I'm going to be running Rise of the Runelords (the second attempt....) for my real life group starting soon. Using PFRPG rules.

So,I decided to start converting things. The bestiary preview has Goblins in (win!) and I doubt goblin dogs need any converting (except to work out the CMB/CMD). That just leaves the humans, and the classed goblins to be going on with.

So I started with the Goblin Warchanter. The only ability adjustments I have are in the bestiary preview, so I applied those to the warchanter in PF#1, I then compared that result with the ability scores in the "generating an NPC" part of the rulebook, and started recreatng the goblin from scratch.

The interesting thing is that from what I can tell, the goblin in PF#1 used a heroic array consiting of 8,10,12,12,13,15, while the one in the rulebook is 8,10,12,13,14,15...

That left a conundrum, where would a warchanter put that score of 14? I decided on Dex.

The result is below. Please critique. I've tried to keep all the same feats etc as in the PF. What haved I missed?

Goblin Warchanter
Female Goblin Bard 1
Init: +4 Senses: Darkvision 60ft
Perception: +5
----
AC: 18 Touch:15 Flat Footed:14
HP:6(1d8+1)
Fort: +1 Ref: +6 Will: +3 (+1 vs Fear/Charm)
----
Speed: 30ft
Melee: Whip +1 (1d2 non leathal) or
dogslicer +1 (19-20/x3)
Ranged: Shortbow +6 (1d4+1/x3)
Spells Known: Daze, Ghots Sounds (DC 12) Mage Hand, Message, Hideous Laughter (DC13), Cause Fear
Spells Per Day: 1st: 1
----
Base Atk: +0 CMB: -2 CMD: 12
Feats: Combat Reflexes, Exotic Weapon: whip.
Skills: Perception +5, Stealth +8, Perform(Song) +5, Ride +8, Acrobatics +8
SQ: Bardic Performance (Countersong, Distraction, Fascinate, Inspire Courage) 5 rounds/day

The result is below. Please critique. I've tried to keep all the same feats etc as in the PF. What have I missed?

Well, technically, Bardic Knowledge, though I don't see the ability to use Knowledge skills untrained being used much in combat. :)

More importantly, cantrips (which you have listed as spells); a 1st level bard will know four of them and can use them all day long. If I were a Warchanter, I'd probably take Daze, Flare, Lullaby and Resistance, but YMMV. In any case I'd separate them from Spells Known.

Nope, the warchanter used the elite array:
Str 10(-2), Dex 14(+2), Con 13, Int 8, Wis 12, Cha 15(-2)

So in PFRPG, it'd wind up with Str 8, Dex 18, Con 13, Int 8, Wis 12, Cha 13.

I'm currently in the process of doing some conversion work over at d20pfsrd, and though I'm starting with Legacy of Fire (as I'm running it myself...), I have the first adventure of RotRL converted to beta already. So really, I should stick that up, because it doesn't take much to go from beta to final...

Well, anyway, I did the changes on the warchanter just now. I'll try and do some more of Burnt Offerings shortly. Though I'm skipping some monsters to see what (if anything) the Bestiary does to them...

By the way, I'd appreciate any comments on the conversions I've been doing; extra eyes for errata are always welcome.

GOBLIN WARCHANTER CR 1/2
XP 200
Goblin bard 1 (Bestiary 156)
NE Small humanoid (goblinoid)
Init +4; Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Perception +5

DEFENSES
-------------------------------------------------------------------
AC 18, touch 15, flat-footed 14 (+3 armor, +4 Dex, +1 size)
hp 9 (1d8+1)
Fort +1, Ref +6, Will +3

OFFENSE
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Speed 30 ft.
Melee whip +0 (1d2–1 nonlethal) or dogslicer +0 (1d4–1/19–20)
Ranged shortbow +5 (1d4–1/×3)
Special Attacks bardic performance (5 rounds/day), countersong, distraction, fascinate (DC 11), inspire courage +1
Spells Known (CL 1st)
1st (2/day)—cure light wounds, grease (DC 12)
0—daze (DC 11), ghost sound (DC 11), mage hand, message

STATISTICS
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Str 8, Dex 18, Con 13, Int 8, Wis 12, Cha 13
Base Atk +0; CMB –2; CMD 12
Feats Combat Reflexes
Skills Acrobatics +8, Escape Artist +8, Perception +5, Perform (song) +5, Sleight of Hand +8, Stealth +16
Languages Common, Goblin
SQ bardic knowledge (+1)
Combat Gear potion of cure light wounds; Other Gear studded leather armor, whip, dogslicer, shortbow with 20 arrows, 20 gp

Looks correct except for the CR and xp. As a 1st level Bard, shouldn't it have a CR1 and 400 xp?

EDIT: Oh, and I think her melee and ranged attack is missing her Small Sized +1 modifier... or I'm just really tired and can't focus.

EDIT AGAIN: Either that or you didn't add in the inspire courage bonus...

Before Combat The warchanter activates inspire courage, gaining a +1 morale bonus on saving throws against fear and charm and on weapon attack and damage rolls (included in the stats above).

Looks correct except for the CR and xp. As a 1st level Bard, shouldn't it have a CR1 and 400 xp?

Adding NPCs: Creatures whose Hit Dice are solely a factor of their class levels and not a feature of their race, such as all of the PC races detailed in Chapter 2, are factored into combats a little differently than normal monsters or monsters with class levels. A creature that possesses class levels, but does not have any racial Hit Dice, is factored in as a creature with a CR equal to its class levels –1. A creature that only possesses non-player class levels (such as a warrior or adept—see page 448) is factored in as a creature with a CR equal to its class levels –2. If this reduction would reduce a creature’s CR to below 1, its CR drops one step on the following progression for each step below 1 this reduction would make: 1/2, 1/3, 1/4, 1/6, 1/8.

So, nope. In PFRPG, a goblin bard 1 is CR 1/2.

EDIT AGAIN: Either that or you didn't add in the inspire courage bonus...

I didn't add this in, this is true, because of the change to bardic music to a rounds per day mechanic. In 3.5e she could have started before combat and continued singing no matter how long. In PFRPG she will have to ration those rounds. If the combat drags on, it's likely the inspire courage bonus will disappear. So I figured that it would be better to have her stats written without it.

Core Rulebook, p398 wrote:

Adding NPCs: Creatures whose Hit Dice are solely a factor of their class levels and not a feature of their race, such as all of the PC races detailed in Chapter 2, are factored into combats a little differently than normal monsters or monsters with class levels. A creature that possesses class levels, but does not have any racial Hit Dice, is factored in as a creature with a CR equal to its class levels –1. A creature that only possesses non-player class levels (such as a warrior or adept—see page 448) is factored in as a creature with a CR equal to its class levels –2. If this reduction would reduce a creature’s CR to below 1, its CR drops one step on the following progression for each step below 1 this reduction would make: 1/2, 1/3, 1/4, 1/6, 1/8.

So, nope. In PFRPG, a goblin bard 1 is CR 1/2.

ah gotcha! Thanks for the clarification.

Now that I look over the bestiary preview, that becomes apparent with the Tengu Rouge and Tiefling Rogue. I didn't catch that before.

gets out his eraser and makes a couple changes

Cool, thats for the hints, the next one should be a little closer to reality!

By the way, how do you know what Bestiary page number the Goblin is on?

When a friend of mine finishes running Age of Worms, I'm going to be running this AP, and I'm 90% sure I'm convert it to Pathfinder. We'll see how it goes.

So, nope. In PFRPG, a goblin bard 1 is CR 1/2.

So, if you want to keep the goblin warchanter as the same challenge as it was meant to be, it should be a goblin bard 2 instead :)

True that, Are! Of course, this assumes that a Goblin Bard 1 was ever actually a "CR 1" challenge even in 3.5e. :)

I actually just finished converting all the monsters in Burnt Offerings last night after a long break, check them out here if you're interested. I'd appreciate extra pairs of eyes on that too.

I actually just finished converting all the monsters in Burnt Offerings last night after a long break, ...

Thank you Alice.

I tried posting to the d20pfsrd site some problems I found with some of the Burnt Offerings conversions, but I don't think anyone has even seen that post.

Is it just me, or does the goblin warchanter in burnt offerings have one too many feats for a level one bard?

True that, Are! Of course, this assumes that a Goblin Bard 1 was ever actually a "CR 1" challenge even in 3.5e. :)

Depends how many allies he has, kinda. A lone goblin bard? Probably not. But a goblin bard with a dozen or so buddies, all getting +1 to hit and damage? That's pretty grisly at 1st level.

I actually just finished converting all the monsters in Burnt Offerings last night after a long break, check them out here if you're interested. I'd appreciate extra pairs of eyes on that too.

Looks great Alice, and your conversions will save me quite a bit of time!

At a glance, your version of Longtooth (in Chapter 5) looks just like my own.

Since I'm in Chapter 5, I might see if I have time to add to it.. unless those are your personal conversions? (And again, if I have time)

Hey, thanks for the comments everyone! If you notice any errors, please point them out. I'm probably more likely to notice them if you post on the d20pfsrd errata forum (you don't need an account iirc), though.

I'm not the one who did Longtooth, as some other person helping out said he would like to do RotRL... so I'm breaking and moving onto LoF. Except I just noticed someone on these boards has been converting it... :)

That being said, I'm sure there's no harm in you putting up anything you do, Watcher.

So, when converting RotR to Pathfinder, should all the NPCs have one level added to them? I'm just worried about the reduction in xp causing the characters to fall behind in levels.

So, when converting RotR to Pathfinder, should all the NPCs have one level added to them? I'm just worried about the reduction in xp causing the characters to fall behind in levels.

I have reached the end of HMM with my group and we are a whole level behind. I suggest you increase the level of NPCs. Also since 3.5 is designed for a 4 character party and PRPG is for a 4-5 character party.

In general I think the CR and exact balance of each encounter has to be checked.

There's something of a level gap between PF2 and PF3, that's likely why your group is a level behind.

I'm running RotRL under PF rules and I didn't have to adjust CRs and balance so far. OK, except Xanesha, but she's a special case :-)

There's something of a level gap between PF2 and PF3, that's likely why your group is a level behind.

I'm running RotRL under PF rules and I didn't have to adjust CRs and balance so far. OK, except Xanesha, but she's a special case :-)

My group has lagged behind from PF1 but it is first now (between PF3 and PF4) that the gap is so significant that a simple sidetrek cannot compensate for it (hence I am running 7SoS between the two). I my group has varied between 5 and 6 PCs but I have always given xp as where they 4 characters. I have even given xp for encounters the party have bypassed to avoid this situation, but to no avail.

Gorbacz wrote:

There's something of a level gap between PF2 and PF3, that's likely why your group is a level behind.

I'm running RotRL under PF rules and I didn't have to adjust CRs and balance so far. OK, except Xanesha, but she's a special case :-)

My group has lagged behind from PF1 but it is first now (between PF3 and PF4) that the gap is so significant that a simple sidetrek cannot compensate for it (hence I am running 7SoS between the two). I my group has varied between 5 and 6 PCs but I have always given xp as where they 4 characters. I have even given xp for encounters the party have bypassed to avoid this situation, but to no avail.

Which PF XP progression are you using ?

Which PF XP progression are you using ?

The medium rate on table 3-1 and the total XP awards on table 12-2.

EDIT: the PCs might have more xp by now if I had used the abstract xp award method, but would still not be at the level needed to start PF4.

Aaah there you go. 3.5 modules are supposed to be ran with Fast progression in order to match PF advancement rates. That's how I run RotRL and it keeps me at expected advancement (actually 1 level ahead, but that's because I ran 2 sidetreks).

Aaah there you go. 3.5 modules are supposed to be ran with Fast progression in order to match PF advancement rates. That's how I run RotRL and it keeps me at expected advancement (actually 1 level ahead, but that's because I ran 2 sidetreks).

Is that general for all 3.5 material?

Yes. 3.5 stuff is supposed to be ran with Fast XP progression. For legal reasons (XP tables and rules are *not* part of the SRD) that could not be openly stated in the rules, but back in Beta Jason did state that legacy 3.5 material should go with Fast rules.

Actually, the relevant info can be found in the Conversion Guide:

One of the first decisions you need to make concerns the rate of advancement for the group. For a slow game, the PCs will gain a level after having faced roughly 30 encounters. For a medium game, they will gain a level after 20 encounters. A fast game (which was the default for 3.5) allowed the PCs to gain a level after about 13 encounters. This decision determines the XP chart used by the PCs to gain levels (see page 30) and the treasure table used to add treasure to encounters (see page 399).

Hi Guys,

ehm I wanna try to play ROTR with my Group but have a few questions.
It is right to exchange all Monsters with the new Monster(Statswise) from the Bestiary? If it is, should I still use the fast XP Method? I have 5-6 Players and dont know if that may be a problem for the campaign.
I bought the ROTR-Mapfolio to try it out, but the most maps, are to small for Miniatures -> Fight. Do you amplify every map or do you simply scetch the outlines and show the maps? Another problem is that on this maps often are numbers or letters.
I know playerknowledge and pcknowledge should be apart, it's easier to say than to do. We are a very fresh rpggroup.
I'm sorry for my bad english but hope you guys can understand me.

Hi Guys,

ehm I wanna try to play ROTR with my Group but have a few questions.
It is right to exchange all Monsters with the new Monster(Statswise) from the Bestiary? If it is, should I still use the fast XP Method? I have 5-6 Players and dont know if that may be a problem for the campaign.
I bought the ROTR-Mapfolio to try it out, but the most maps, are to small for Miniatures -> Fight. Do you amplify every map or do you simply scetch the outlines and show the maps? Another problem is that on this maps often are numbers or letters.
I know playerknowledge and pcknowledge should be apart, it's easier to say than to do. We are a very fresh rpggroup.
I'm sorry for my bad english but hope you guys can understand me.

I think the RotRL AP is as good as any to start playing RPGs. There are some pitfalls though and these message boards will provide help handling them.

I think you should run the monsters by the F Bestiary. They are balanced to match the more powerful PRPG characters. If you use the fast XP progression (as mentioned above) you should do fine. Also since you have 5-6 characters it will still remain balanced even if your party comes a littl behind xp-wise. With the extra characters the party as a whole will be stronger.

For battles with minies I will suggest you buy a vinyl battle mat. Basically it is a sort of plastic table cloth that can be drawn upon with non-permanent markers and cleaned of easily after each encounter. It will give you a lot of flexibility and will last forever. I have one from the Chessex product line and can recomend it, if it is still available. If not I am sure your local game store will find something equally suited.
I sometimes make prits from the map folio. Depending on the scale of the map you may need to add extra grid lines. This and the removal of reference numbers for rooms can eaily be edited away with photoshop, illustrator or any equivalent software... it does however take a bit of time.

Hey Alice!,
Just wanna say thanks for putting together the conversions, you have saved me alot of time! *Raises bony little arms offering a hug*

I'm not the one who did Longtooth, as some other person helping out said he would like to do RotRL... so I'm breaking and moving onto LoF. Except I just noticed someone on these boards has been converting it... :)

I was the one who wanted to to RotRL, but me and google.sites don't get along; I don't know if it's the software or just how d20pfsrd is organized, but I can't wrap my head around it. Or rather, it requires too much effort for me to wrap my head around.