When are will saves NOT mind affecting?


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

Silver Crusade

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So I've been looking at this feat right here
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/steadfast-personality/
At first glance seems kind of limited, then i had to ask how many will saves WOULDN'T be mentally inclined?

Honestly seems like a flat boon for any charisma based person with the exception of paladin.


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It's mostly illusions, but there are still nasty things like Bestow Curse, Harm, and Magic Jar that ask for a will save and aren't mind affecting.


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Plane Shift.


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A lot of it is necromancy stuff. And curses.

So still fairly nasty.

But I'd still feel fairly safe if you are really, really good against mind affecting. That takes care of most of the 'kill your friends' saves.


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Telekinesis, imprisonment, inflict wounds, harm, forbiddance, sanctuary, repulsion, order's wrath and analogous spells for other alignments, glitterdust, chill/heat metal, soul bind, scrying, pyrotechnics. To name a few...

Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Slow


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Mydriadic Spontaneity


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I think there are magic items that make someone make a Will save w/o saying "this is a mind-affecting effect," though I can't think of examples offhand.


Cursed items, I believe.

Also, I don't remember if Ego checks are a thing?


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Also, I think that feat was errated so that it affects all Will saves.

Hooray!


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Malik Gyan Daumantas wrote:

So I've been looking at this feat right here

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/steadfast-personality/
At first glance seems kind of limited, then i had to ask how many will saves WOULDN'T be mentally inclined?

Honestly seems like a flat boon for any charisma based person with the exception of paladin.

Mind affecting doesn't mean 'anything which might be mentally inclined'. It is a specific tag that is added to spells and certain other effects.

For example, Hold Person says:
School enchantment (compulsion) [mind-affecting]


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Ventnor wrote:

Also, I think that feat was errated so that it affects all Will saves.

Hooray!

FAQ says otherwise.


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Pathfinder Companion, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Lots of the better hexes are mind-affecting. It's a problem for my GM witch PC right now since there are lots of things with immunity so far.


lemeres wrote:

A lot of it is necromancy stuff. And curses.

So still fairly nasty.

But I'd still feel fairly safe if you are really, really good against mind affecting. That takes care of most of the 'kill your friends' saves.

Isn't necromancy mostly Fort save based? Last time I played a necromancer, I had the biggest trouble because all my spells were fort saves, and I just could not take the barbarian/frenzied berserker out of commission.


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Ventnor wrote:

Also, I think that feat was errated so that it affects all Will saves.

Hooray!

IIRC it went the other way - I think that the first version worked for all Will saves and then it was errated into being restricted to mind-affecting Will saves. I am not 100% sure on that, though. I might confused this feat with a very similar 3.5 one.


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There's about a thousand monster abilities which are will saves but not mind affecting. The last one I saw was an ooze which had an 'aura' of sleep spores.

Not everything has class levels.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32

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There's a monster kicking around out there that has a poison breath weapon that grants a Will save. Yeah, that's pretty oddball.


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Pathfinder Companion, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Saves (as well as other properties in general) get pretty weird sometimes. One of the hexes can be broken with break enchantment, but it is specifically listed as an abjuration effect. Go figure.

Shadow Lodge

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Channel negative energy


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Teleport against own will is another one.


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Anything that doesn't have the [Mind Affecting] tag on it is not mind affecting.


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Klorox wrote:
lemeres wrote:

A lot of it is necromancy stuff. And curses.

So still fairly nasty.

But I'd still feel fairly safe if you are really, really good against mind affecting. That takes care of most of the 'kill your friends' saves.

Isn't necromancy mostly Fort save based? Last time I played a necromancer, I had the biggest trouble because all my spells were fort saves, and I just could not take the barbarian/frenzied berserker out of commission.

I am not saying that a lot of necromancy is will based... but a lot of non-mind affecting will saves are necromancy (when they aren't curse).

If it is necromancy, and not a fort save (which is likely life stuff), then it is probably soul stuff. And that gets a will save.

I will not speak on the combat effectiveness of this subset. It is often utility stuff (like create soul gem, which is "and stay dead" insurance) or some minor benefit (which is why everyone ends up going for the fort saves instead- those are spells bumping up against the hardest monster saves, so they tend to be sweeter).


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Pathfinder Companion, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Saldiven wrote:
Anything that doesn't have the [Mind Affecting] tag on it is not mind affecting.

There are a few things that don't specifically list mind-affecting, but instead list enchantment. Enchantments are all mind-affecting, however, so it's indirectly tagged.


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taks wrote:
Saldiven wrote:
Anything that doesn't have the [Mind Affecting] tag on it is not mind affecting.
There are a few things that don't specifically list mind-affecting, but instead list enchantment. Enchantments are all mind-affecting, however, so it's indirectly tagged.

Correct; I was being overly simplistic.

There are also a wide variety of non-spell Supernatural Abilities that appear in the Bestiary that will not have the [Mind Affecting] tag on them, but the description will state whether or not it is Mind Affecting, such as the Allip's "Babble" ability:

"Babble (Su) An allip constantly mutters to itself, creating a hypnotic effect. All sane creatures within 60 feet of the allip must succeed at a DC 15 Will save or be fascinated for 2d4 rounds. While a target is fascinated, the allip can approach it without breaking the effect, but an attack by the allip does end the effect. Creatures that successfully save cannot be affected by the same allip’s babble for 24 hours. This is a sonic, mind-affecting compulsion effect. The save DC is Charisma-based."


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Pathfinder Companion, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

They are nothing if not inconsistent. ;)

To be fair, the game is so massive and so many people contribute, the cohesion they do have is amazing.

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