celestial, Mithral but that is not the order of construction and there is nothing in the rules to support this stance.

Crozekiel, you are absolutely correct that you cannot take +1 Steel Plate Armor and make it +1 Mithral Plate Armor. That is most certainly how the game works. There is no provision for taking +1 Steel Plate Armor and adding the Mithral to it.

However, you may add Mithral to non-magical Plate Armor when it is constructed at which point it is non-magical Mithral Plate Armor. Then you may make it magical.

Special Materials cannot be added after an item is manufactured and cannot be added after it is magical.

The process to create magical armor is as follows:
1) First some armorsmith uses the craft skill to make the non-magical armor. If he wants it to be made from a special material this is when that happens.
2) Second, someone with Craft Magic Arms and Armor makes the armor magical.

So, we have Mithral Plate Armor that has a specific set of stats (Plate + Mithral modifiers). Next, we have Celestial added on that has a specific set of stats that replaces whatever the original armor's stats are.

This is simply how the rules work. Now, you may want them to work otherwise but this is the Rules Forum. Feel free to house rule it however you want.

In any case, my position is clearly stated and unless there is some new information in this discussion I don't really see the point of debating "is not!" vs "is too!" any further.

Mithral is not and CANNOT be applied to Celestial Plate. You cannot change the material after construction so you cannot take Celestial Plate and make it Mithral.

However, if you apply Celestial Plate to Mithral Full Plate you will not benefit from the Mithral Plate because Celestial does not state it modifies the existing scores like Mithral does. Instead of modifying existing stats it replaces them and what it is replacing is Mithral Full Plate's stats.

To order your animal companion to do something that it is trained to do is a DC 10 Handle Animal check. The DC goes up by +2 if it is hurt.

Handle Animal is a move action to order an animal to do something it is trained to do. It is a free action for the 'owner' of an Animal Companion to order it to do something it is trained to do.

This is on CRB p97-98

Your animal having a higher than 2 intelligence and the ability to speak does not negate the need for Handle Animal. Link to blog

Animal Archive also explains what equipment slots different animal types have and has a number of interesting feats and archetypes for animals and familiars.

It is really a must have book for animal companions and useful for familiars too.

In the CRB the Attack trick costs two tricks if you want your animal companion to attack creatures other than humanoids, monstrous humanoids, and animals (such as unnatural creatures like undead).

CRB p97 wrote:
Attack (DC 20): The animal attacks apparent enemies. You may point to a particular creature that you wish the animal to attack, and it will comply if able. Normally, an animal will attack only humanoids, monstrous humanoids, or other animals. Teaching an animal to attack all creatures (including such unnatural creatures as undead and aberrations) counts as two tricks.

There are 12 (13 if you want the animal companion to attack unnatural creatures) tricks in the CRB and there are 17 tricks in Animal Archive for a total of 29 (30) tricks.

A level 20 Druid's animal companion with a 2 intelligence has 13 tricks. The CRB has enough to fill all of that but with the addition of Animal Archive's tricks there are more than you can ever choose.

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