My turn at DMing is coming to a close with a Pathfinder game where I ran my players through the 3.5 campaign/module The Red Hand of Doom. On of my current players is going to be DMing and I will get a chance at playing again. I am more excited about it this time than any other time as this time I will get to play with my son (10yrs old)! The setting is going to be in a post apocalyptic Golarion where our players will be in the world minority as some of the surviving "good guys" as the party cohession mechanic. We are going to start out in the sanctuary city of Promise Island and embark out on our epic journey to find surviving civilizations that have yet to be overrun by the horde that changed the world forever.
The character creation rules that I know of will include 20 point buy, 900gp starting cash and a quick advancement to 2nd level. The first "adventure" is really going to be more of a prequel story telling type adventure that explains how we got to where we are. By the completion of the first "adventure" prequel thingy we will advance to 2nd level and be granted somewhere in the neighborhood of 2000gp more plus the ability to load up on permanencied spells, minor magic items (likely not of our specific choice yet still befitting to our character) and whatever mundane gear we can carry or think we need. The rationale behind this is that we will be leaving a city that includes powerful casters who are entrusting our party on an expedition and they want to give us the best chance to survive as possible while not sacrificing a lot of irreplaceable magical gear.
This is what I know that the other players will be playing:
An elven Arcane Archer with an emphasis on the martial side (played by my son)
A human female witch with voodoo influences and a hyena familiar
either a Human Gunslinger or a Human Bombadier Alchemist
...and whatever I decide to play.
I think we need a tank so I'm likely going to play one of the following:
2. A Dr. Jekyl/Mr. Hyde/Hulk type 1/2 orc Alchemist/Master Chymist likely with a level of Barbarian.
3. An Elven Swashbuckler (likely with some relation to my son's character).
All could be potentially tanky but with the dorf I get 2 tanks for the price of 1. Plus, I think the party is going to need some help with healing as the witch isn't planning on being a primary healer.
I had considered other builds as well though I do not think they will be as suitable for this party. Other characters aren't out of the question but for this thread I'd rather focus on the four above, particularly the Dwarven Saurian Shaman especially because I never really got much feedback on my original thread.
So with those things in mind does anyone have any advice? What I was going for with the Dwarf was a heavy tank character with a heavy tank mount. I definately want to go with the Saurian Shaman as I really like the feel and RP opportunities that it presents. I do want to wear heavy armor and the fastest way to get that is to dip a level into a class that gets heavy armor proficiency for free. Fighter is the obvious choice but the Armored Hulk Barbarian Archetype would be nice too.
I wasn't originally focused on wild shape for it's combat mechanics but if I can get wild armor by the time I start shifting into some fierce dinos then it isn't a bad option. This will definately preclude his mounted style though, but that shouldn't matter much as his companion is still a very viable tank on it's own (especially with armor proficiencies, barding and the toughness feat). I would likely consider shifting into a dino with 1 strong attack and a high AC. Another ankylosaurus definately isn't a bad choice when he is able to. A dino wearing stone plate is definately appealing. :)
I actually really like the Totem Transformation ability that the class gets. The problem is that it doesn't stack with polymorph effects like wild shape. That means that I would only really be using Totem Transformation when I'm not wild shaped. I guess it is a good backup option for combat, or that I could use it when I want to be able to do things that require me to be in my normal form (like casting spells, etc).
Another thought that I had was about the totemic summons ability. There aren't a lot of dinosaurs or reptiles on the lower level summon nature's ally list. There are a few reptiles but that consists of mostly snakes. First level only includes the viper, 2nd is only the venemous snake, 3rd gets interesting with the constrictor and crocodile and monitor lizard, 4th I get the Deinonychus and Pteranodon, 5th gets the Ankylosaurus for some more buddies, and it continues to get tastier after that. It looks like mid to late level is where this class ability really starts to shine. At this point it might become appealing to get augment summoning. Of course with the ability to apply the young, advanced and giant template to these critters the cast of summons greatly increases. I didn't particularly want to focus on summoning but with these being naturally tougher already, increasing their toughness further with augment summoning definately seems appealing. It would make for some pretty tanky summons.
The wildshape change is also a bit confusing, IMO. I will quote it here to explain why:
At 6th level, a saurian shaman’s wild shape ability functions at her druid level –2. If she takes on the form of a reptile or a dinosaur, she instead uses her druid level +2.
Now if we look at the wording of the normal druid's wild shape we get:
At 4th level, a druid gains the ability to turn herself into any small or Medium animal and back again once per day. Her options for new forms include all creatures with the animal type. This ability functions like the beast shape I spell, except as noted here. The effect lasts for 1 hour per druid level, or until she changes back. Changing form (to animal or back) is a standard action and doesn’t provoke an attack of opportunity. The form chosen must be that of an animal the druid is familiar with.A druid loses her ability to speak while in animal form because she is limited to the sounds that a normal, untrained animal can make, but she can communicate normally with other animals of the same general grouping as her new form. (The normal sound a wild parrot makes is a squawk, so changing to this form does not permit speech.)
A druid can use this ability an additional time per day at 6th level and every two levels thereafter, for a total of eight times at 18th level. At 20th level, a druid can use wild shape at will. As a druid gains in levels, this ability allows the druid to take on the form of larger and smaller animals, elementals, and plants. Each form expends one daily usage of this ability, regardless of the form taken.
At 6th level, a druid can use wild shape to change into a Large or Tiny animal or a Small elemental. When taking the form of an animal, a druid’s wild shape now functions as beast shape II. When taking the form of an elemental, the druid’s wild shape functions as elemental body I.
At 8th level, a druid can use wild shape to change into a Huge or Diminutive animal, a Medium elemental, or a Small or Medium plant creature. When taking the form of animals, [/b]a druid’s wild shape now functions as beast shape III[/b]. When taking the form of an elemental, the druid’s wild shape now functions as elemental body II. When taking the form of a plant creature, the druid’s wild shape functions as plant shape I.
At 10th level, a druid can use wild shape to change into a Large elemental or a Large plant creature. When taking the form of an elemental, the druid’s wild shape now functions as elemental body III. When taking the form of a plant, the druid’s wild shape now functions as plant shape II.
At 12th level, a druid can use wild shape to change into a Huge elemental or a Huge plant creature. When taking the form of an elemental, the druid’s wild shape now functions as elemental body IV. When taking the form of a plant, the druid’s wild shape now functions as plant shape III.
The bolded parts are what I'm wondering about. By my reading he would get each of these abilities 2 levels earlier when shaping into a dinosaur. Assuming that is correct then by 6th level Saurian Shaman he could be shaping into something Huge 3/day. Is that right? If so... *drool* I really want to play this character even more.
Any other ideas for this character? What about equipment? I'm thinking of going heavy wooden shield (although something that matches his armor may be more fitting) and warhammer. Druid vestments are a no brainer. An item that granted enlarge person would be nice so at 6th level he could improve his Allosaurus to the equivalent to a T-Rex. And a T-Rex wearing stone plate is just plain scarry. Likewise using animal growth on his companion would be scarry for the same reasons.
Anyway, start throwing ideas my way. I want to start building this character soon and your input will help. :)
Actually maybe that was a poor title choice. I think I have pretty much convinced myself that I am going to play the Dwarf. So yeah. That.
Have you considered a Synthesist Summoner. They make great tanks and have plenty of Out of combat mojo.
whatever it is give him a connection to your sons character, maybe have him be your sons little brother, just for kicks! Or they grew up as wards together. Just awesome you get to play with him.
So here are some more options Im considering:
Alternate racial traits:
Craftsman - it would be nice for him to make his own armor and this is definately a good means of doing so. Also, I doubt he would use the Greed racial trait that this replaces as much because he isn't as concerned about what other stuff is worth. This would be especially good later on if I pick up Craft Magic Arms and Equipment. I will need to ask my DM how much down time we will have to see if either would be feasable though.
Giant Hunter - it makes sense if he hails from a region where giant beasts are the norm. It would be better if he could get the same sort of trait but against animals of size large or larger. I might talk to my DM about allowing such a thing.
Magic Resistant - this is an interesting alternative to Hardy. I'm honestly not sure which is mechanically better. Opinions?
Favored Class alternatives:
Dwarves do not get any for druids. However, if I do settle on taking a level of barbarian getting the extra round of rage seems better than the extra HP or skill point.
Feats that I am considering:
Heavy Armor Proficiency - This is a must. I need to either get it by picking up a level in a class that has it automatically or I need to spend a feat on it.
Power Attack - I could pick it as a bonus feat from Saurian Shaman but it would be painful to wait that long to take it.
Vital Strike - I could pick it as a bonus feat from Saurian Shaman but it would be painful to wait that long to take it. This whole line of feats are great particularly when wild shaped into dinosaurs with one big natural attack. If I pick up that level of Armored Hulk then Furious Finish is an option as well.
Cornugan Smash - I could pump a bunch into intimidate and use this feat to get free demoralizations. It would even work while wild shaped. If I went this route then intimidating prowess would be a logical choice.
Toughness - I definately plan on taking this feat and the best time to take it is at first level.
Dodge - I didn't really plan on getting a Dex of more than 12, but if I do then picking up another point of AC is decent.
Endurance and Diehard - With the Deathless line of feats this is rather appealing. However with the defenses this charater will have I think it would be unlikely that they would kick in. And with a 3 feat invest ment to even get to the Deathless feats I don't see it as being worth it. However, it does open the door for Fast Healer and Drunken Brawler.
Extra Rage - If I do decide to take a level of Armored Hulk then I would likely pick up this feat at some point.
Ironhide - A straight 1 point bonus to AC. Hm... another reason the Deathless feats look interesting.
Lunge - When becoming large sized and larger having an even greater reach is awesome. At a cost of -2 to AC its a bargain especially considering that he would make up for that loss from the bonuses gained by wildshaping. Although without combat reflexes (and the Dex to make it worthwhile) it is less appealing.
Mounted Combat - Actually, this feat by itself isn't that good. His mount's AC is already going to be nigh-untouchable and it would be hard to roll high enough to get higher than his standing AC. However, it does open up the door to some other useful feats. In particular mounted shield. This will be less effective the less he is mounted, however which is something to consider if he will be wild shaped often.
Natural Spell - I know druids usually get it. But I honestly don't anticipate casting while wild shaped often. Still handy though.
Cleave
Furious Focus
Shaping Focus - not all that valuable if I only dip for one level. However, if I find some reason to dip for another level then it is good. Like 2 levels of fighter for the extra bonus feat for instance?
Shield Focus and Missle Shield - less effective while wild shaped. Shield focus is needed for Mounted Shield.
Spell Focus (Conjuration), Augment Summoning and Superior Summoning - with his class abilities that can bring a lot of tanky critters to the table at once.
Obviously that is a lot of feats and I can't take them all. I definately want to get Heavy Armor proficiency and the means by which I obtain it may change what other feats I get. Did I miss any good ones for this character concept? What do you think is best?
Dragonamedrake: I have been considering a Synthesist Summoner but not for this build or this game.
Obirandiath: I didn't list a Dwarven Cleric?...
Vuvu: If I chose the Elven Swashbuckler then I was going to have him have some relation to my son's character. That would have been the only one though.
Thank you for the suggestions though, everyone! Keep them comin! :)
Also, I remembered that the Wild enchantment works on shields as well. When reading it I found that it says you keep the bonuses but that the armor/shield doesn't show up on the critter you wildshape into. Screw that (for armor at least)! It would be cooler if it shows up. I'm sure my DM will allow it to show up because it is really just an asthetic change and it is full of awesomesauce. This also makes Shield Focus and Missle Shield more appealing as options as they could potentially continue while in wild shape.
Diabhol: I did have an idea for a Halfling Paladin/Sorcerer (Sylvan Blooded and Celestial blooded via Eldritch Heritage) gish type with a Roc as an animal companion but decided against it for this campaign.
The dwarf druid is surely what the party needs in terms of tanking and healing.
On the other hand, the Sun Wokong fighter might be a very good choice if your goal is for your son to shine and enjoy the game. Trip and AoO means the archer and gunslinger will do most of the damage even if you do the tactics and positioning. The druid on the other hand might be so powerful in your veteran hands so that he has problems shining.
If the case is that you are you the (only) veteran in a young group, then I would consider a char that lets the other shine rather than one that the 'optimal' choice for the party.
randomwalker: Thanx for the comment. As I plan on playing the character as mostly a tank I doubt I will be hitting the damage output of the other characters in the party except maybe the witch. All but my son are veterans and I am going to be helping him build his character effectively. Playing it effectively I hope to help him along in character as opposed to my previous out of character help I have been giving him as I DM. Plus, even giving him OOC help will be easier now that I don't have to worry about giving him insider suggestions on good courses of action.
The Wukong character would actually make it harder for the ranged characters to hit the foes that I tripped as tripped foes recieve a bonus to AC vs ranged attacks. Also, his damage potential would likely be much higher than the druid's. In fact, of the character builds I had posted above the druid is likely the lowest damage potential.
Druids are amazingly versatile, have excellent buffs so they can tank very effectively, and the added animal companion is just the icing on the cake. You're going to need a healer, and your conditions removers will be valuable.
And how tough is a dino-dwarf going to be? Sounds like a fun character to play!
You'll have at least 2 ranged allies, a de-buffer/battle field controller, and you. A gunslinger can be a decent back-up tank, too, so if he runs low on ammo, he can help you and your animal companion tank.
so you've got a party of
one who fires one or a few arrows per round
one who cackles and probably evil eyes once per round
one who fires most likely one bullet per round
and you who:
- might very well summon a few animals
- has a dinosaur companion
- might take "magic resistant" meaning an additional roll per spell
- wildshapes
- buffs/heals
if it's not clear what I want to say:
for the love of the big dinosaur in the sky, simplify your combat routine or you'll take twice as long as all the other combines.
Also you should discuss with your witch how she debuffs, evil eye is best against saves, but you've got no real caster so perhaps she could lower AC (the gunslinger won't be needing that though). She could of course use sleeping hex, but that makes everything too easy and misfortune tells your GM "you've got twice the number of rolls too make" and is in that regard even worse than magic resistant.
So if class discussion is still up, my vote would be for swashbuckler (out of your 4) or for paladin (if your group can stomach lawful stupid) or healing battle cleric. Something that can heal and has a very basic/fast melee routine.
Yeah, I know what you mean, Richard. As far as combat routine goes though I think it should be pretty simple for this character even though he has a lot of options at his disposal.
As far as healing goes I intend to do most of his healing magic out of combat. I understand that leaves the party without a combat healer but hopefully we can make up for that in offense, defense, battlefield control and tactical fighting.
As far as offensive casting goes I intend to do this very little with the exception of buffs. Preferably his buffs will be of the long lasting sort or done before combat starts at "the first sign of danger".
The dinosaur companion will likely act as a mount while not wild shaped most of the time. The only exception would be if we need to cover more area with tanks. Even then the only offensive casting that the character is likely to do often would be summoning thus negating the need to dismount. He can still wade into combat with his mount as they are both heavy tanks. This, I imagine would be his most typical routine unless the enemy is still closing in on the party in which case he may take another round to summon or buff. That is also what I would like to base my feats around most. Having the dino companion would likely only result in 1 more attack roll per round if.
Does that simplify it?