Paizo Top Nav Branding
  • Hello, Guest! |
  • Sign In |
  • My Account |
  • Shopping Cart |
  • Help/FAQ
About Paizo Messageboards News Paizo Blog Help/FAQ
Wishcraft caster

Cyrad's page

RPG Superstar 2014 Star Voter. Pathfinder Society Member. 1,236 posts (1,407 including aliases). 7 reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 1 Pathfinder Society character. 1 alias.


RSS

1 to 50 of 1,236 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | next > last >>

Kthulhu wrote:
5e offers more in-game options. To me, that's infinitely preferable.

How so? What do you mean by "in-game options?" 5th Edition gives you VERY few options on a per-level basis. After 4th level, you don't have much agency in how your character grows aside from multiclassing.


Much less time than putting everything into BB code tags.


Kthulhu wrote:
5e has more class and race choices in the PHB than Pathfinder has in the CRB.

Pathfinder CRB has way more character building options and also has magic item listings, rules for intelligent items, and game mastering rules. I wasn't even comparing PF's CRB to 5th Edition in my earlier statement. While not as many classes as 5th Edition's PHB, 4th Edition's classes had a ton more crunch into it and the book had magic items. That book was about 35 bucks.

I'm not trying to make this into a PF vs 5e argument. I'm just saying that I expected more content for a $50 book when the previous edition had more pages, a competitor had twice the page count, and a percentage of the book was made free.

Malachi Silverclaw wrote:
Cyrad wrote:
Adjule wrote:
I just hope the 5e sorcerer ends up with more than just dragon bloodline and wild magic.
Agreed. One of my biggest complaints against the PHB is lack of content. Every class only received two or three specializations. No magic items. Almost no content for higher level of play as the developers admittedly centered the game's design around the first few levels.

The inherent design of every class includes a choice of path. Although only two or three are given for some classes, and up to eight for wizards, this actually means that there is infinite possibility for other paths to be published later....

...just like, say....Pathfinder?

Aye, specializations are basically a built-in archetype system. I'm not that crazy about how they implemented them, but I really like some of them. (It still tempts me to make an Eldritch Knight archetype for the fighter).


If you're doing any kind of write up, you should put it in a document stored on a cloud, like Google Drive. It makes it easier to read, and if someone wants to use it, they can print or export it. Additionally, you can't change your post, so it's best to post a link than put the content directly on the post. When I post stuff, I tend to post a link and then give a summary in my actual post.


Adjule wrote:
I just hope the 5e sorcerer ends up with more than just dragon bloodline and wild magic.

Agreed. One of my biggest complaints against the PHB is lack of content. Every class only received two or three specializations. No magic items. Almost no content for higher level of play as the developers admittedly centered the game's design around the first few levels.


I'm not sure if WotC "stole" from Pathfinder when they gave bloodlines to sorcerers. Sorcerers had bloodlines in 4th Edition, the book they appeared in released and developed around the same time as the PF CRB. The bloodlines listed in 5th Edition take from 4th Edition, however, the dragon bloodline does look rather similar to the one in PF.

Getting an extra attack is actually way better for 5th Edition than 3rd Edition. It's more difficult to obtain iterative attacks for non-martials. Martials, obviously, do more damage and tend to have higher ability scores since they receive score increases more frequently and most of the martial feats grant ability score increases, negating the cost of the feat.

Having ability score increases scale off of BAB would actually be kind of neat in PF and help reduce martial dependency on belts. How about a character receives a +1 ability score increase at +3, +6, +9, +12, +15, and +18 BAB? This means martials get bonuses every three levels. Gishes get bonuses every four levels as normal. And full arcane casters get bonuses every six levels.


On the subject of the sorcerer, I've been wanting a homebrew add-on to the sorcerer that adds sorcery points.


I do like the idea of the fighter having a spellcasting archetype.

I do miss caster level scaling though...


5th Edition shifts much of the wizard's power into cantrips. In fact, the game very carefully regulates how many cantrips a spellcaster receives.


Arcanemuses wrote:
Cyrad wrote:


I expected an investigator that deals with eldritch abominations and cults worshipping Dark Tapestry gods. Instead, I got a mad scientist that mutates people and steals primary class features from other classes.

Stealing or borrowing class features is perfectly fine, so long as it fits with a character's theme. As for your use of the word "expected", no one owes you anything. Your expectations do not entitle you to get what you want from a content contributor. If you want something different, I challenge you to homebrew it. This challenge is your chance to show us all what you expected. The gauntlet is thrown. I wish you luck. Happy homebrewing :)

No! Not another one! I'm already working on two classes ontop of my thesis and have been neglecting the Blazing 9.

My comment was largely that the class was advertised as a "Lovecraftian detective" and the actual class doesn't fit the description it conveys.


Hm, that's a good point.


Cyrad wrote:

Fixed my above post.

I do wish Pathfinder used concentration in more interesting ways. Maybe it could have been similar to 4th Edition where you have to spend a swift action instead of a standard action to maintain a concentration effect.

EDIT

Artanthos wrote:
Thelemic_Noun wrote:
Also, many buffs and utilities also have a duration of concentration. This includes invisibility, blur, fly, bless, and a couple of others.

Making buffs concentration spells effectively removes them from the spellbooks of some casters.

Magus: I use spell combat to cast Blur and attack.
GM: Blur goes off, but as soon as you roll your attack dice the spell goes away.
Magus: Mirror Image? Haste? Or should I only memorize Intensified Maximized Shocking Grasp in my higher level spell slots.

In 5th Edition, concentration doesn't expend your standard action.


Fixed my above post.

I do wish Pathfinder used concentration in more interesting ways. Maybe it could have been similar to 4th Edition where you have to spend a swift action instead of a standard action to maintain a concentration effect.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

I think there's already been discussions about this.

EDIT: Pardon my rudeness. I am a very sleepy man today.

Cannibalizing 5e

Lessons for 2nd Edition


The feedback has been very helpful. Here's my current draft for essence pool, reave, and eldritch ray.

Essence Pool (Su):
At 1st level, a reaver keeps a reservoir of energy stolen from his victims to fuel his eldritch powers. He can store a maximum amount of points of essence equal to his Constitution bonus (minimum 1). However, he begins each day with zero points of essence, and loses all points when he regains his daily uses of the reave ability. A reaver gains points of essence using the reave ability (see below).

A reaver can spend 1 point of essence as a standard action to grant a touched creature a number of temporary hit points equal to his level plus his Charisma modifier. Alternatively, he can bestow the temporary hit points to himself as a swift action. This lasts 1 minute per reaver level or until the temporary hit points are lost.

Eldritch Ray (Sp):
At 1st level, a reaver may spend 1 point of essence as a standard action to fire a ray at a creature within 30 feet. On a successful ranged touch attack, the creature takes negative energy damage equal to 1d6 + the reaver's Charisma modifier. The ray deals 1d6 bonus damage at 3rd level and every odd level afterwards.

An undead creature takes no damage from the ray, but instead must succeed on a Will saving throw or flee as if panicked for 1 minute. The DC is equal to 10 + 1/2 the reaver’s level + the reaver's Charisma modifier. Intelligent undead receive a new saving throw each round to end the effect.

Reave (Su):
At 1st level, a reaver can forcefully rip the life force from a creature he has hit with a melee attack as a free action. The creature takes 1d4 + 1 negative energy damage every 2 reaver levels and becomes shaken for a number of rounds equal to the reaver's Charisma bonus. A successful Will save (DC 10 + 1/2 reaver level + Charisma modifier) negates the shakened condition, which cannot advance to frightened or panicked. An undead creature takes no damage, but instead becomes staggered on a failed save. This is a necromancy effect.

After the target takes damage, a reaver gains 1 point of essence. Unless the creature has immunity to necromancy effects, he gains the point regardless of whether or not the creature succeeded on its saving throw or took damage.

A reaver can use this a number of times per day equal to his Charisma modifier plus his level.

Amanuensis wrote:


So you can reave as often as you hit (which may or may not be considered a 'nova' option, depending on how potent reave is), but you can apply the rider effect (or partial rider effect, in your example) from exploits only once per round. That seems like a smart solution to the action economy problem (certainly less awkward than the magus' spell combat/spellstrike mechanics, by which it will have to be measured).

I believe the Constitution modifier cap on essence pool and the iterative attack progression will help gate the nova potential.

Amanuensis wrote:

In your example, does the reaver's opponent have to fail his save for the enlargement to work? I assume yes, but it is not entirely clear.

Can the reaver 'store' the enlargement for a later fight or does he have to use it immediately? I assume the latter, since the first option would make for some tedious bookkeeping.

Bonus reave effects trigger on a failed save, but the reaver can only use one bonus effect per reave. In other words, it works like this:

1) Reaver reaves a target.
2) Target fails save.
3) Reaver decides to trigger an exploit that causes a bonus reave effect.

The reaver can store the essence point to enlarge him for a later fight or use it immediately as he wishes. I do agree with the concern for book keeping, but that might not be so bad since the player isn't *forced* to keep track of it. If he doesn't want to enlarge himself later, he doesn't have to.

Amanuensis wrote:
Cyrad wrote:
My idea for #2 was that you essentially have the same number of combined uses of reave and eldritch ray (or other effects) as an alchemist has bombs, so that the damage is roughly the same.
Then I misunderstood. From your opening post, I still assumed that eldritch ray was a ranged damage option fueled by essence, not a ranged version of reave.

Your initial impression had it right. Reave and eldritch ray are separate abilities. The idea behind Idea #2 was that reave does the same amount of damage as eldritch ray, but the reaver can only perform reave 1/2 level + CHA mod rather than level + CHA mod. This would make reave worth using a standard action on at the cost of using it less. However, your earlier point and the fact it confused you serves as evidence this isn't a good idea.

Amanuensis wrote:
It will be interesting to see how this class fares compared to the magus.

Agreed (magus is my favorite class). I'm going to increase the reaver skills to 4 + Int and probably add a special skill ability at 1st level. I'm envisioning the reaver as having a little more utility, versatility, and skill usage than the magus whereas the magus has harder novas. Eldritch ray's negative energy gives the reaver an edge. I'll have to do some number crunching on that.


Someone came up with similar question before and someone replied with a great system that mirrors Dark Souls. I'm not sure if I can find it though.


On entropic malison, I cannot recommend lowering the BAB for the sake of a single, problematic ability. Especially one that doesn't add much gameplay or flavor to the class. If you lower the BAB, then you need to give them 6-level spells. No class in the game has a 3/4 BAB without any spells. The only exceptions (monk and rogue) Paizo intends to fix that in Pathfinder Unchained.


I still think having greater malison target a single creature for a greater is a good way to give some gameplay choices. Also, keep in mind that the ranger and paladin both get 4-level spells and they're full BAB classes.

Bonus feats might work. I'd say a greater malison at 2nd level and every three levels after. A bonus feat at 3rd level and every three levels after. Give them spellcasting at 4th level or some kind of spell-like ability progression centered around curses.


A martial with a debuff aura. Not a bad concept. For the most part, it looks okay. However, there just isn't enough meat on the bones of this class. They don't have enough cool class features. Giving them 4-level spell progression or bonus feats might help.

My biggest problem with malison is that passive auras don't have much in the way of gameplay. The character will just run up and attack things -- there's no decision making on part of the player. Another problem is that this is a bookkeeping nightmare for the GM. If I were designing this class feature, I'd keep the aura something simple and useful (-2 to attack rolls and saves at 1st level), and have greater malisons be swift actions that target a creature in the aura for some greater effect. The Strength/Dexterity penalties greater malisons also seem way more powerful than other effects.

Also, you need to have each ability description indicate what level the class receives it. Don't make the player have to cross reference the table constantly.


You have great flavor, but I'm honestly not impressed with it. It's basically an alchemist that trades mutagen and bombs for a few little questionable abilities. I do have to give credit for the capstone ability's creatvity, though basically most of them are essentially free tickets to derail the campaign. I hoped for deeper mechanics. It makes me pine for an investigator mechanic that takes Wisdom damage to use inspiration for greater effect, representing the character making a huge relevation at the cost of their sanity.


You have interesting ideas, a class all about mutating himself or others, but I can't say I like the execution. Eldritch pool is way too powerful. You should make your own list of evolutions rather than use the eidolon's (a broken class feature in its own right). As written, the alienist can make everyone in the party grow wings at 2nd level, letting them fly three levels before any other class can. That's a big benchmark no-no. In addition, the alienist gets a ton of points. The other class features don't really impress me. Most of them are just stealing hexes and mysteries from the witch and oracle.

I expected an investigator that deals with eldritch abominations and cults worshipping Dark Tapestry gods. Instead, I got a mad scientist that mutates people and steals primary class features from other classes.


rainzax wrote:

mechanically not conceptually

hunger rounds?

a benefit from the idea is that in terms of uses per day it's situated between strictly limited and unlimited

also, as it centers the duration on you, the 'reaving' could be an ongoing effect that takes a standard/attack action to activate per foe and a free (concentration) action to maintain. which opens the door wider to having steady ongoing effects (like auras, HP drain, cumulative penalties, etc) as well as heavy blast effects.

That sounds like an interesting idea for the bloodrager, but not quite what I'm shooting for. Reaving every round would shoot the essence pool economy.


Rynjin wrote:
Cyrad wrote:

I think Jason Bulman said he wanted Pathfinder Unchained to fix this problem so that "everytime you rage, you don't have to sit down and do a bunch of math."

Even Sean K Reynolds is eliminating ability scores from his new RPG that he's kickstarting for this reason. Instead of having ability scores, you only have ability modifiers

So basically, nothing changes, except he's giving characters lower Point Buy.

I mean that's literally what it is: 2 Point Buy, with all the extra numbers trimmed out, so people "feel better" abut smaller increases.

That's not doing away with ability scores, that's just making the numbers smaller.

The point I'm making in the context of this discussion is that it eliminates the extra math one has to do when gaining bonuses and penalties. In nearly every case in the game, only the ability modifiers matter. So rage would simply grant +2 STR, which equates to +2 to attack and damage rolls with melee weapons.


Amanuensis wrote:
Does it still take a swift action to activate a reave after hitting an opponent in melee?

It's a swift action, but now I'm considering making it a free action and having some essence-spending exploits usable as a swift action. This might solve a lot of action economy problems.

For example, there's one exploit that steals a creature's size. As a reave effect, the target gets affected as reduce person. The reaver can spend a point of essence to gain the benefits of enlarge person. So the reduction could be reave effect (free action) and the enlargement a swift action.

What's your thoughts on this?

Amanuensis wrote:

If reaves are a scarce ressource and deal significant amounts of damage, the reaver will have to figure out whether to spend his reaves early on to replenish his essence pool or to save them up for later to increase his damage output against more powerful opponents (and debuff them). A problem similar to the one that paladins face (when should I use my powerful smite ability?).

As a player, I'd probably prefer using my signature class ability more often, even if it is not that potent.

My idea for #2 was that you essentially have the same number of combined uses of reave and eldritch ray (or other effects) as an alchemist has bombs, so that the damage is roughly the same. I was starting to feel fairly confident about this.

However, you're absolutely right. As their signature ability that the entire class centers around, it should be something they can do often. So #2 isn't a good idea.


I think Jason Bulman said he wanted Pathfinder Unchained to fix this problem so that "everytime you rage, you don't have to sit down and do a bunch of math."

Even Sean K Reynolds is eliminating ability scores from his new RPG that he's kickstarting for this reason. Instead of having ability scores, you only have ability modifiers


A reave rage?


When building monsters, determining their ability scores is usually the last thing you do. See the monster creation guide.


I'd go a step further and say that you always detect as the opposite alignment of the person detecting you and for effects based on alignment, you are considered the alignment least favorable to you. Getting spells is also kind of bland for boons.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Wouldn't be too hard to homebrew one.
1) Magus gains spontaneous casting using Charisma and the bard's spell progression.
2) Magus uses Charisma instead of Intelligence for magus arcana and similar magus class features that rely on Intelligence.
3) Replace spell recall and improved spell recall. I hate to do this for archetype reasons, but this cannot be avoided since improved spell recall won't work at all with spontaneous casting.

René P wrote:
The Eldritch Scion from the Advanced Class Guide! Thanks Paizo!

I wrote a small essay explaining why that archetype is so bad.


Alright, thanks, Amanuensis.

An archetype that sabotages undead sounds like a great idea.

I'm still not confident about the default effect of reave (1d4+1/2 level negative energy damage and shaken for Charisma bonus rounds). I'm very strongly leaning on the idea of making it melee-only with an exploit that allows you to do it at range and perhaps affect multiple targets at once. My ideas are:

1) Keep it the same. 1d4+[1/2 level] negative energy damage plus shakened for [Charisma bonus] rounds (Will halves damage and negates shakened). Exploits replace shakened condition with a different condition.

2) Reduce reaves per day to Charisma + 1/2 level. Reave deals 1d4 per odd level negative energy damage plus Charisma modifier (Will halves). Eldritch Ray deals the same damage as reave. All exploits simply add effects to reave.

3) Same as #1 except reave deals 1d4 negative energy damage and an extra die every 4 levels.

4) Same as #2 except 1d6 instead of 1d4?


I'm not really keen on the idea of a feat that counters a counter. I'd just have it be a metamagic feat that increases the dispel DC or grants the spell effect spell resistance.


I'm not really a fan of archetypes that let you cheat spell slot economy. Being able to cast any 1-4th level spell as a standard action is kind of broken, in my opinion, even at the cost of a 5th level spell. That's even better than Quicken Spell. I want archetypes that will make playing the class more fun. This doesn't really make it fun and instead just gives more munchkin tools.


What is essence? A tangible unit of energy that sustains the life (or false life). I envisioned what exactly essence is depends heavily on the setting and creature. For a living creature, an essence is positive energy. An undead creature has negative energy.

You have a good point there. I'll probably save the physical ability theft to a couple of moderate exploits or an archetype. I intend to create archetypes that reflavor the mechanics, like a mage that steals and manipulates blood.

What would you think of exploits that use essence to create mockeries of life similar to shadow conjurations?


Any other thoughts about this?


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Why's this in the homebrew section?

I have nothing against people who want to enjoy epic levels, but I'm very happy with the way Paizo has handled it with mythic rules. I'm also not keen on true gods getting statted. I like having my gods remain gods. If people want to run campaigns where players become true gods and interact with other true gods, I don't think merely extending the character level cap would do it justice. Such a campaign would likely require a completely different rule set to support divine and extraplanar politics. Ones that involve establishing your religion, advanced social encounters with divine beings, influencing mortals, shaping entire civilizations and worlds. This is not something that suits the basic D&D/PF rule set, which is built more for adventuring and combat.


Present the monster in a way that makes them seem very threatening and risky to engage. Make it obvious the party has options to avoid the creature, which may hint to the players that you intend for them to run rather than engage it. One way I do this is by making the monster Large or Huge, which makes it obviously dangerous to engage in melee with. Disgusting monsters or powerful undead are also good because powerful undead creatures usually have devastating melee attacks that inflict status conditions.

The nice thing about Pathfinder (unlike 4th Edition) is that the appearance of monsters in the bestiary can indicate how strong and dangerous it is. If the creature is a humanoid with class levels, then point out the fact they look really brawny and are decked out with high quality gear.


An early version of essence pool allowed the reaver to spend a point to buff his spell/ability DCs, but I rather liked giving him a non-selfish option.

Exploit effects based on creatures usually work by using the creature type as a parameter. For example, there's an exploit that grants detect animals and plants, except it allows the reaver to detect creatures matching a type that a point of essence belongs to. I am pondering the idea of adding exploits that let you borrow from a pool of abilities provided by alter self and beast shape, similar to the alchemist's beastmorph.


Mudfoot wrote:

1) Shaken can stack to sickened, nauseated, staggered, stunned or whatever if you hit the target enough times. I'm not too keen on the ranged reaving at 1st level (automatic? save? ranged touch? does it work on undead, constructs, plants, oozes, outsiders?). He could reave on a touch attack if he's not using a weapon.

2) Buffing with reave points is essentially injecting energy into the allies. So Rage, Haste, Str boost, retry Fort saves or curing diseases would work.

3) Certainly 4 skill points. Being a Cha/Con class with 3/4 BAB and light armour, they'll dump Int. So 4 is a realistic minimum. But I'd probably give 1 exploit too.

Injecting a creature's power into an ally is a cool idea.

Hrm how would you feel about this:
1) Reave is a swift action that triggers on a successful melee attack.

2) A reaver can pick up an exploit to make reave affect a targeted creature at range (still requires a save) as a swift action (or maybe it still should be a standard?).

3) A reaver receives 4 + Int skill points

4) At 1st level, reaver receives their first exploit --or perhaps they receive a 1/2 level Heal check bonus that also allows them to treat supernatural ailments with the skill?

UsagiTaicho wrote:
My first thought when you said you want to debuff and the Reaver studies lifeforce is to inflice temporary ability score damage with the debuff. That might be over powered though, but I think it fits with the concept. Afterall, what is more your lifeforce than your ability scores? Without them you're nothing.

That's a thought, but that does sound fairly powerful. Maybe a ray of enfeeblement effect?

Amanuensis wrote:
Maybe they could have a reaving aura, allowing them to gain essence points for enemies that die within that aura, with the amount of essence depending on the strength of the soul that just passed on? That would give a gish nice synergy.

That sounds like a neat idea. Maybe an ability that allows the reaver to reave a dying creature as an immediate action.

Amanuensis wrote:
Essence could really represent a lot of things - tapping into a creature's experiences and knowledge, for example. But granting temporary hit points is rather fitting, in my opinion.

Precisely! Essence is any energy sustaining a creature's existence. The reaver can even take an exploit that lets them reave constructs and use the stolen animating energies to animate an object.

Amanuensis wrote:
You already have the option of a soul jar. Maybe it could be an intelligent item, inhabited by one or more captured souls of deceased creatures with different personalities/abilities? That would make for interesting roleplaying opportunities.

That's an interesting idea.


I feel really silly for not posting my current draft of the reave ability.

Reave (Su):

Reave (Su): At 1st level, a reaver can forcefully rip the life force from a single creature within 30 feet as a standard action. Alternatively, a reaver may reave himself or a creature he successfully hit with a melee weapon as a swift action.

The creature takes 1d4 + 1 negative energy damage every 2 reaver levels and becomes shaken for a number of rounds equal to the reaver's Charisma bonus. A successful Will save (DC 10 + 1/2 reaver level + Charisma modifier) halves the damage and negates the shakened condition. The shakened condition cannot advance to frightened or panicked. An undead creature takes no damage, but instead becomes staggered on a failed save. A reaver automatically saves against his own reave ability. This is a necromancy effect.

After the target takes damage, a reaver gains 1 point of essence. Unless the creature has immunity to necromancy effects, he gains the point regardless of whether or not the creature succeeded on its saving throw or took damage.

A reaver can use this a number of times per day equal to his Charisma modifier plus his level.


That sounds rather similar to the eldritch font. You need to make it more distinct. Keep iterating on it.


You need a clearly defined high concept. You must define your criteria and concept for this class. Write down what this class will be all about. Once your high concept is clearly defined, you can start making design decisions towards that goal.

When you started this, you wanted to make a blaster caster without any spells. That's not really going to work without it just being a less refined version of the 3.5e warlock, which has already been done several times. It also doesn't make any sense why a class called "arcane font" centered around blasting people with magic cannot cast any spells.


lorenlord wrote:

Hopefully this helps, or at least will send you in the right direction:

1) I like the 'hit with melee attack, reave as a swift action" aspect. I think it makes sense to get up close and personal to reave.

2) Maybe you could do a Cha-based (RP-wise) effect for 1 point at first level, such as: Reaving Bolster-Spend 1 point, all alies are affected as if by the Bard's Inspire Courage for a number of rounds equal to you Cha modifier. maybe the bonus scales as a Bard, or you spend additional points at those levels to get it to increase.

3) Maybe they get a limited Channel Ability, with a feat that could augment that if you spend reave points?

On a side note, every time I think of Reaving, I thihnk of Warmachine/hordes.

Anyway, hope this helps. Good luck!

1) The on-hit effect came to me because I realized that for a gish class, they did not really have any abilities that went well with doing basic attacks and fit thematically if the character used a weapon like a sickle. Maybe I could have it force a melee attack by default and make the ranged variant an exploit or something. Hrm...

2) Interesting, but I don't think that would fit the class.

3) Neat idea. I thought about letting them apply channel energy feats to reave or eldritch ray. I don't really want to give them straight up channel as that would give them too much versatility.


ElementalXX wrote:
I would recomend to have them all "as a standard action" note because i can see this abused with particulary rich gunslingers. 2d6 damage is like 2 enchantments worth. Since i see this more liek utilities i think is balanced and makes the gunslinger more versatile while not flaming a whole room with napalm on a fullattack

I have mixed feelings about making them standard actions, especially when other ranged weapon special ammo doesn't require them. On the other hand, it would allow me to make the special ammo more powerful.

ironexe wrote:
I think people's problem with firearms being at touch AC is that they think that the bullets pass through the armor. They don't. Think of it like this: Even if the bullet doesn't pass through the armor, it's going to pass the force of the blow through the armor, and it's going to hurt, ALOT. Possibly breaking bones, even without penetrating the armor. That's why they're only touch attacks in the first range increment, after the first range increment the bullets do not have the force behind them to hurt as much through armor.

This topic has become a dead horse at the moment. There's so many things wrong with firearm touch attacks in terms of believibility, flavor, and game mechanics. Even touch attacks themselves are a flawed concept.


I need feedback for a class feature central to a homebrew class of mine. The class is called the reaver, a sort of necromancer that's more concerned with dismantling and studying the life force of creatures rather than animating and controlling undead. They're like an anatomist, except they dissect a creature's life energy rather than their body.

Their main class feature is reave, which debuffs a creature and gives the reaver 1 "point of essence." Points of essence can be spent to use a blast attack or perform other neat effects, some of them differing depending on the creature the essence came from. But I am debating about two major things that have halted the development of the class:

1) I cannot decide how reave debuffs a target by default (they can pick up abilities that replace the default effect). At the moment, reave deals minor damage and shakens a target. However, I realized this did not make for a good way for a gish class to spend their standard action, which is important because they need to use this ability to gain essence points. I added a clause that they could reave as a swift action against someone they hit with a melee weapon, but I'm not confident about this.

2) I cannot decide what the default use of essence pool should be. While they can spend a point to use a blast effect, I'd like them to do something else with it at 1st level. I'd prefer it were something team-oriented. In my current draft, it grants temporary hit points to a touched creature.

3) The class's 1st level needs another class feature. Comparable classes, like the bard and magus and alchemist, have more class features and utility. I'm considering either A) Giving them their first exploit at 1st level, B) giving them better skills, or C) adding a class feature that grants a scaling bonus on Heal and expands what they can do with the skill.
Here's an outline of the class's abilities for better context.

Outline of class features for context:
  • BAB/HD/Skills/Proficiencies: 3/4 BAB, d8 Hit Dice, 2+Int skills, simple weapons and a few martial weapons with light armor proficiency

  • Spells: 6-level Charisma-based spontaneous caster using the witch spell list. Has cantrips.

  • Essence Pool: Begins each day with zero points of essence and can store up to Con bonus amount of points. A reaver can spend a point to give temporary hit points to a touched creature.

  • Reave: Deals minor damage and shakens a creature, gaining 1 point of essence in the process. A reaver can reave a creature in 30 feet as a standard action, reave himself as a swift action, or reave a creature he has hit with a melee weapon as a swift action.

  • Eldritch Ray: Fires a ray that deals 1d6 per odd level + Charisma mod negative energy damage. Costs 1 point of essence.

  • Death Resistance: At 2nd level, gains a scaling bonus against death effects. Undead reavers get channel resistance.

  • Reaver Exploits: Gains an exploit at 2nd level and every 2 levels after. Reaver exploits usually either A) augment reave to cause other status effects, B) change the shape of eldritch ray, or C) grant special abilities that cost points of essence, often having different effect depending on the creature the point came from.

  • Essence Study: At 3rd level, a reaver can study a point of essence and ask questions about the creature it came from, learning about their creature type and spells they know.

  • Soul Jar: At 3rd level, a reaver gains an item similar to an arcane bond and store an extra point of essence in it. While stored, the reaver temporarily adds a spell that the creature knows to his list of spells known. The soul jar can store more points as the reaver levels up, allowing him to temporarily know more spells.

  • Eldritch Mastery: At 20th level, a reaver’s soul jar becomes a pseudo-phylactery, allowing him to reincarnate next to it 24 hours after being slain.

  • I hate to sound harsh, but the class is kind of a mess. That worries me because it currently has only three class features.

    1) Making them a ranged fighter with an at-will blast is a heavily flawed idea for many reasons. The class will suffer the same problem as the fighter in having very little usefulness to his party outside of dealing damage in a specific way. Even the warlock suffered from this.

    2) The arcane blast is not comparable to a ranged weapon attack in any way. It does not consume ammunition. It does not require a weapon. The class does not need free hands to do it. The damage automatically increases with level. It's a touch attack, which basically guarantees it will hit at higher levels (touch AC doesn't scale with monster difficulty), unlike a normal weapon that targets normal AC. Force damage bypasses all DR and spell resistance and can hit incorporeal.

    3) At-will blasts are not really something that Pathfinder has. Every class in the game with a similar feature has a daily limit. The alchemist is a great example of this. In fact, the alchemist makes a great model to follow as it's a class with a blasting ability and a talent pool.

    4) Arcane blast deals a die of damage each level and can be increased. This is insanely powerful for a ranged blast. All comparable abilities deal a die of damage each odd level.

    5) Your class doesn't really fit any of the established structures in the game. Generally, classes fall into one of the following archetypes. These archetypes are so prevalent that Sean K Reynolds has based his new game's class system on this.
    A) Full Martial: This is a class almost fully dedicated to combat. They have great proficiencies and abilities that boost their damage. They typically have a Full BAB/d10 HD, 4+Int skills, and one or two good saves. However, they may have 4-level spellcasting or a talent pool, but never higher than that. Barbarians and rangers are good examples.
    B) Gish: This is a class that can cast spells but also can fight well. They typically have 3/4 BAB / d8 HD, one good save, and 6-level arcane spellcasting. In addition, these classes typically have very powerful class features as a trade-off for weaker spellcasting and fighting ability. Bards, magi, and inquisitors are good examples.
    C) Full Divine: This class can fight and cast 9th level divine spells. They usually have a 3/4 BAb, d8 HD, 2+Int skills, and two good saves. The reason they have a medium BAB (instead of a slow BAB like a wizard) is because divine spells are typically buffs and out of combat utility. However, because they have 9th level spells, their class features are usually not as strong. Oracles and druids are good examples.
    D) Full Arcane: This class primarily contributes to the party by casting powerful arcane spells. However, this comes at the cost of low combat statistics. They typically have a 1/2 BAB, d6 HD, 2+Int skills, and 9-level arcane spells. They usually have only one or two class features as 9-level spellcasting is considered their primary class feature.

    6) You cannot arbitrarily set the BAB and save progressions to whatever numbers you please. The game establishes three types of BAB progressions and two types of save progressions. Every creature/class has either a fast BAB (like a fighter), a medium BAB (like a bard), or a slow BAB (like a wizard). The Hit Die also correlate with the BAB. A class with a fast BAB has a d10, a medium BAB has a d8, and a slow BAB has a d6. Each class/creature has one or two "good" saves. A fighter has a good Fortitude save, but bad Reflex and Will saves. The barbarian and monk are exceptions to the above guidelines. The barbarian is the only class in the game with a d12 Hit Die. The monk is the only class in the game with three good saves.

    7) The class's high concept is really weak. A class needs a distinct identity, both mechanically and flavor-wise. A class needs to be something profession/lifestyle-wise exists in the game world. It must have enough uniqueness to give it identity and set it apart from other classes. At the same time, it must be general enough to serve as a foundation for multiple character concepts. I'm not seeing that here. Even the base arcanist was criticized for not having a distinct enough identity.

    8) Finally, the class's mechanics are really ill-inspired. A class needs more than a blast and a talent pool. (Quite honestly, I have a bad habit of having the bulk of my classes be a talent pool. While it gives the player more agency, the class's identity suffers as a result.)

    I know I dumped a lot of criticism on you. If you must only take one thing from this post, it's that class design is really hard. I find the best way to start is to brainstorm a solid concept, pick one of the typical archetypes (as described above), and then write an outline of the class's abilities. Once you're confident with the ability mechanics and had them peer reviewed, then start writing out the formal description of them.


    upho wrote:

    @ Cyrad: Thanks for sharing! Read up on your houserules and found quite a lot potentially useful there. My main question/doubt regarding your changes can be condensed into the following:

    What makes a musket competitive with a bow for a level 11+ PC with full BAB?

    If using Paizo's official rules, the answer to that question would be: "the PC is a musket master". Which would translate into: "the PC deals a lot more damage than any other ranged build can, but cannot really do anything else worth a crap, and no other class/archetype can make good use of the musket". These answers are almost the opposite of those I would prefer for my game, in which I'm hoping to make firearms worthwhile and good ranged alternatives for dedicated builds, despite not even including the gunslinger (or monk, fighter, ranger, cavalier or rogue) unless specifically requested by a player for a dip.

    Also, IMO, 2-handed ranged weapons should offer substantial benefits if there are 1-handed/light ranged weapons which can be used with TWF effectively, since ranged attacks virtually removes the greatest trade-offs of TWFing in melee (lessened damage bonuses and poor single attacks). How do you (plan to) approach this issue?

    No ranged weapon should beat the bow, in my opinion. The bow is the benchmark.

    That being said, have you read my house rules for the musket master? They receive a deed that grants them free Vital Strike feats with two-handed firearms at earlier levels than normal. I intend to establish two-handed firearms as longer ranged firearms that can only shoot once per round, but hit like a truck. In addition, I want to present scatter guns as a fun niche build. I intend to test scatter weapons next session in my campaign by introducing enemies carrying blunderbusses.


    You have hardly any content here. The only thing I see is the arcane skills that seem way too powerful. You should rename them as "Skills" are already existing game mechanics. Generally, classes shouldn't have powerful at-will blasts for a variety of reasons. Not only is ability economy an issue, but also it overloads the class's power into a single ability. The class becomes a boring one-trick pony.

    If this is your first time homebrewing material, I highly recommend you start smaller, an archetype at the very least. Designing classes is very difficult, and your inexperience very clearly shows. I suggest you search for other homebrew warlock concepts as several people have tried converting the warlock to Pathfinder and adding their own spins to it.


    glosz wrote:
    Cyrad wrote:
    That's completely untrue. Martials heavily rely on stat-boosting items to stay relevant, so much that one of Pathfinder's designers is kickstarting a new RPG that specifically addresses that issue.
    How so?

    Martials have severely less versatility than spellcasters. Martial classes give much fewer options to martials for solving problems, resigning weapon damage as their primary contribution. As a result, a martial needs high stats to stay useful to the party because their contribution to the party is limited to putting out numbers. In addition, the game scales monsters with the assumption the PCs receive gear with respect to the Wealth By Level table.

    All of this is commonly known information by anyone with experience in D&D and Pathfinder.

    glosz wrote:
    Bonus spells and higher DC is way better than a +1 here or there.

    Not all spells require DCs. In fact, some of the best spells don't need one. Spells automatically become more powerful as the caster gains levels. Weapon damage, on the other hand, always stays the same unless the character gets magic items, feats, or damage-increasing class features (which most classes only receive every 4-5 levels).

    glosz wrote:

    Also with 3 different stats to augment vs saving throws vs 1 stat for the casters the martial is always playing catch up

    So by banning stat boosting items the martial needs to worry less about those pesky spell DC's.

    How? Are you suggesting that stat-boosting items should be banned so enemy spellcasters will have lower spell DCs? That's ridiculous!

    1) You're assuming PCs will only fight level appropriate NPCs with class levels, which is usually not the case. Banning items won't make monster ability DCs any lower.

    2) Removing such magic items also removes cloak of resistance, a staple item that boosts ALL saves against ALL effects.

    3) While martial's ability to save against effects is important, that pales in comparison to the other ways banning stat magic items cripples them.


    glosz wrote:
    redcelt32 wrote:
    I do however really like this rule to limit the ridiculous one-stat-to-rule-them-all stat stacking that happens
    Why not just ban stat boosting items altogether? Casters benefit the most from them and they are already powerful enough.

    That's completely untrue. Martials heavily rely on stat-boosting items to stay relevant, so much that one of Pathfinder's designers is kickstarting a new RPG that specifically addresses that issue. Banning stat-boosting items would cripple fighters. The fighter in my campaign had suffered because I became too stingy with treasure.


    1 person marked this as a favorite.
    Ciaran Barnes wrote:
    A sentient plant creature bent on revenge looks for patches of sleeping humans and chooses one with the biggest, roundest head. He cuts it off at the neck-vine and brings it home. After some refrshments, the plant creature opens the top, scrapes out the gooey insides, mutilates the face, and lights the inside on fire. How will the PCs track down this monster?

    Thanks to your successful Linguistics check, you manage to decipher the incoherent babble of the local townsfolk, who report that the last victim was a small child found dead this morning in the pumpkin patch and wrapped up in a blue blanket.

    1 to 50 of 1,236 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | next > last >>

    ©2002–2014 Paizo Inc.®. Need help? Email customer.service@paizo.com or call 425-250-0800 during our business hours: Monday–Friday, 10 AM–5 PM Pacific Time. View our privacy policy. Paizo Inc., Paizo, the Paizo golem logo, Pathfinder, the Pathfinder logo, Pathfinder Society, GameMastery, and Planet Stories are registered trademarks of Paizo Inc., and Pathfinder Roleplaying Game, Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Pathfinder Adventure Path, Pathfinder Adventure Card Game, Pathfinder Player Companion, Pathfinder Modules, Pathfinder Tales, Pathfinder Battles, Pathfinder Online, PaizoCon, RPG Superstar, The Golem's Got It, Titanic Games, the Titanic logo, and the Planet Stories planet logo are trademarks of Paizo Inc. Dungeons & Dragons, Dragon, Dungeon, and Polyhedron are registered trademarks of Wizards of the Coast, Inc., a subsidiary of Hasbro, Inc., and have been used by Paizo Inc. under license. Most product names are trademarks owned or used under license by the companies that publish those products; use of such names without mention of trademark status should not be construed as a challenge to such status.