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Goblin Squad Member. Pathfinder Society Member. 7,177 posts (7,185 including aliases). No reviews. 1 list. No wishlists. 1 Pathfinder Society character. 1 alias.


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master_marshmallow, that question has been answered. (Answer is no.)

CRB p376 wrote:
Imbue Arrow (Su): At 2nd level, an arcane archer gains the ability to place an area spell upon an arrow. When the arrow is fired, the spell’s area is centered where the arrow lands, even if the spell could normally be centered only on the caster. This ability allows the archer to use the bow’s range rather than the spell’s range. A spell cast in this way uses its standard casting time and the arcane archer can fire the arrow as part of the casting. The arrow must be fired during the round that the casting is completed or the spell is wasted. If the arrow misses, the spell is wasted.

There is no question here, the text clearly states that spells like Detonate are specifically centered on the arrow rather than the caster when using Imbue Arrow.

The 1 round comment is basically meaningless. It is an instantaneous spell with instantaneous damage.

Sometimes the fluff of a spell doesn't quite mesh with the facts of the spell. This is such a case.

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Since d20pfsrd is not an official rules source here you go: PRD (official rules source). You can also find this on pages 178-179 of the CRB.

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CRB p185 wrote:
Holding the Charge: If you don’t discharge the spell in the round when you cast the spell, you can hold the charge indefinitely. You can continue to make touch attacks round after round. If you touch anything or anyone while holding a charge, even unintentionally, the spell discharges. If you cast another spell, the touch spell dissipates. You can touch one friend as a standard action or up to six friends as a full-round action. Alternatively, you may make a normal unarmed attack (or an attack with a natural weapon) while holding a charge. In this case, you aren’t considered armed and you provoke attacks of opportunity as normal for the attack. If your unarmed attack or natural weapon attack normally doesn’t provoke attacks of opportunity, neither does this attack. If the attack hits, you deal normal damage for your unarmed attack or natural weapon and the spell discharges. If the attack misses, you are still holding the charge.
CRB p216 wrote:
Touch Spells and Holding the Charge: In most cases, if you don’t discharge a touch spell on the round you cast it, you can hold the charge (postpone the discharge of the spell) indefinitely. You can make touch attacks round after round until the spell is discharged. If you cast another spell, the touch spell dissipates.

Two different sections state that do not lose the held charge until you discharge it with a successful hit. Note: you can also lose the held charge if you touch something else (like a door) or by casting a new spell.

The Magus changes this in two ways: One, you can touch your weapon without discharging the spell. Two, you can channel a touch spell through your weapon in a regular attack. The Magus did not change that you keep the held charge until you successfully hit.

Not exactly Shadowlords, you could polymorph into undead or monstrous humanoids and still keep your gear.

CRB p212 wrote:
When you cast a polymorph spell that changes you into a creature of the animal, dragon, elemental, magical beast, plant, or vermin type, all of your gear melds into your body.

List of types not listed in the quote: Aberration, Construct, Fey, Monstrous Humanoid, Ooze, Outsider (that is not an elemental), Undead.

Of that list I can think of spells that allows you to change either the Monstrous Humanoid or Undead types. I do not know of any that allow you to become Aberrations, Constructs, Fey, Oozes, or non-Elemental Outsiders.

Summary: you do not have to change into Humanoid to keep your gear. You need to change into a type that is not listed in the quote.

W E Ray, looks like everyone already answered it. :)

You can absolutely use aid another checks on ability checks. It is up to the GM to determine if it is appropriate to the situation.
Example: A pair of players using strength to force a large door open.

Where do you see that Aid Another cannot be used for ability checks?

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ARG Statblock (page 202) does not list them as having Darkvision.
ARG Racebuilder (page 245) does list them as having Darkvision (for free as part of paying for being a Native Outsider). It then lists them as paying for Low-light vision.
Bestiary 3 (page 258) lists Suli as only having Low-Light vision (in violation of the basic rules for Native Outsiders).

This appears to be a case where the ARG is trying to fit the Bestiary and they should have offered a points refund for the Suli or at least not charged for Low-Light Vision.

SiuoL, I have already quoted the rules which state why you are not correct.

If an enemy takes 1, 2, 3, or 4 "Move" move actions in a round you only get ONE AoO for ALL of that movement.

It simply does not matter how many "Move" move actions are taken in a round, it all counts as a single opportunity per round as per the rules I quoted above.

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It doesn't matter how many actions the person provoking takes, moving out of more than one square counts as only one opportunity per round.

CRB p180 wrote:
Moving out of more than one square threatened by the same opponent in the same round doesn’t count as more than one opportunity for that opponent. All these attacks are at your full normal attack bonus.

Natural Armor = Natural Armor, it does not = Armor.

So, if you wear anything which gives you an Armor bonus (not a Natural Armor bonus) it does not work when merged with you due to a polymorph effect unless you have a different effect that states it does (such as the Wild property).

What you cannot use if it is merged:
Armor and Shield bonuses.

What you can use if it is merged and provides a constant bonus:
Natural Armor, Enhancement to Natural Armor, Deflection, Insight, Luck, Sacred/Profane, and Dodge bonuses.


If you have taken the -20 penalty, the ONLY effect is that you are not considered grappled and thus do not have the grapple penalties. It does not change any other element of the grapple rules. You still cannot move your target without performing a maintain check.

Lab_Rat, they are not the same opportunity. They use different criteria. The Greater Trip/Vicious Stomp FAQ effectively shows that two AoO triggering acts can be similar but if they are different they still work.

In this case the AoO triggers are different. Attacking and then Missing an Attack. This is just like casting a Ray spell provokes twice (once for the casting and once for the ray) even though it is the same action.

Summary: This is not the same AoO opportunity and what Ambrus is proposing should work.

Yes, No.

You can move a grappled foe if the rules allow it. Please show where "-20 and not considered grappled" allows you to move the grappled foe without a maintain check.

I see nothing in Iomedae's paladin code that would contradict the CRB paladin code and several things that expand upon it.

Which code do you plan on using? Since the problem is possible contradictions we should talk in specifics.

I would say that they supplement it. The CRB paladin codes are very basic while the Deity specific codes are more detailed and don't seem to contradict the CRB codes.

The only provision in the grapple rules for moving a grappled foe is to maintain your grapple. You cannot spring attack, grapple, and then drag the opponent back with you. You will have to wait until the next turn to maintain the grapple and then select the move option unless you have an option to roll another grapple check (such as Greater Grapple if you somehow have an extra move action on top of the full-round action).

Darksol, shields are stated as a slotted item on Ultimate Equipment page206.

Ultimate Equipment p206 wrote:
There are 15 categories of slotted wondrous items. Armor, rings, and shields are described in other sections of this book, while the 11 other body slots are detailed below.

Furthermore, there is no contradictory statement in Ultimate Equipment that negates or even can even be interpreted to be a negation of the text in the CRB.

You are drawing an incorrect conclusion when you state that item slots are generally for Wondrous Items. Just because the number of Wondrous Item slots outnumber the number of non-Wondrous Item slots does not in any way mean that only wondrous items are slotted.

Specifically, there are 4 slots that are not wondrous items (Armor, 2x Rings, and Shield).

Also, it is not wondrous items in core that lists the types of slots, it is in the general magic item rules on page 459.

In short, there is no book variation on whether magic shields take a shield slot. You cannot benefit from two shields with shield enhancements (bonuses and abilities) at the same time.

There is table variation on the interpretation of whether that applies to shields as a whole or shields used as a weapon vs used for defensive purposes.

It is reasonable, that on a second shield, weapon enhancements (bonuses and abilities) apply while shield enhancements (bonuses and abilities) do not since weapons do not have a slot limit.

Jeraa is correct, only one magic shield would be functional since you have only 1 magic shield slot (CRB p459).

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First, not a rules question. Flagging to be moved.

Second, watching that video there are several things to note.
1) We do not see a comparison between how they do those same actions in and out of armor so we have no idea how much the armor is actually hindering them.

2) Several of those actions (such as the jumping up and kicking feet together) appear quite ungainly in armor.
Assuming that the person performing the maneuvers was proficient in the maneuver it appears to have been much more difficult in armor.

3) We have no idea how much people have practiced in that armor to do those things.
That could be akin to the fighter's class ability Armor Training, the trait Armor Expert, and/or having Masterwork armor.
Alternately, it could be akin to having many ranks in the skill.

4) We did not see them try to scale a wall without a ladder using either a rope or freeclimb (climb skill), walk a thin ledge (acrobatics skill), or swim in a lake/river (swim skill).

So, that video can neither support nor contradict a -6 penalty as it provides insufficient evidence but the person performing those maneuvers certainly did appear to be ungainly.

Damanta, the Dire Collar is not a polymorph effect, it is a size changing effect (as per Enlarge Person). Thus, you do not adjust the size to medium.

Breath of Life was originally called (by James Jacobs in development) "Cure Deadly Wounds". Jason Bulmahn renamed it to Breath of Life. Link

Many people houserule it back to Cure Deadly Wounds.

Ipslore the Red wrote:
You cannot craft spell trigger or completion items with metamagic feats.

Do you have citation for this? There is nothing in the rules preventing you from doing metamagicked spell trigger or spell completion items provided they obey the other rules.

The rule you are looking for is on CRB p553 under "Adding New Abilities". You can upgrade a Lesser Rod by paying the difference between the lesser form and the superior form.

Note: PFS has it's own special rules that may prevent this.

ancientdm, here is a FAQ that covers damage increases.

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This really falls under common sense more than strict RAW. If you cannot use a feat because you have lost the prerequisite you cannot count as an ally who possesses the feat.

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In which Pathfinder book is the class on makeup (Rouge) published? I must've missed that one. :D

In Pathfinder, being incorporeal has nothing to do with the Ethereal Plane, you may be thinking of how 3.5 ran incorporeal creatures and the ethereal plane.

You can see incorporeal creatures fine without magic (unless a specific incorporeal creature has wording to the contrary).

Mark Hoover,

Correct, you do not need the spell (increase the DC by 5, unless it is spell-trigger, spell-completion or potion) and your Valet familiar effectively decreases the time it takes to craft items. These are in the rules.

The line, "You can assist another character in crafting mundane and magical items. You must both possess the relevant Craft skill or item creation feat, but either one of you can fulfill any other prerequisites for crafting the item." is not necessary as there are already rules allowing you to do all of that.

Anyone can help anyone else craft a magic item and provide the pre-requisites. That is already in the core rules.

CRB p549 wrote:
Note that all items have prerequisites in their descriptions. These prerequisites must be met for the item to be created. Most of the time, they take the form of spells that must be known by the item’s creator (although access through another magic item or spellcaster is allowed). The DC to create a magic item increases by +5 for each prerequisite the caster does not meet. The only exception to this is the requisite item creation feat, which is mandatory. In addition, you cannot create potions, spell-trigger, or spell-completion magic items without meeting their spell prerequisites.

You can also use aid another to provide a bonus to a skill check, if you can perform the skill on your own.

CRB p86 Aid Another wrote:

You can help someone achieve success on a skill check by making the same kind of skill check in a cooperative effort. If you roll a 10 or higher on your check, the character you’re helping gets a +2 bonus on his or her check. (You can’t take 10 on a skill check to aid another.) In many cases, a character’s help won’t be beneficial, or only a limited number of characters can help at once.

In cases where the skill restricts who can achieve certain results, such as trying to open a lock using Disable Device, you can’t aid another to grant a bonus to a task that your character couldn’t achieve alone. The GM might impose further restrictions to aiding another on a case-by-case basis as well.

In short, the bonuses provided by the feat Cooperative Crafting are: +2 Circumstance bonus to make an item and you increase the amount you can craft to double per day (instead of 1,000gp per day it is now 2,000gp per day). When you accelerate crafting an item (+5 DC) that means you can and your buddy can effectively quarter the time it takes to make an item.

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Get a Ring of Eloquence. It specifically works while polymorphed into forms that cannot speak (and, it is cheaper).

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Everything you have stated is correct.

You can also halve the crafting time by increasing the DC by 5.


1) Composite Longbows count as Longbows for feats that require a Longbow.

CRB p147 wrote:
For purposes of Weapon Proficiency and similar feats, a composite longbow is treated as if it were a longbow.

2) Composite Longbows have a strength rating that starts at +0 and goes up. The strength rating allows you to add your strength modifier to damage up to that value. If your strength modifier is below that value you have a -2 penalty to attack. If you have a strength modifier that is negative you also have that as a penalty to damage.

CRB p147 wrote:
All composite bows are made with a particular strength rating (that is, each requires a minimum Strength modifier to use with proficiency). If your Strength bonus is less than the strength rating of the composite bow, you can’t effectively use it, so you take a –2 penalty on attacks with it. The default composite longbow requires a Strength modifier of +0 or higher to use with proficiency. A composite longbow can be made with a high strength rating to take advantage of an above-average Strength score; this feature allows you to add your Strength bonus to damage, up to the maximum bonus indicated for the bow. Each point of Strength bonus granted by the bow adds 100 gp to its cost. If you have a penalty for low Strength, apply it to damage rolls when you use a composite longbow.

3) A bow's enhancement score (magic bonus) applies to the arrow's attack and damage.

CRB p468 wrote:
Ranged Weapons and Ammunition: The enhancement bonus from a ranged weapon does not stack with the enhancement bonus from ammunition. Only the higher of the two enhancement bonuses applies.

4) Additionally, since the magic of the bow is imparted on the arrow, it effectively has the same enhancement bonus the bow has for purposes of bypassing DR.

CRB p468 wrote:
Ammunition fired from a projectile weapon with an enhancement bonus of +1 or higher is treated as a magic weapon for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction. Similarly, ammunition fired from a projectile weapon with an alignment gains the alignment of that projectile weapon.

You seem to think that number 4 contradicts number 3. It doesn't, it is just spelling it out in great detail so that rules lawyers don't get confused.

In short, you are overthinking it. The arrow has all the same bonuses that the bow has.

Morgause, if this is the same as the Clockwork Servant in the Bestiary 3 then no, you cannot because the net ability has a specific action associated with it (standard).

You may want to copy/paste the relevant ability.

Generic Villain wrote:

As a rule, no*. You can't swing a sword and fire a bow with the same full attack action, and as DM_Blake pointed out, monsters also have to go with one or the other. There are some monsters who have specific special abilities that allow them to use ranged attacks and melee attacks simultaneously, but they are the exception.

And honestly, I'm trying to think of one of those exceptions and can't. They're pretty rare.

*EDIT: Kobold cleaver's example not withstanding.

You misread DM_Blakes statement. He was pointing out that you cannot use the tail as both a melee and and as a ranged weapon in the same round because it is the same limb. But, you could do either in combination with other attacks.

For example you cannot: Claw/Claw/Bite/Tail/Shoot tail spikes
but you can: Claw/Claw/Bite/(Tail OR Shoot Tail Spikes)

Note: this assumes that the ranged attack does not have a specific attack action such as the Manticore's tail spikes.

Do you have a specific example in mind?

Kalindlara answered it.

Here is some context:
Spells and Spell-like abilities provoke regardless of what the Spell or Spell-like ability actually does. However, they may also provoke a second time if they do something, such as a ranged attack, that provokes.

Supernatural abilities do not provoke unless it does something that also provokes, such as a ranged attack.

So, if you cast a ranged attack spell (such as Scorching Ray) you provoke twice. Once for casting and once for the ranged attack.
If you use a supernatural ability that is similar to Scorching Ray (such as Eldritch Blast) you provoke once, for the ranged attack only.

Additionally, there may be special wording in some supernatural abilities that states they provoke. This would be an exception to the normal rule that supernatural abilities do not provoke.

Fighting Defensively is not the same as Casting Defensively. They are two separate things.

Casting Defensively: You avoid an AoO due to spellcasting. Make a concentration check to successfully cast a spell.

Fighting Defensively: Take a -4 attack penalty and gain a +2 dodge bonus to your AC.

If you are using Spell Combat and Casting Defensively and you take a -3attack penalty for casting defensively then you have a -5 attack penalty and a +3 bonus (+5 at level 8) to casting defensively.

If you are also fighting defensively then you take an additional -4 attack penalty and gain a +2 AC bonus.

I think you may be confusing separate things. What you have here is multiple penalties from different sources. Since penalties stack they all apply.

You decide the amount of the penalty to attack (up to your Intelligence bonus) and add the same number to your concentration check.

So, if your intelligence bonus is a +3 you can do -1attack/+1concentration, -2attack/+2concentration, or a -3attack/+3concentration.

At 8th level you get an extra +2 bonus to your concentration check (for no penalty).
At 14th level the bonus you get is doubled (-1attack= +2concentration and so on).

20) Realizing that Golarion is not Earth and that Golarion need not have suffered a cataclysm (meteor) that wiped out the dinosaurs.

kestral287, unless a spell provides a specific exception (such as D-Door providing a result of what happens when you try to teleport inside an object) the general rule stating that you cannot do it is in force.

I second Skeld's statement.

Pathfinder and reality have about as much to do with each other as religion and science. If you look too deeply at the Pathfinder rules and try to compare it to reality then one of them fails. I will let you decide which one fails.

kestral287, what do you mean by 'all of the teleport schools (spells) already call that one out though'?

The quote I provided is the answer to why the OPs scenario does not work.

This is already covered:

CRB p209 wrote:
A creature or object brought into being or transported to your location by a conjuration spell cannot appear inside another creature or object, nor can it appear floating in an empty space. It must arrive in an open location on a surface capable of supporting it.

Note: people argue that this does not cover dimension door since that is not 'your location' but the intent of the rule is quite clear. You cannot teleport into another creature.

Surprise Round: 1, 2, and 3 (in that order) get standard actions.
Round 1: 1, 2, and 3 (in that order) get full-round actions.
and so on....

Surprise Round: 1, 2 but not 3 (in that order) get standard actions.
Round 1: 3, 1, and 2 (in that order) get full-round actions.
and so on...

Yes, he is pulling his full-round action from later in round 1 up to a higher initiative. Yes, I (now) agree that is gaming the system.
But, contrary to what you stated, he is most certainly losing a standard action in the course of the battle to do this trick.

bbangerter wrote:
LazarX wrote:

You're losing your action in the surprise round if you delay past the end of it. Bonus: Since you haven't acted, you're still flatfooted until you do.

Not really. You don't lose actions in a round due to delaying unless the init order gets back to you and you still have not acted. (Flat footed is a separate issue, and personally if a person chose to delay I would not leave them flat footed - they could have acted, the idea that because they are intentionally waiting for something else before taking full aggressive action meaning they can't be defensive is silly).

Normal things with no one delaying

Surprise Round
Creature 1 single action
Creature 2 single action
Creature 3 single action

Normal round(s)
Creature 1 full action
Creature 2 full action
Creature 3 full action
Repeat normal round till combat is over

If creature 3 delays:
Surprise Round
Creature 1 single action
Creature 2 single action
Creature 3 delays till start of the normal rounds

Normal round(s)
Creature 3 full action (gaming the system if he gets a full round action)
Creature 1 full action
Creature 2 full action
Repeat normal round till combat is over

In both cases its 1, 2, 3, 1, 2, 3, 1, 2, 3... repeating.
In the second case if 3 gets a full round action he lost nothing, instead he effectively got a full round action in during the surprise round instead.

Creature 1 has no reason to delay till the normal round, if he does then yes he does lose his surprise round action as it his turn right after 3 is done.
2 could delay till after 3 and then take his surprise round action (in the way I adjudicate this). If he delays till after 1's normal round, then he has lost his surprise round action.

I have to disagree with the results (conclusion) of your example. Creature 3 has absolutely lost an action, a standard action while moving his Full-Round action to the top of the list.

Any way you slice it he loses that standard action when measuring actions over multiple rounds.

Hmmm, good point.

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