Goblin Squad Member
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with such a small playerbase, and with that small playerbase being grown in small increments...
would it be too much to ask to have naming conventions for characters (and guilds)?
such as
1) Capital first letter followed by lowercase letters for both first and last name
2) No special characters (only ' and -)
3) No immersion breaking names
4) No vulgur (or implied vulgur) names
5) No names with a play on words
etc
etc
these could be moderated (whether by human or by AI) naming with accepted/declined upon character creation with a fantasy name generator for a guide
and guild names moderated also
I for one would love to log on and not see:
"PLAYERS ONLINE: Yo_Momma, ManBeast, Da$#!+, Ben Dover, U-my-%&*%# , etc
And I would also not want to have to hire the OneDayKillaz for an assassination contract.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I think most of these would be very easy (and reasonable) to enforce. In LOTRO, all names are capitalized by default, and nothing beyond letters are allowed.
Of course, this doesn't stop players with names like Manboobs, but it's a great start. Three, four and five are a bit more subjective, depending on how one defines vulgar and immersion breaking.
Goblinworks Founder
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Usually there's a dictionary of words that are saved that the server searches and decides if it's acceptable?
I agree no special characters and probably popular character names ex: Driz Drizzt would be names that are forbidden for obvious reasons.
Last names would also be where the combinations come into play, you get by the first name part, but continue what you wanted to put in with the last name.
5) No names with a play on words
Awwwwwwwwww.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I think most of these would be very easy (and reasonable) to enforce. In LOTRO, all names are capitalized by default, and nothing beyond letters are allowed.
Of course, this doesn't stop players with names like Manboobs, but it's a great start. Three, four and five are a bit more subjective, depending on how one defines vulgar and immersion breaking.
@Beacher - a REAL LIFE mod clears or doesn't clear the name (since there are so few players added each month
so it would DEFINITELY stop Manboobs
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Goblin Squad Member
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Oh! someone has an iconic name? wait... aren't there like 4 million John Smiths in the world? Don't millions of spanish parents name their children Jesus? How many Muhammads live in the world?
There is actually someone with my EXACT full name, age and birthday in the county (not country) that i live in that shares the same doctor as I do.
If you go around the world, you will find that the vast majority of USA's 'bad words' refer to different things. How do you keep everyone happy when everyone sees things differently.
I am 100% against any form of limitation on naming that does not have a root in software restrictions(allowed characters and length).
If you don't like a word or name, that is YOUR problem, not something to burden other people with.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Ya...getting a bit authoritarian wanting to control how other people play the game down to a level like this.
Play the game how you want to. Form a guild and enforce your own naming rules if you want to. But don`t go too far overboard with telling other people how they should be having fun.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I realize people have a different sense of humor, but it's usually striking me that players that choose names of avatars eg bilbobaggins (replace 1st b with d; and 3rd b with sh) make the virtual world a bit like areas of city with tagging-graffiti (the scrawling mess designs). There is a low level divisive intention being broadcast. It's mostly innocuous, but it's better overall for the social environment if these "tagging"'s are absent.
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Goblin Squad Member
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@coach, there will certainly be naming guidelines in the EULA, and the mods will certainly respond to reports of improper names.
I would be wary of following Blaeringr's advice to enforce your own naming rules, as that can easily turn into griefing, which will also be against the EULA, and subject to moderator correction as well.
My advice would be to simply report any names you feel are improper and let the mods deal with it. But be prepared to accept that there will be names which you think are improper even though the mods consider them acceptable. Perhaps it will be easier to accept if you consider that there are real life people in the USA whose parents named them something like "Moon Unit".
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Goblin Squad Member
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I would be wary of following Blaeringr's advice to enforce your own naming rules, as that can easily turn into griefing, which will also be against the EULA, and subject to moderator correction as well.
I think that runs counter to the spirit of this project, Nihimon. As I understand it, this game is meant to be primarily social--how we interact is at the heart of it. Griefing is messing with people because you take pleasure in ruining their gaming experience--being a dick. Reacting socially to another's choice to be a dick ("LOL! MOON UNIT LFG w/ MAD LEWTZ ROFL!!!!!!!!") is the exact opposite of griefing.
We want emergent social interaction.
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Goblin Squad Member
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@Mbando, I didn't say it was griefing. I said that it "can easily turn into" griefing. Deciding to kill a player's characters repeatedly, even if you have a reason that you don't like his names, will probably be considered griefing by the mods. At least, I hope it would. Just like I hope they don't allow someone to repeatedly kill new Elves because he doesn't like Elves...
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Goblin Squad Member
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Bro, someone who played a character that hated elves, and tried to gank them any chance they got, sounds amazingly cool and rich. Absent some kind of exploit (i.e. figuring out a gap in the marshal protection, and being able to unlawfully kill outside the rules), I am 100% ok with that.
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Goblin Squad Member
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your example of Drizzt would fall under #3 and thus get squashed by the ModsYou miss the joke and the point. The players alone would be enough of a deterrent as they would kill him for having the name. Least I would, several times.
no i COMPLETELY got the joke and the point (own every FR product ever printed and so vastly familiar with Drizz't and the tendency for online players to play goodly drow rangers)
was a GM in a hardcore RP server in neverwinter nights that banned the playing of good drow
so trust me i get it, i should have put the smiley face after my post mayhaps
my point was that luckily for him he wouldn't make it in game with that name to be instakilled all day LOL
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Goblin Squad Member
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Oh! someone has an iconic name? wait... aren't there like 4 million John Smiths in the world? Don't millions of spanish parents name their children Jesus? How many Muhammads live in the world?
There is actually someone with my EXACT full name, age and birthday in the county (not country) that i live in that shares the same doctor as I do.
If you go around the world, you will find that the vast majority of USA's 'bad words' refer to different things. How do you keep everyone happy when everyone sees things differently.
I am 100% against any form of limitation on naming that does not have a root in software restrictions(allowed characters and length).
If you don't like a word or name, that is YOUR problem, not something to burden other people with.
who said anything about limiting normal sounding names?
i'll ask a question, what would your PF GM say if you showed him your character sheet with the name KewlDoodz?
he'd tell you to change the name
your post went off on a tangent somewhere in the ether, I re-read my initial post three times and can't find ANYTHING that even remotely resembles what you are talking about
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Goblin Squad Member
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What would my PF GM say? I don't know because I don't have one and never will. I'm not an RP-er and i could care less about the names I see. PFO is not an RP-only game, and GW has said nothing about specifically catering to the RP crowd in a way that ruins other players enjoyment.
That first line is about using iconic names not normal sounding names, there should be no restrictions, if I want to use the name of an iconic PF character, i shouldn't be told i can't.
You are trying to force your opinion on other people, with I firmly believe is wrong. If you don't like something, ignore it.
OneDayKillaz sounds like a half-orc mercenary clan to me.
Part of my post is also expressing an interest for not having unique names (which is off the main point, but part of the topic), which i believe reduces the amount of 'silly' names because what fun is the name Man Boobs, if 50 other people have the same name? The people that name themselves like that want to be 'that guy' not 'one of those guys'
Goblinworks Executive Founder
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Even if names are completely unregulated, there may be much less of a problem than Coach is afraid of. I believe Valkenr is in a small minority; most of the folks here are here because they actually do care about the table game and it's IP. (That's not a dig on anyone, just a statement.)
If the first 4,500 consists mostly of folks who obviously do care about the IP (as Coach and Waruko and I do) and folks who want to keep some kind of touch with the tropes and character of the IP even if they are not RPers (ex: Valkenr), then likely the initial player base will have informal mores not to take the kinds of names Coach is crying foul over.
There seems to be a strongly implied hint that RP does, indeed, matter to GW. Let's see: this project could be called Kingmaker Online, every Kickstarter reward has been geared to a table top role player, and every prior project advertised on the kickstarter page has been an earlier TT RPG/CCG (VtM, MtG, OGL, PFRPG, etc). Every big honcho on the project is coming out of the TT gaming world, not the VG world. The message board for this project and big advertising push for this project both come from the main site of a major TTRPG. The company sells pretty much nothing but table-top gaming, especially RPGs. Something to keep in mind.
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Goblin Squad Member
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You are trying to force your opinion on other people, with I firmly believe is wrong. If you don't like something, ignore it.
Sorry, this makes me laugh. Your opinion is that he's wrong, and your opinion is right, and trying to force it on him.
Secondly, "if you don't like something, ignore it" is not how society works. Don't like your neighbor being murdered? Ignore it. Don't like your home being robbed? Ignore it.
Society works by establishing expected norms for everyone to operate within. And I'd rather have an immersive world without a bunch of names like "manboobs" in it.
I just want to know why I can't use wordplay.
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Goblin Squad Member
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@Nihimon: Griefing would be finding a way to work the game to mess with people. A very general example is training--the game mechanisms are meant to do one thing, but you use them to do something different to mess with someone else. In this case, if you found some way to get around the design of safe (safer?) areas, and gank lowbies, you'd be circumventing the game design.
But to the best of my understanding, way out in the wild, the game will be designed to let people do what they want in order to create social content. So if there is some human bandit group that kills any non-human that walks into their valley, they could do that forevers. If I meet you in the woods, far away from civilized areas, and I cut you down in cold-blood, that's cool. And if I see you again I can do it. And again. Forever, and that's awesome, because it gives you a good reason to hire protection, or be part of a fellowship that works to make the world safer.
Unless I am misunderstanding the framework of social interaction here?
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Goblinworks Executive Founder
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You are trying to force your opinion on other people, with I firmly believe is wrong. If you don't like something, ignore it.
Sorry, this makes me laugh. Your opinion is that he's wrong, and your opinion is right, and trying to force it on him.
Secondly, "if you don't like something, ignore it" is not how society works. Don't like your neighbor being murdered? Ignore it. Don't like your home being robbed? Ignore it.
That is certainly a wildly hyperbolic straw man of what he/she was saying, even though I am sympathetic to your point of view and also would rather not see Manboobs and DR-izz'+ float across my screen.
I meet you in the woods, far away from civilized areas, and I cut you down in cold-blood, that's cool. And if I see you again I can do it. And again. Forever, and that's awesome
Welp I know who I'll be avoiding playing on the same server as.
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Goblin Squad Member
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But what fun is that for ME?! :(
my point was that luckily for him he wouldn't make it in game with that name to be instakilled all day LOL
Devs: umm .. yeah.... Waruko, we have a complaint from a Drizz't fellow that says you have griefed him. Killing him everytime he logs on.
Waruko: That's true.
Devs: ohh ... ummm ... care to give us your side of the story, we have a policy against Griefing, it's in the downloadable manual.
Waruko: He named his character Drizz't.
Devs: Good point. Carry on.
hopefully naming conventions will save you the three minutes of your life you won't get back from having to go through the conversation above :)
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It is less about the rp aspect, tho that is major part of it for many.
To me it is escapism and immersion. I play to put myself into another universe, or setting outside of the real world. When I meet people with pop culture names, recycled names from other universes, and or dude speak names, it rips me right out of that place. Congratulations, with one simple "easily ignored" name, they have undermined the entire point of gaming for many of us.
Filters, and ignore features go a long way, but do not solve the problem. The solution is only through proper enforcement, and live support. If a name is reported, it should be reviewed and the offender questioned. If no suitable response, reason, or meaning is given to the name, GM's should change it on the spot. Hopefully in a knowledgeable and respectable manner. Censorship is not the affect I am going for, somewhere in the middle lies the answer.
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Goblin Squad Member
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@Mbando, you may be right, but that's not the way I read it...
From To Live and Die in the River Kingdoms:
One thing that we're deeply committed to at Goblinworks is building a game that has a low tolerance for "griefing." Loosely defined, griefing means taking actions within the game that are designed to harass another player to elicit bad feelings without any other reasonable purpose. Griefing encompasses a wide spectrum of behavior, and there will be players who feel that they have been subjected to griefing while their opponents feel they're engaged in legitimate gameplay. An example is a group who attacks and kills trespassers in a certain area to deny access to that territory to other players. The people trying to get in might feel it's unfair that they keep getting attacked and killed, whereas the attackers feel completely justified in defending their territory. Goblinworks will be creating an organic, evolving policy on griefing to identify practices that we consider abusive. We will take severe action out-of-game against regularly abusive players, while less flagrant issues will be dealt with in-game by way of an innovative bounty system designed to deter unwanted aggression.
I read that to say that if someone kills me over and over because they don't like the name "Nihimon", even if I'm capstoned and out in the wilderness, then GW will put a stop to it.
Obviously, if I'm trying to enter someone's territory and they kill me every time, that's something entirely different. But if my everyday experience involves getting killed, no matter where I am, by the same individual or group, then I expect GW to consider that griefing and respond accordingly. (barring issues where it's obviously my fault, not valid in Oklahoma, etc., etc., etc.)
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Goblin Squad Member
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But what fun is that for ME?! :(
my point was that luckily for him he wouldn't make it in game with that name to be instakilled all day LOLDevs: umm .. yeah.... Waruko, we have a complaint from a Drizz't fellow that says you have griefed him. Killing him everytime he logs on.
Waruko: That's true.
Devs: ohh ... ummm ... care to give us your side of the story, we have a policy against Griefing, it's in the downloadable manual.
Waruko: He named his character Drizz't.
Devs: Good point. Carry on.
hopefully naming conventions will save you the three minutes of your life you won't get back from having to go through the conversation above :)
I will not lie, that is exactly how it would play out. Cept they would be asking about "OneDayKillaz" too. ^_^
" without any other reasonable purpose."
Waruko: He doesn't like you.
Luke Skystone: Sorry.
Waruko: [grabbing Luke] *I* don't like you either. You just watch yourself. We're wanted men. I have the death sentence on twelve hexes.
Luke: I'll be careful.
Waruko: You'll be dead!
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Goblin Squad Member
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That is certainly a wildly hyperbolic straw man of what he/she was saying, even though I am sympathetic to your point of view and also would rather not see Manboobs and DR-izz'+ float across my screen.You are trying to force your opinion on other people, with I firmly believe is wrong. If you don't like something, ignore it.
Sorry, this makes me laugh. Your opinion is that he's wrong, and your opinion is right, and trying to force it on him.
Secondly, "if you don't like something, ignore it" is not how society works. Don't like your neighbor being murdered? Ignore it. Don't like your home being robbed? Ignore it.
Well, would you at least agree with me that they are trying to push their viewpoint on everyone else also? (Yes, I knew it was a strawman, but one designed to highlight how society is about accepted norms)
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Goblinworks Executive Founder
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@ Alexander Damocles: Amen, brother. It's an inherent problem with any attempt to set up a rule regarding an activity. One side will cry out, "We should be able to do whatever we want!" and the other, "We should be allowed to choose rules by which we improve our community!" Both sides will with some truth say the "other guys" are "imposing on us."
@ Coach: While your question was directed at someone else, there is certainly a legitimate case to be made by someone saying, "Look, if someone decides to do that, and that's what some players are doing, who are we to tell them they are 'wrong' for playing the game as they see fit, provided they are not harassing or annoying other players? You might think it's silly and immature, but that's your opinion and they paid for a subscription just as you did."
I really would rather see names which fit the setting, but I cannot justify from my opinion saying that the hypothetical argument above doesn't hold any water.
@ Waruko: You wouldn't get to kill Drizz't over and over. There would be a line for that. It'd be like a roller coaster; two hours standing about waiting, then thirty seconds of fun and someone would try to sell you a screen-cap of you killing Drizz't afterwards.
And since it's not obvious in text, that's tongue-in-cheek.
Ahem, as for the original topic...
I would guess a fair number of the folks reading this are going to be some of the influential early adopters. If that's the case, regardless of what the dev's ultimately decide, can we agree to an informal agreement to encourage names in the spirit of the setting? No harassment, no griefing, but positive encouragement? The initial attitude of a game's community can quickly permeate the whole group.
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Goblin Squad Member
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@ Alexander Damocles: Amen, brother. It's an inherent problem with any attempt to set up a rule regarding an activity. One side will cry out, "We should be able to do whatever we want!" and the other, "We should be allowed to choose rules by which we improve our community!" Both sides will with some truth say the "other guys" are "imposing on us."
@ Coach: While your question was directed at someone else, there is certainly a legitimate case to be made by someone saying, "Look, if someone decides to do that, and that's what some players are doing, who are we to tell them they are 'wrong' for playing the game as they see fit, provided they are not harassing or annoying other players? You might think it's silly and immature, but that's your opinion and they paid for a subscription just as you did."
I really would rather see names which fit the setting, but I cannot justify from my opinion saying that the hypothetical argument above doesn't hold any water.
@ Waruko: You wouldn't get to kill Drizz't over and over. There would be a line for that. It'd be like a roller coaster; two hours standing about waiting, then thirty seconds of fun and someone would try to sell you a screen-cap of you killing Drizz't afterwards.
And since it's not obvious in text, that's tongue-in-cheek.
Ahem, as for the original topic...
I would guess a fair number of the folks reading this are going to be some of the influential early adopters. If that's the case, regardless of what the dev's ultimately decide, can we agree to an informal agreement to encourage names in the spirit of the setting? No harassment, no griefing, but positive encouragement? The initial attitude of a game's community can quickly permeate the whole group.
/kicks some dirt while making a exasperated sigh
Fine, but the first Thug4lifeyo I see gets a dirk between his eyes. The town guards be damned.
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Goblin Squad Member
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/kicks some dirt while making a exasperated sigh
Fine, but the first Thug4lifeyo I see gets a dirk between his eyes. The town guards be damned.
My weaponsmith would happily replace all dirks used for said purpose, free of charge. And my Paladin would look for a loophole in the law to ensure that you wouldn't be punished.
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Goblinworks Executive Founder
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My weaponsmith would happily replace all dirks used for said purpose, free of charge. And my Paladin would look for a loophole in the law to ensure that you wouldn't be punished./kicks some dirt while making a exasperated sigh
Fine, but the first Thug4lifeyo I see gets a dirk between his eyes. The town guards be damned.
So what you both are saying is I should make Thug4LifeYo, then corner the dirk market?
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Goblin Squad Member
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So what you both are saying is I should make Thug4LifeYo, then corner the dirk market?My weaponsmith would happily replace all dirks used for said purpose, free of charge. And my Paladin would look for a loophole in the law to ensure that you wouldn't be punished./kicks some dirt while making a exasperated sigh
Fine, but the first Thug4lifeyo I see gets a dirk between his eyes. The town guards be damned.
My paladin *would* however take an exception to that :P
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Goblin Squad Member
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HUZZAH! *And justice prevailed in the River Kingdoms!*My weaponsmith would happily replace all dirks used for said purpose, free of charge. And my Paladin would look for a loophole in the law to ensure that you wouldn't be punished./kicks some dirt while making a exasperated sigh
Fine, but the first Thug4lifeyo I see gets a dirk between his eyes. The town guards be damned.
@Doc There are lots of pointed objects in the world and some not so pointed.
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Goblinworks Executive Founder
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@ Wakuro & Alex: That's perfect, then! Thug4LifeYo will happily accept all objects you stab or smash him with and then corner the entire arms trade. Arrows, hatchets, maces, nunchuku, scimitars, you can use whatever you like.
My alt-handle, Driz'zle-Fo'-Realz, will let you kill him for a nominal price and I'll even email you the screenshot.
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Goblinworks Executive Founder
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Driz'zle-Fo'-RealzI can't believe you forewent Driz'zle-Fo'-Shiz'zle... I don't know whether to be impressed, or disappointed :)
It does not matter which, so long as your desire to stab said character in the face is increased and thus I can expect a constant source of revenue.
But hey, I'm not proud. Driz'zle-fo-Shiz'zle the CG Drow-bizzle ranger with two Scim'sizzles it is.
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Goblin Squad Member
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It does not matter which, so long as your desire to stab said character in the face is increased...
It would be difficult to increase my desire to stab such characters in the face, considering that desire is already at 11.
I have no patience at all for names like "Excaliburger" (just saw that one in Ryzom the other day).
I have very little patience for names like "Inflicta Lottapayne" either, but if it's well enough disguised, I can ignore it.
Which reminds me...
One way to solve this problem is with very heavy instancing, and making it possible to never again encounter a character you've ignored. I'm not suggesting this will be possible in PFO, or any other single-server, persistent world. In cases like these, that cure would be worse than the disease.
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Goblin Squad Member
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One way to solve this problem is with very heavy instancing,
Suddenly, I feel like I'm playing SWTOR again. You know, the game where you go to Coruscant, capitol of the *GALAXY*, and see about 10 other people? But that is because they've got like 5 instances running? Yeah....the less instances are in PFO, the better.
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Goblin Squad Member
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So you're okay with naming your guy Darth Vader and joining a chartered company named Da_E-LEET_Crew?
The more relevant question is whether GW should be telling him he's not allowed to do that in their game. Obviously they can if that's what they want their game to be like, but I really don't see a very strong argument for should. And I really don't care if it distracts you tremendously from your berry sniffing, or RP'ing.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I am still a fan of "Forced Anonymity"...no one has a name over their heads unless you put it there. How do you put it there? Ask them their name and they tell you...then you enter it into an index card stored and linked to the character ID on your client.
At the least please allow us to "rename" other characters (even to the point of removing a name) and having it override their nameplate...that takes care of the whole problem.
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Goblinworks Executive Founder
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I am still a fan of "Forced Anonymity"...no one has a name over their heads unless you put it there. How do you put it there? Ask them their name and they tell you...then you enter it into an index card stored and linked to the character ID on your client.
At the least please allow us to "rename" other characters (even to the point of removing a name) and having it override their nameplate...that takes care of the whole problem.
Hopefully folks will take a look at some of the issues raised in that discussion, as well as try to keep this one less vitriolic.
Such a system raises a couple of ideas which certainly intrigue me. A character could have a reputation or fame score tracked by the game, and a skill of some sort can be checked to see if the character can be identified (the table-top equivalent would be like a Knowledge: Whatever's Most Appropriate roll to identify a particular NPC). A disguise skill could then be used to offset the odds of being recognized if the character does note wish to be. This could certainly be of use to infamous scoundrels and those wishing to avoid a contract that is on their heads.
The fame bit is hardly a new thought, as it showed up in the past discussion, though adding a disguise did not.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I'd prefer naming conventions be spelled out clearly, rather than relying on moderators to make judgement calls. Being a mod is a hard enough task; figuring what names are actually epithets in foreign languages should be outside the job description.
I'd go even further, and risk losing my Urman name from other games: I'd be fine with a robust name generator that takes into account the character's race, sex, national origins, etc., to generate legal names.
A less than robust name generator isn't useful though. In some games I've gone for the random name, one comes up, I say "ok", and the game says "that name is already in use". Um, thanks for figuring that out... After getting this result a half dozen times, the average player might make up a name that expresses their frustration with the name generation process.
A better name generator would give me 5 possible names, all legal and not in use. I then could flag any of them as possible keepers, and reroll the others. Eventually, I pick a name that fits the character I want.
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Goblin Squad Member
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So you're okay with naming your guy Darth Vader and joining a chartered company named Da_E-LEET_Crew?The more relevant question is whether GW should be telling him he's not allowed to do that in their game. Obviously they can if that's what they want their game to be like, but I really don't see a very strong argument for should. And I really don't care if it distracts you tremendously from your berry sniffing, or RP'ing.
Wow, speaking of Vader LOL
anger leads to hate...
I've definitely touched a nerve here, hey knock yourself out with Darth Tony if we can force anonymous as Forencith suggests
LOL, all kidding aside, the naming conventions should be as the setting you are in
although i am loving the last three posts, ideas are what we need
i love disguise in a sandbox, especially if the avatar can change according to your disguise skill, and your name with it