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Ogre Mancatcher

EntrerisShadow's page

Pathfinder Society Member. 828 posts. No reviews. 1 list. No wishlists. 2 Pathfinder Society characters. 2 aliases.


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Grand Lodge

MMCJawa wrote:
I have to confess being extraordinarly interested in threads that get modded, which half the time increases with Chris Lamberts description of why the thread got modded.

That. Especially when he mentions deleting posts.



I love gnomes and would probably the player to mutiny if they were removed.

I like silliness and light fantasy. I knew 4E would not be for me when they replaced Gnomes with Tieflings as a core race.

Grand Lodge

Artemis Moonstar wrote:

Being villainous IS fun.

Ulfric wouldn't be so bad if it weren't for the consequences I know were coming, or if he wasn't such an ass. Then again, most everyone is an ass, and I can't wait for a PC that can run Skyrim with that "true high king" mod that'll let me MURDERHOBO ULFRIC AND TULLIUS without breaking the quest line.

Legion I can do if I ignore all the dialogue. They're just anathema to my very core, and I haven't quite figured out why. Probably never will. I actually find myself agreeing with a LOT of their policies. I still hate them.

Cutting loose in games is a fantastic stress relief, and has actually had many studies proven that it'll help people with propensities to such acts to NOT do them in real life. Everyone has a demonic hideous little monster inside of them. It's why we carjack and drive like maniacs in games like GTA, or brutally murderhobo that random NPC that insulted us in Skyrim with a stealth arrow to the FACE, or bring down the wrath of heaven with the Archemedes lazor in New Vegas in the middle of a heavily populated area because a thug decided to try and mug ya. Hell, I regularly set up intricate and twisted ways of killing Nazeem in Whiterun because one can live out violent revenge fantasies that way (and I have a LOT of reason to have a LOT of them, lol).

Drugs wouldn't sell well either.

More back on topic: I really, really, really wanna give Way of the Wicked a try... And I can't freaking wait for Paizo's Evil AP.

See I actually thought Tullius was pretty good (see: Defending Whiterun) and besides he wasn't going to rule - Elisif was. She was young and naive, but surrounded herself with smart advisors and even was loyal enough to seek Talos' blessing on her husband's behalf.

Ok no more Skyrim I promise.

Grand Lodge

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Kthulwho? wrote:

It annoys me when someone manages to misspell my alias even when they are making a QUOTE.

I mean, for f#!&'s sake, the quote system automatically puts my name there. You have to actually make the effort to go change it to something incorrect. How the F*#* does that happen?

I am guessing this was probably from my earlier response and the reason is I had to copy+paste and fill in the quote tags myself since I was replying to two separate posts. I always forget the second "h", so, er... my bad.

Grand Lodge

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Aniuś the Talewise wrote:
EntrerisShadow wrote:
And yet oddly, despite the genocidal rampage, I can still never find it in me to join with Ulfric. I find him distasteful.

Yeah he's really not much better than the Thalmor in my opinion.

it's been years since I played Skyrim, but I remember back when I was actively playing I wrote a letter/essay from the perspective of my Dragonborn as to why she in the end chose to assist the empire though she was at heart sympathetic to the cause of Skyrim independence.

Unfortunately the letter is on the old hard drive of my dead computer and I can't access it.

Though I'm sure if I got an opportunity to play Skyrim again and remake the same character it might all come back to me.

Well that and (spoilers ahead):

Ulfric was a Thalmor agent meant to destabilize the empire and make Skyrim/Cyrodill easier to invade. They even mention that had he simply made his case to Torygg, Skyrim would have seceded as one and presented a much stronger front. So really even if you hate the Thalmor, The Empire is your best bet.

Even though Redguards are my favorite race to play and Hammerfell declared independence, I can never bring myself to side with the racist sleeper agent specifically propped up to further the Elf Nazis' cause. (Though I like to headcanon it's just to reunite Skyrim as Asa united front against the Empire and then the Thalmor.)

Edit: Ooh, and I almost forgot the rank hypocrisy over the Markarth incident.

So yeah I can never see any good reason to go Stormcloak.

Grand Lodge

Zhangar wrote:

@ EntrerisShadow - probably because trying to directly address Christianity itself in a Pathfinder product would've provoked an extremely toxic response.

Both from the people angry that it's "wrong" and from people angry that it was attempted at all.

I feel like maybe I'm not making my point correctly here? Because I have said from the start that they shouldn't include real world religions. I actually said that pretty flatly in my last post. The argument is whether having things influenced by religious lore that don't call it out by name is the same as having that religion in the game - and I say no.

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Snowblind wrote:
Soooo many ways to break Skyrim...

I think Skyrim kind of plays on a gentleman's agreement that you'll do things the 'right' way and have balanced skills. Of course once you've dumped 10 hours buying and selling to raise Speech by 3 points, you say screw it and do the trick to get speech to 100 in one transaction because tedious.

My favorite, although not necessarily most powerful, thing to do is max out illusion so I can get Mayhem from the guy at the college. (Best place so far: Riften, though Whiterun had its moments.) I could almost end the civil war by default just by causing everyone to murder each other.

And yet oddly, despite the genocidal rampage, I can still never find it in me to join with Ulfric. I find him distasteful.

Grand Lodge

Kthulu wrote:
RDM42 wrote:
Today? Everything from Mettalica to Mozart.
My confession: I liked Metallica better before a bus fell on the most/only talented member of the band.

I don't know if that qualifies as a confession so much as objective fact.

Skyrim Rampage Cap'n Yesterday wrote:

I find the CR for Skyrim to be incredibly annoying, it's either they fall before the awesomeness of my rampage or it's Hulk vs Loki, with me being Loki, it's frustrating:-(

A beautiful game tho that's for sure :-)

Really? I've found the only way for me to truly hulk out is to break the system. (Like using the Resto loop or Telekinesis trick)

But for a good challenge that's not absurd I usually go Sword and Board on Expert mode with my smithing maxed out for Dragon Plate.

Of course once you put the time into enchanting all bets are off. Just like 3.PF, Magic > Everything Else.

Grand Lodge

Gorbacz wrote:
Soooo... Christianity is LG (except for bloody Protestant heathens, who are NE), Judaism is LN, Islam is CE? Oh, wait, bringing real world religions into D&D actually *is* a terribad idea, I forgot.

Er, yes? We're in total agreement - taking actual real world religious philosophies and slapping a D&D alignment on them isn't really a great idea.

Although I think I've stated it elsewhere, my biggest issue with Rahadoum isn't what terms they decide to call it - the biggest is that it just doesn't make any damn sense whatsoever to me. I keep trying to wrap my head around how it would work, and I just can't.

A misotheistic society just makes no sense in the world of Golarion. And I know the back story and the explanation, but seriously, REALLY break it down and there's no way to justify it without committing to colossal stupidity or insanity. Unless you pared the options way back, it's always going to strike me as kind of stupid that a whole nation decided there wasn't a single redeemable god in the whole bunch. You would think at least Irori might squeak in, but no.

Also I don't know if you can call a nation "LN" when its main government enforcement agency's description reads like an excerpt from 1984.

Yakman wrote:
EntrerisShadow wrote:
As for what exists on earth, if I recall I don't believe the Reign of Winter AP ever delved into the religions here or anything about Russia's political climate.

didn't read Reign of Winter, but from my understanding it does take place in Russia during the 1917 Revolution, and it does feature Rasputin, who, IRL, was an Orthodox mystic.

So... these things are in the Pathfinder Universe, even if there's no commentary about them.

I really do not understand why people won't make the distinction between having things that are inspired by something and outright including them. Like I literally just went over this in the response you're quoting --- they have things inspired by Christianity, but they do not include actual Christianity. Jesus? Never mentioned. The Bible? Doesn't come up.

That being said MAGIC, DRAGONS, ELVES. It's a game. People who take it too seriously, or get into a huff about a particular adventure writer's perspectives should re-assess their priorities.

I don't think that's a great attitude, and one I really hope Paizo would never subscribe to. Pardon if I'm misunderstanding, but it kind of sounds like you're saying if they did include Christianity and Islam and slapped "LG" on one and "LN/LE" on another you would say, "Eh, no big deal - people really shouldn't get in a huff over these kinds of things. It's a game after all and that's just the adventure writer's perspective."

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Paul Watson wrote:
Pixie, the Leng Queen wrote:
Aso for the soldier thing, you know why they DONT just executed war prisoners? Simple, politicS. Most civilized countries have agreed to certain rules with which to operate. Same reason the US doesnt just nuke something, Sure WE COULD. The political ramifications are too steep for the country to risk. Same thing. Most countries dont treat soldiers as murderers because they were under the order of thoer state. Now if they went beyond their orders then they become war criminals.
"I was just following orders" hasn't been a valid excuse since the 40s. Orders have to be lawful to be followed and, if not, you can be a war criminal even if you followed your orders to the letter. Of course, just because you've committed war crimes, doesn't mean you'll actually be prosecuted. Neither of which is a place where an un-fallen Paladin should find themselves.

I feel like it should also be pointed out here that in war it's not uncommon for people on opposite sides of a war to understand the situation and respect one another, even if they are fighting them.

The British have a memorial to George Washington. The Red Baron was given a tribute by Allied Forces. There are examples and stories throughout history where soldiers on opposing sides of war come to have a respect or admiration for each other, despite the necessities of war. So I don't think it's as simple as "to one side he's a hero, to the other a murderer."

Also objective morality exists in Pathfinder. Good is objectively defined. Nowhere in that definition does it say, "Following your deity's orders no matter how cockamamie or trumped up they may be." Unlike theology in the real world, Occam's Razor has been definitively solved by having a power higher than the higher powers --- the dev team who wrote the rules.

Grand Lodge

Lukas Stariha wrote:
Ustalavic Duelist Fighter gets a shout-out because at level 13 it gives you the ability to use your weapon for dirty trick, trip and disarm combat maneuvers... Something everyone can already do.

While that particular tradeoff is bad, the rest doesn't seem awful per se. (Although my guess is this was also a mistake in the wording and the weapon should function as though it has the Trip and Disarm properties.)

You trade out the Bonus Feat for a Dodge bonus to AC, but since you also get Armor Training this makes Medium Armor much better.

Also auto-max damage on Crits? That would be great for a crit fishing build, especially if you had some way of getting Lead Blades. Plus the ability damage at the higher levels could have great synergy with some of the Critical Feats fighters get.

I mean, it's a Fighter - so still bottom rung, but I could actually see choosing this over a vanilla fighter for several builds. (Particularly if I were doing an Inigo Montoya ripoff type.)

Grand Lodge

DM Beckett wrote:
I just want to say that Golarion does officially have links to at least a fantasy version of the real world. In the Mummy's Mask AP, there are hints that Ancient Osirion came from Egypt, including the Egyptian pantheon.

True, but you cannot really compare old pantheons to modern day religions. Greek/Norse/Egyptian mythology today are treated as literature and folklore, not like the actual current beliefs of millions of people.

In Reign of Winter there is the whole but about Russia. And finally in Artifacts and Legends, a Campaign Setting book, we have the very neutered Saint Cuthberts Mace. So it is not at all true that Judaism, Islam, or Christianity should/do not exist in the setting.

That's not quite accurate. There are things inspired by Christian - and Hindu and Muslim and Jewish - mythology, but what's not included is a group of people who are designated as Christians that believe in the death and resurrection of a man named Jesus. Just like there are no followers of the prophet Muhammad called Muslims or reincarnations of the Dalai Lama or anything of the sort.

The influence is there, but the religions themselves are not. Just like the stat block St Cuthbert's Mace nowhere mentions the church or Christianity. The mace was inspired by the story of St Cuthbert, but can as easily be something else.

As for what exists on earth, if I recall I don't believe the Reign of Winter AP ever delved into the religions here or anything about Russia's political climate.

Which is wise. You shouldn't pack such loaded things into an RPG where they will more than likely be mishandled.

And while there is a degree of bias amongst the devs, and notably when it comes to sexuality, gender, and atheism, I would have to say that this seems to at least have been a step in the right direction by some of the comments that had been removed.

We can agree to disagree on that. Like I said, I feel like it wasn't any more heated than a lot of the posts (particularly on gender or sexuality) have gotten.

Grand Lodge

Lemmy wrote:
EntrerisShadow wrote:
chaoseffect wrote:
Lemmy wrote:

Literally any Rogue archetype that isn't Scout, Thug or Knife Master... Maybe another one or two. I don't know, I don't keep up with Rogue archetypes.

(And Ninjas are technically a separate class, for some reason).

Vexing Dodger definitely seems to have potential.

Actually, I don't think that looks that bad. Dirty Trick is one of the better maneuvers and you actually get some bonuses to it.

Of course, that might be because trapfinding/sense almost never come up in my games, and Uncanny Dodge is situational enough that trading it out is never that big of a sting.

I'm pretty sure that's what chaoseffect meant... That it has the potential to be a good archetype.

Ah got it. Sorry I misread that as has potential to be in the Hall of Shame.

Grand Lodge

chaoseffect wrote:
Lemmy wrote:

Literally any Rogue archetype that isn't Scout, Thug or Knife Master... Maybe another one or two. I don't know, I don't keep up with Rogue archetypes.

(And Ninjas are technically a separate class, for some reason).

Vexing Dodger definitely seems to have potential.

Actually, I don't think that looks that bad. Dirty Trick is one of the better maneuvers and you actually get some bonuses to it.

Of course, that might be because trapfinding/sense almost never come up in my games, and Uncanny Dodge is situational enough that trading it out is never that big of a sting.

Grand Lodge

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knightnday wrote:
Jiggy wrote:
knightnday wrote:
If the game doesn't do what you want, don't play it!
This is what I said my solution was, and people wanted to challenge me on it. I've just been dialoging since then to elaborate on the "why"s because people asked. :)

Heh, yeah I never find that the "why" is good enough for some people. It's like "I don't like Pink Floyd."


Because I don't like Pink Floyd. I tried it, I don't like it.

Have you listened to X song?

I don't like Pink Floyd. I am pretty sure that I won't like that song.

But Why??

I try to just leave it at I don't like something rather than having to justify it. There are people that will try to force you to like it as if they are your Mom trying to get you to try new food when you are a kid.

Wait, hold everything - you don't like Pink Floyd?

But . . . why?!

(OK, I made the obvious joke. It's now copyrighted and no one else can make it without paying me a royalty.)

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Angstspawn wrote:

Lets assume a ruling LG decides to end the world and take to heaven most souls. Forbidding suicide in his ethos he gave to his most faithful followers and paladins the order to kill all the population, especially the sinless ones.

1. How should paladins of that deity react?
2. Accepting the order, would paladins keep their status and alignment?
3. If some paladins refuse, can they still be paladin?
4. If paladins refusing loose their status, what should be their new alignment?


No! No to all of this! What even . . . I mean, wha-? I don't, I can't .... I mean, seriously, what?

Is this what all of our alignment debate has lead to?! Dear god what have we done?

Grand Lodge

Chris Lambertz wrote:
Removed a couple posts and a reminder: let's keep the real world political and religious commentary out of the Campaign Setting forums.

I'm gonna keep this short, because it's been threadjacked enough, but I really just have to vent a little frustration at this response. And I know it won't change anyone's mind, or bring it back, and it's Paizo's board to do with as they see fit - but this has been gnawing at the back of my mind for a little bit.

There was already a TON of real world political/religious commentary in this thread. (Heck almost every post after this was a discussion of the American political climate!) But you, Paizo, invited that when you used a real-world term (inaccurately) to describe something in a fictional setting. Christianity, Judiasm, and Islam make no sense in the world of Golarion - so you don't stamp the name on some Golarion-specific religion that embodies its worst stereotypes.

If you don't want 'real world' religious discussions about your campaign setting, then don't use a real world term. Or at the very least if you have to use a term with real world corollaries, A) use the correct one, and B) really consider what the implications are when you use it.

I guess you could argue the censorship was because the posts were getting too 'heated', but I feel like if you changed some of the variables here my post and the following responses wouldn't have been erased. I can point to several much more heated exchanges about gender or sexuality that not only weren't deleted, but the Devs even joined in.

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How has nobody mentioned "Feral Child" yet? I would call it the worst option in all of Pathfinder.

It gives up !@#$ing wildshape in exchange for . . . trap sense and a situational bonus to CMD. JUST CMD. So to be clear, Devs, that you consider trap sense to be so freaking amazing that it's worth giving up:

-Ability increase
-Natural Armor

Adding insult to injury is that she could still get the CMD bonus by flying in th first place.

It's sad, too, because a Tarzan type human-only Druid could've been REALLY cool - but instead you get a Druid that trades out one of its most iconic features for what is widely considered one of the most useless rogue features.

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Milo v3 wrote:

Something I find weird is that people say that new material is better than core. But... if you look at occult adventures you see four tier 3 classes, a tier 2 class and a tier 4/5 class....

Even if you look at ACG: 1 tier 1, 1 tier 2, 4 tier 3, 3 tier 4s, and a tier 5.

Things are generally on the average to lower powers scale with the new material.

TIER 1: Arcanist; Tier 2: Shaman, Tier 3: Bloodrager, Investigator, Hunter, Skald; Tier 4: Slayer, Brawler; Tier 5: Swashbuckler?

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder was the first RPG I ever played (OK, well technically I was introduced to it at a 3.5 game where a friend let me play as the caster's golem to learn the mechanics - but my first REAL game was Pathfinder) so it holds a special place in my heart.

On the other hand, once I became more involved and started tinkering with neat concepts I wanted to try, I learned how eagerly Paizo likes to fix things that weren't broken. And a minor gripe, really, but I have noticed the quality in printed material has declined --- it feels like from Ultimate Combat on I didn't have to search hard to find glaring omissions, typos and just general issues with the type face. (The ACG was the worst offender I found - but I didn't buy Unchained or Occult Adventures.)

Do I like the game? Yes. But not like I used to. And I still appreciate Paizo's commitment to representation (unfortunate misuse of the term atheist and the implications it brings aside) and even, it feels like, influencing WotC for the better. But the mechanics themselves --- the more I play, especially compared to other systems, the more I see the cracks and the more I gravitate away from it.

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Aniuś the Talewise wrote:

I confess that I hate those haughty pointy-eared elves with a passion and thus in my world they rule an oppressive and violent empire in which they have enslaved civilizations of every race except gnomes, from whom they keep their distance and tend to treat as second-class citizens anyway)

Yeah I'm a classic dwarf.

(But seriously, no offense intended to people who like elves or play elf characters c: )

I don't hate elves, but I typically play elves the same way. Why?

Elves are damn near immortal, mystical, and supposedly very intelligent. They never have the problems that humans have and are almost always presented as superior in nearly every way.

My thought was, with the crapsack worlds most RPG lands tend to be, why on earth would these beings let mankind run the show?

Elves in my homebrew world have a continent spanning empire and are largely in charge of things. It's a patrician, gentle sort of tyranny - they see humans less as animals to be broken and more as unruly children that need the adults to corral them for their own safety. They'll even give them some nominal responsibility the way you might let your kid be in "charge" of the family pet or some chore. But it is tyranny nonetheless.

The difference being that they don't mess with Dwarves (the Dwarves have the underground, which holds no interest, and besides, provides a nice bulwark against Drow - who aren't actually evil, per se, but it'd be way too long to explain here) and still kill Orcs and Goblinoids on sight.

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captain yesterday wrote:
I always hoped for the day when Artemis Entreri would kill Drizz't, I wouldn't know if it happened yet as I stopped reading his books after The Ghost King the worst book I ever bought, in hard cover :-)

I couldn't read much past The Pirate King. It's clear Salvatore is tired of Drizzt - which I understand and would be fine with, except the newer characters he's attempted to introduce I find very uninteresting.

Though I always liked Entreri better anyway (obviously) and thought that the Sellswords series was better than anything he'd done since The Dark Elf Trilogy.

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I confess that now that my group has largely switched to 5E, I miss doing some of the absurd gamebreaking stuff Pathfinder let me get away with.

-Nearly impossible to beat Enchantment DCs.
-+18 stealth at Level 1
-Halfling Cavalier who could 300+ damage on a charge

I know those are all signs of an unbalanced system, but I can't help it - occasionally I want to be an invincible badass.

Grand Lodge

Kobold Cleaver wrote:
EntrerisShadow wrote:
*Insert obligatory martials cant have nice things post*

With the news that Pummeling Style getting nerfed hardcore, I am really beginning to wish the devs would listen to the large number of people unhappy with martials continuously being depowered while spellcasters go unmolested.

I'd start a new thread about it, but recent history indicates it would be locked the 2nd page in.

Consider heading over here. I think it's about due a necromance, in light of the reactions to the ACG errata.

Me. Through the entire thread.

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*Insert obligatory martials cant have nice things post*

With the news that Pummeling Style getting nerfed hardcore, I am really beginning to wish the devs would listen to the large number of people unhappy with martials continuously being depowered while spellcasters go unmolested.

I'd start a new thread about it, but recent history indicates it would be locked the 2nd page in.

Grand Lodge

The answer is an unfortunately prosaic Wizard x4. The OG OP still can't be bested without a smorgasbord of cheese. Can reliably and easily replicate any other class's ability. Buffing, debuffing, control, damage, guile, stealth? There's a spell for that.

Starts damn good at level 1 and becomes an unstoppable juggernaut at 10. And you'll never run out of spells when there's 4 of you.

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Black or Green seem like the obvious choices.

Black - Reputation for being vicious, fits the chaotic pirate type well.

Green - Much more conniving and reasonable than most evil dragons. Willing to wheel and deal for greater gains in the future.

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Headfirst wrote:
TL;DR: There are rules in place to help the martial/caster power disparity. If you're really worried about it, use them in your game. If you want versatile characters, stop building them to be myopic killing machines and invest some feats and/or skill points in non-combat stuff.

So to rein casters in from godlike to just really overpowered you just have to remember to use all of the convoluted rules centered around spellcasting until they reach midlevels and literally all of those things are easily overcome. Got it.

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Ok so someone else may have already said it - there are a LOT of posts to sift through - but I find the 4E comparison particularly funny now that even in D&D and its variants, 5E has strongly (but not completely) balanced out casters and martials and is proving to be one of the most popular editions ever introduced.

4E's commercial failure had a lot more to do with WotC making marketing decisions that shut out anyone who still wanted to play older editions and required huge financial investment just to play.

Truthfully, 4E was probably a superior game ruleswise, but Pathfinder gave me a free resource to learn about it and accessible organized play - so Paizo grabbed me immediately.

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Arachnofiend wrote:
The Girdle is a cursed item; it's intended use is to trap someone in the wrong gender, not to help them adjust to the correct one. That's what the Elixir of Sex Shifting is for.

So I wonder then if it would be ineffective on a Trans person? If you're already living with a soul or mind or what have you with incorrect biological markers, wouldn't the girdle fizzle?

Kind of feels like no matter what the girdle has some unfortunate implications.

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Voin_AFOL wrote:
My point wasn't to "assuage white guilt". Frankly, I don't feel any reason to have any. I was born in the USSR where all of us white citizens were slaves to the brutal tyranny of the Communist Party because that's how the true "equality" of Marxism plays out in real life. After the fall of the Soviet Union, my mother and I came to America seeking a...

I know this is kind of old news at this point, and I was going to wait until getting back from vacation to respond, but I figure I should get in before the (inevitable) threadlock this is heading toward.

I just want to be clear I didn't mean to target you, Voin, specifically. Often times we repeat dominant cultural narratives that have been handed to us as true our entire lives.

When I was a teenager and arguing about racism from my (very sheltered, very privileged) perspective I would often try to throw out the Black Panther example. I've even heard black people do it. Obviously, there is nothing for them to gain from the false dichotomy, but it's what they've been taught by a school system and media with a vested interest in repeating it often and loudly enough that we are all incapable of making the distinction.

I'm sure your intentions were well meaning; but it speaks to the power of myth that nearly all of us by a certain age have internalized many dogmatic concepts that fall apart under scrutiny.

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Petty Alchemy wrote:

Gotta say the 5e Fighter is definitely competitive with the Warlock. My favorite path is Battle Master and stuff like Goading Attack/Trip Attack is great (Goading is especially great as a Crossbow Expert).

The knockback for the Warlock isn't very effective unless you have a Polearm Master in the group per my experience (but man is it great if you do).

I think it may have been errata'd, but you used to be able to Crossbow Master with a shield (I speak a lot about crossbow master because it's the Fighter I played).

I suppose Eldritch Knight can get Haste as well, which is neat. Not a fan of Champion.

Champion isn't great, but it is pretty strong in the THF style with the expanded crit range. Also an effective switch hitter.

The thing that gets me is how anyone could think the Fighter is unimpressive when Beast Master Rangers exist. There's a useless class if I ever seen one.

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Derek Vande Brake wrote:

As an attempt to bring this thread back onto the tracks...

108. Showing up for the game session in just your boxers, because we are all friends here, right?

Edited to renumber!

I have a GM who runs games like that.

.... you get used to it.

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If you want a good quick fix that doesn't change the game drastically, there are two things you can do that solve a good deal (if not all) of the disparity.

1. Full attack/standard does not exist. Nor does spring attack. If you are a fighter with 2 attacks, you have two attacks. As long as you have movement left, you can attack and keep on moving and split attacks between targets.

2. Combat feats scale with level. Is this feat a prerequisite for something else? Then it's granted automatically once your BAB reaches the appropriate level. Also combat expertise is dead as it should be.

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Voin_AFOL wrote:
To truly hate takes time, emotional effort, focus on the object of your hate. We call the KKK and the Black Panthers "hate-groups" for a reason - they'd be a lot less trouble if they were simply "don't give a dire-rat's arse about people different then them" groups.

Hey sorry, I know this is semi off-topic, but this is just something I have to address because it's an oft-repeated and yet rarely challenged fallacy and it bothers me a lot.

It's popular to immediately compare the Black Panthers to the Klan for some misguided attempt at 'fairness', but the reality is the two groups could not be more different. The Black Panther Party was a group created by members of an oppressed minority in solidarity against a government that was actively killing them. The Black Panthers worked and interacted with other leftist groups of all races. Their fight wasn't against white people, per se, but white supremacy.

Furthermore their gathering immediately caught the ire of the US government, and in particular Hoover's FBI. They were immediately targeted with arrest, persecution, and murder. (Fred Hampton being the highest profile of these cases.)

I don't want to act as though it was all sunshine and roses - they were revolutionary, after all, and still radical. But they were not an organization founded to promote black supremacy or white genocide.

The Klan, by contrast, was founded by former Confederate soldiers with the express purpose of killing and intimidating black people after the Civil War. The Klan has killed nearly literally thousands of blacks by lynching alone. Despite this foundation of violent extremism and terrorism, it not only was not greeted with the same sort of resistance, but actually enjoyed a long period of legitimacy in the US government. (There was a time when my state, Indiana, had an entire state legislature consisting of Klansmen.)

For further contrast, here is the mission statement of the Klan as provided by a 1920 pamphlet the group released:

WE STAND FOR WHITE SUPREMACY. Distinction among the races is not accidental but designed. This is clearly brought out in the one book that tells authoritatively of the origin of the races. This distinction is not incidental, but is of the vastest import and indicates the wisdom of the divine mind. It is not temporary but is as abiding as the ages that have not yet ceased to roll. The supremacy of the White Race must be maintained, or be overwhelmed by the rising tide of color.

Now in fairness there is a black separatist, antisemitic organization of a much smaller number called the New Black Panther Party that HAS been designated a hate group, but typically when the Black Panthers are brought up the distinction is not being made. (It should also be said for the record that members of the original BPP have denounced them.)

We really need to quit parroting this myth. Without digressing too far into current events, it's a seductive narrative meant to assuage white guilt at the expense of meaningful change - and this sort of mythology we have built around our history is literally deadly.

Grand Lodge

Charon's Little Helper wrote:
EntrerisShadow wrote:
I made every mistake one could make with a Monk - Dex over Str,
Actually - that's not a mistake. Dex monks are the way to go - they're just weak for the first two or three levels until you can grab an Agile Amulet of Mighty Fists. If you're in a home group rather than PFS, you can probably convince the rest of the group to chip in and get it by 2nd and you'll pay them back over the next level or two. (They want you to actually deal damage too.)

Unfortunately, this was late 2009-early 2010. The "Agile" enhancement came from the Pathfinder Society Field Guide, which was copyright 2011. No Agile AMoF for me.

Now I did get Holy Brass Knuckles reflavored as Hand Wraps, but our DM thought they only worked on Evil Outsiders (Making them redundant with the much cheaper Bane (Evil Outsider) enchantment) so it cleaned me out to do 2d6 more damage occasionally.

A Dex monk is workable - now - but Str was the only way to go in the early days, and it's still more powerful now. (Even discounting the complete changes to the class like Zen Archer, Qinggong, and Sohei - if you wanted to do the 'best' melee monk type, I'd probably do a MoMS/Martial Artist for damage or Tetori for control - and both of those builds are better focused on Str.)

Grand Lodge

I have two:

The first was my first PC ever - a Faultspawn Tiefling (+2 Dex, +2 Wis, -2 Int) in the Curse of the Crimson Throne AP. I made every mistake one could make with a Monk - Dex over Str, didn't invest in anything ranged, took "Scorpion Style" as my 1st level Bonus Feat (that's by far my worst decision). The first flying foe we encountered (an Erinyes) I just sat helpless. And due to the low Int I had zero out of combat utility as well.

And the worst part is I just couldn't die. My AC was REALLY good (thanks Dex) and Monk saves made me a hard target. Most combats were just missing and then being missed while my party did the heavy lifting. Mercifully, my DM finally came to my rescue and let me roll a new character anyway (I didn't even know that was an option at the time - I figured I'd have to die first) and I made a Half-Elf Bard that was way more fun.

The 2nd is what I'd call my "Hawkeye" build - he would've actually been really great if he weren't stuck in a party that completely overshadowed him. We were doing straight 4d6 rolls - and I rolled lugubriously, a 14-pt buy equivalent that was not allocated well at all. But I rolled up a Druid/Barbarian that used Wild Shape and Rage to overcome his biggest weaknesses and did decently ..... except I was in an Evil Outsider/Undead Campaign (BBEG was a vampire from an earlier game who had snuck off to the Nine Hells) with a Paladin and Cleric who rolled 40-pt buy equivalents. I really thought I could overcome any shortcoming by gaming the parts of the system I knew well - but yeah, not even close.

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John Robey wrote:
My only real difficulty has been gauging encounter difficulty. The XP Budget system presented in the DMG requires a lot of tweaking due to the number-of-foes multiplier and can present some pretty strange results if you push it too hard (such as the popular example of a solo lich being a moderate encounter at a given level while a lich accompanied by two kobolds is an epic encounter).

Actually that's not quite true. The DMG specifically points out that you do not include enemies whose CR is significantly below the party's APL as part of the challenge. So 2 Kobolds = CR 1/4, nothing to a 13th level party.

You'd need 16+ Kobolds before it even gets close to making a dent.

In regards to the Dex vs Str, I like the change a lot. STR is still slightly better for damage, and DEX is still slightly better defense - it's just that now you can reasonably do combat styles aside from THF and do decent damage.

TWF is viable. Archery doesn't mean having to focus on STR and DEX as opposed to a THF Barbarian just getting to pump their STR to absurdity. But Power Attack now belongs solely to Great Weapon Fighters. Criticals just doubling dice and not modifiers favors d12 and 2d6 weapons over d4 and d6.

Also, for the record, STR saves are fairly common at low levels. Pretty much every beast with a Trip attack requires a STR save. Prone isn't the worst thing in the world, per se, but it's no picnic.

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James Jacobs wrote:
Silent Saturn wrote:
4. Weapons no longer have critical multipliers, they now have critical damage dice. A rapier, for example, might be "18-20/+2d4" while a wakizashi is "18-20/+1d8" and a scythe is "20/+2d12". This would allow different weapons to have more visibly different stats and thus make more room for new weapons to be released in previous books. It would also mean your Strength bonus et al. aren't multiplied on a crit anymore, which would make crits much less of a novablast and make the crit range of a weapon less important than it currently is.
I really really really am intrigued by and like this idea.

Looks like you might get your idea into PF 2.0 ;)

That is pretty neat, though - and truly, crit fishing is a tad overpowered right now. I'm curious how would you rule it on ray spells and the like, though? Same thing or just double the damage die since they typically don't include modifiers?

Grand Lodge

Here's a recent thing I've developed a taste for that at least the people in my groups tend to dislike:

Not having god stats. Part of this is probably because we've mostly moved on to 5E (Sorry, Paizo! Still love ya.) which brought back the items setting scores to fixed numbers - who cares if you find Gauntlets of Ogre Power when you're already sitting at your STR cap, anyway?

But I play with people who will steadfastly refuse characters who don't start with at least one 19-20. They all do generous rolling that pretty much ensures it, too.

On the one hand, this still worked for me a bit in Pathfinder - it let me play character concepts that were typically too underpowered to work in most games. But now it just ruins a lot of the challenge/fun for me. And good luck running a decent horror game as a GM when every character is The God-@#%^ Batman.

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Gnomes. 100% Gnomes. I want to play a game where everyone rolls a Gnome.

Not really that people hate Sorcerers, per se, but I greatly prefer Sorcerers to Wizards. If I'm gonna cast spells, I wanna look sexy doing it.


Cavaliers and Paladins. ESPECIALLY Paladins.

I like restrictions for the purpose of a coherent theme. A prehistoric game with Shamans and Druids only. A steampunk game with alchemists and gunslingers. It's a story telling game and I think stories are better told when there's a cohesive narrative structure. Even if that means this game isn't the one where I get to roll up my Beastmorph Alchemist.

Grand Lodge

kyrt-ryder, wow, that got really heated - I don't particularly agree with Aelrynith, but it might be good to take a step back and breathe. You're taking it really personally.

Also, making disparaging comparisons to autism is really kind of uncalled for. I would hazard a guess that there are many players, some of whom are probably on these boards, who have been diagnosed as being on the spectrum and would probably not appreciate their mental state being cavalierly used in that way.

Say, wasn't this thread about monks at one point?

Grand Lodge

Alchemists, like Bards, are wonderful for their versatility. You just sacrifice some of the utility for more combat "oomph!" The spell list isn't the greatest, but it's useful, and with the Infusion discovery you can share it like a Wizard or Cleric.

But the real draw here is the Mutagen. It starts as a unique +4 bonus to any score you choose and only increases from there. That means, unlike say Cat's Grace or Bull's Strength, it stacks.

Want to be a vicious melee beast? You've got Curative spells and easy access to +8 STR. (Seriously - by level 4 in society play you could theoretically be consistently rocking a 28 STR. That's +9 damage, or +13 if you're two-handing it - which you unequivocally should.)

Want to be a ranged attacker? You can either go Dex OR (and here's the best part, cause you should be trying to hit touch AC anyway) with a certain archetype or discovery, bump your INT up and add that to your damage on cheap, readily available splash weapons.

Want to debuff? There's a discovery for that. Your bombs can become miasmas of debilitating effects from nausea, to stunned, to confused. All with a DC operating off a stat you can boost at any time. Sure, it's a limited resource, but truly it'd have to be because you can easily make it impossible for some enemies to save on anything but a nat-20.

But dismissing all of that, the best thing about Alchemists is they're unique. They're not a mish-mash of other classes' abilities; they are 100% their own monster. (So to speak.)

Grand Lodge

I feel like the best thing I saw explaining alignments was a series of concentric circles representing Evil, Neutral, and Good and Law, Neutral, and Chaos.

The Evil circle encompassed self, with neutral blending into Family/Friends, and Good spreading into All Life with there being degradation to mark how intensely that instinct was. So if Neutral is blue and Good is green, there's a turquoise barrier that represents how much more the person cares for their circle as to what happens in the world at large.

The Law-Neutral-Chaos circles did something similar but had two different sets, one from Tradition to Iconoclasm and one from Planning to Reactionary. (I think anyway - it has been a while.)

So being CE doesn't necessarily mean you're better or worse than a NE- it's actually completely irrelevant. Daemons aren't worse because they're NE; they're worse because their omnicidal nihilism is a threat to pretty much all existing creatures. The mercenary NE Yugoloths of D&D on the other hand are considered slightly less terrible than demons because their motivations are at least understandable.

You could have a CE who is just kind of an unbalanced jerk, or a NE who is just a selfish coward - or in either case they could be complete monsters. Hell even LE, despite its reputation as the least evil of evil alignments, can put those people to shame. Just look at some of the tyrants throughout history, especially when they started to colonize. They engineered some of the worst atrocities imaginable on a scale that makes (the definitely CE) Ed Gein look like child's play.

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Kalindlara wrote:
EntrerisShadow wrote:
kyrt-ryder wrote:
Which trait are you referring to, EnterisShadow?
IThe ones that spring immediately to mind are the ones that let you use a different stat for 2-3 skills, but really anything that gives you a flat +1 is superior to a very conditional + 2, especially if you have to blow more than one feat to get there.

I was expecting Wayang Spell Hunter and Magical Lineage, myself. ^_^

I am far more bothered by Student of Philosophy and its ilk, though...

Holy crap "Magical Lineage" should definitely be a feat.

Grand Lodge

kyrt-ryder wrote:
Which trait are you referring to, EnterisShadow?

The ones that spring immediately to mind are the ones that let you use a different stat for 2-3 skills, but really anything that gives you a flat +1 is superior to a very conditional + 2, especially if you have to blow more than one feat to get there.

glass wrote:
Well of course. That is kinda the point of the thread.

Yes the point was things you'd change about Pathfinder, but come on - there's a big difference between dump/add these abilities or rules or whatever, and eliminate every single thing that actually makes the game what it is. One guy literally said make it Savage Worlds - I just think it gets a bit ridiculous to a point where you're less looking at what to change and really just looking for a different game.

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PrinceRaven wrote:

Between the kanabo, naginata, yuri and yumi bow the samurai had a variety of really good weapons they could use quite effectively on the battlefield.

Then they had the katana, which was basically there for the symbolism, duels and executing prisoners.

Personally, I think comparing them to bastard swords is an insult to bastard swords.

Things I have learned from this thread:

1. My hatred of katanas is completely justified, but there are way cooler Japanese weapons that sadly are not getting their due.

2. Do NOT Google a "yuri" bow at work with the safe search off.

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I feel like a lot of these changes would mean you're no longer playing Pathfinder. Honestly, I love 5E and a lot of the things it changed - but I don't want to turn Pathfinder into 5E. Too many people are eager to turn Pathfinder into something else and that's just not fair.

That being said some changes I would like to see:

1. Combat Expertise is the worst example I have ever seen of a rule remaining simply due to legacy. It's beyond worthless - it is actively detrimental to building martial characters who do anything besides "I hit with my stick!" I have already houseruled it out of my games, as have most GMs I know. Similarly -

2. Too many feats, especially maneuver feats, are nickel and dimed. When a trait is worth more than a feat, the design has failed somewhere.

3. Many of the super high level spells should be relegated to GM options only. The narrative shattering stuff like Simulacrum should not be assumed to be available to players, but as villainous options for BBEGs to use. Players could always take at GM's discretion of course.

4. Get rid of full attack/standard. If you have 2 attacks, you have 2 attacks. Period.

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I vacillate back and forth. But on the whole, I am usually right there with you preferring the GM's chair. Particularly because I love villains - and it's rare (but not impossible) that a villain can work in a group of PCs.

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Trekkie90909 wrote:
Last session the self styled 'King Arthur' type in the party rescued a bunch of abandoned orphans from a daycare. The rest of the party thought taking care of them would be a waste of resources, so they sold 'King Arthur' to a group of demon worshipers. 'King Arthur' manages to kill one of the cultists before being subdued, so of course the rest of the party dumps all the orphans in that guy's corpse, then runs them over with their cart. Then they wait for the cultists to possess 'King Arthur' with a demon, and together they proceed with the child corpses to a nearby worg camp to sell their newfound 'crunchies.'

Egads, man! Please tell me that was an Evil campaign, because if that is anybody's idea of Lawful Good - please, please run away quickly before they eat your liver with fava beans and a nice Chianti Merlot.

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DM Under The Bridge wrote:
Rakshasha aren't used enough. I must correct this in my own games (alas they don't fit for this campaign).

Hear hear. It amazes me, too. Rakshasa are tailor made BBEG's for midlevel campaigns. Why more people don't utilize that I'll never know.

Speaking of things I think are underutilized as BBEG's, another favorite of mine are the Fey. Two reasons:

1. I love traditional fairy tales. Demons/devils and such are cool, absolutely, but it feels very heavy metal - and I'm just more of a Prog guy I guess. And almost all of the traditional folkloric monsters are in the 'Fey' category.

2. Their nature means the line between benevolent and antagonistic likes to blur a lot. Even "helpful" fey are often less than such, and antagonistic fey can show mercy or grant a boon at a whim because it's totally within their nature to be mercurial like that. I especially love having high level Fey as secondary antagonists or Enemy Mine characters.

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