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While I visited home over the holidays I went into my large walk in closet filled with two decades of gaming material. I drew forth a special case that had two used but very near perfectly mint Tarokka decks. I took one back with me for use, so after years of laying in wait, I plan on setting these cards on the gaming table once again.
Now here's the question(s):
How would the Tarokka deck fit in with Golarion, a world that already has the fabled Harrow deck?
What history would you give the Tarokka for Golarion?
Are the two decks distinct sides of the same fortune seeing 'coin'? Do adherents of the Harrow disdain those who use the Tarokka?
Bonus question: How would you use the Tarokka deck in Carrion Crown, even as a Easter egg or a 'cameo'?
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Let me start this with a quick description that might be all the answer you need. On the largest wall of my office hang three displays, one massive black frame filled with a Tarot deck illustrated by Yoshitaka Amano, a set of six frames each holding a suit of Kyle Hunter's Harrow cards, and another matching black frame exhibiting a Forbidden Lore Tarokka deck.
I think this deck is the singular best roleplaying prop ever created, epitomizing the grim moodiness of the Ravenloft setting and the mysterious/interpretive vibe conjured by a real fortunetelling with imagery perfectly themed to the setting and suggestive of a deeper fantasy mythology. The detailed descriptions of each card in Forbidden Lore also prove a GM with everything he needs to put on an impressive performance for his players, from stacking the deck to get the results he desires to performing a cold reading that suits any sort of story he wants to tell. I've used this deck dozens of times and have had groups that seemed to legitimately respect and dread the cards' portents. For building mood, suspense, and mystery in a dark fantasy game, the Tarokka deck is a prop without peer.
With my gushing in mind, is it really any surprise that our second Adventure Path out the gate in a world we'd only begun to explore featured our own similar fortunetelling deck? Without question the Harrow deck would not exist if it weren't for the Tarokka deck. I advocated hard for this and we had the tools to make it happen. Kyle Hunter - mad genius that he is - bears most of the creative responsibility, being equal parts artist, gamer, and lunatic visionary. With little more description than "It's a 54-card deck. Go!" he came up with exactly what we wanted, a fortunetelling deck that seemed steeped in the folklore of a fantasy culture, and that would allow for similar fortunetelling scenes as the Tarokka deck does - though with a distinctly lighter and less ominous style. A game got added on to the needs of the AP after the initial concepting because some parties wanted to roll the dice and see if we could make this a fun, stand-alone game too (hence the less than mood inspiring card backs) - but what creative endeavor doesn't involve compromise.
So that's the back story on that. Now for the actual questions.
My first inclination would be to simply replace the Harrow with the Tarokka, but that's kind of like saying replace Varisians with Vistani (interestingly similar names there, huh?). Varisians are generally less grim and enigmatic than the Vistani are, though, a cultural truth evident in the artistry and elements of their distinctive fortunetelling cards. So, if you wanted to include both, I'd suggest finding a region where Varisian culture might have reason to be more like the Vistani, like - oh, I don't know - Ustalav. There's an interesting element to Ustalavic Varisians, though: most of them are settled. Not all, though. Rule of Fear mentions traveling bands of Varisians and Sczarni, but doesn't go into much detail about how they differ from those in Varisa (if at all, and if these groups do or do not travel between the countries - I'd say some do, and some don't). For the gypsies that wander Ustalav itself, I could seem them having a distinctive, regional variation on their people's Harrow deck, a tool that allows them better insight into the grim natures and somber fates of Ustalav's residents, a way to tap into the enigmatic powers that ever linger just at the edge of vision and in swirls of chilling mist. Perhaps this tradition even has an ominous history, with tales telling of its origins in a realm of terrors that could not, and should not be, but yet still somehow was.
In short, in the same way diverse forms of oracular cards, playing cards, and tarot cards have similar origins yet varied modern incarnations, there's no reason the same can't have happened with the Harrow deck in Golarion (in fact, as Golarion's cultures are so much older than Earth's, with even more varied cultural influences, there's actually even greater reasons for why this would have happened)
I think that covers my thoughts on how I would handle fitting Tarokka decks into Golarion and generalize the history. I LOVE the idea of Harrow readers shunning the Tarokka, maybe fearing it as the dark side of their more neutral fortunetelling method, suggesting its use predisposes the subject to grim fates and the user to presaging only sorrows. This might be cultural or professional prejudice that gives one deck a darker reputation, but if that reenforces the Tarokka deck's ominous aspects, all the better. Or, the Harrow readers might be right - they know what fates guide their prophecies, but who in Golarion knows what powers shuffle the cards of a Tarokka deck.
At the same time, if that's too heavy handed, I think it'd be just fine to go the similar but different route, having both being equally viable. It'd be similar to the difference some people see in the distinction between playing cards and Tarot cards in the real world: one is totally safe, the other... has a reputation.
As for interjecting the Tarokka deck in Carrion Crown, I think the easiest way to do it would be to replace the Harrow with it where it comes up - which isn't often. Gypsies don't play a huge role in the AP, which is just kind of how things worked out. Broken Moon has the only exception I can think of, and with cards like The Torturer, The Beast, and the Ghost in the Tarokka deck, I think that deck could be used to present not just a more thematic fortunetelling experience, but actually be more pertinent to the adventure than the Harrow deck.
So! That's my two cents! Sorry it took me a bit to notice this, but hopefully this helps. Hope you have a great time with Carrion Crown and totally treat that Tarokka deck nice, it's a real treasure!
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Let me start this with a quick description that might be all the answer you need. On the largest wall of my office hang three displays, one massive black frame filled with a Tarot deck illustrated by Yoshitaka Amano, a set of six frames each holding a suit of Kyle Hunter's Harrow cards, and another matching black frame exhibiting a Forbidden Lore Tarokka deck.
Erik Mona's description of these very items (and your love and care for the same) are part of the reason I came to you with this query Wes.
:)
Thank you very much for your insights, I am reading them now.
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I think this deck is the singular best roleplaying prop ever created, epitomizing the grim moodiness of the Ravenloft setting and the mysterious/interpretive vibe conjured by a real fortunetelling with imagery perfectly themed to the setting and suggestive of a deeper fantasy mythology. The detailed descriptions of each card in Forbidden Lore also prove a GM with everything he needs to put on an impressive performance for his players, from stacking the deck to get the results he desires to performing a cold reading that suits any sort of story he wants to tell. I've used this deck dozens of times and have had groups that seemed to legitimately respect and dread the cards' portents. For building mood, suspense, and mystery in a dark fantasy game, the Tarokka deck is a prop without peer.
In this sir, I have to agree with you fully.
I LOVE the idea of Harrow readers shunning the Tarokka, maybe fearing it as the dark side of their more neutral fortunetelling method, suggesting its use predisposes the subject to grim fates and the user to presaging only sorrows. This might be cultural or professional prejudice that gives one deck a darker reputation, but if that reenforces the Tarokka deck's ominous aspects, all the better. Or, the Harrow readers might be right - they know what fates guide their prophecies, but who in Golarion knows what powers shuffle the cards of a Tarokka deck.
At the same time, if that's too heavy handed, I think it'd be just fine to go the similar but different route, having both being equally viable. It'd be similar to the difference some people see in the distinction between playing cards and Tarot cards in the real world: one is totally safe, the other... has a reputation.
Thank you sir. I was thinking along these exact lines myself, I am very happy that your masterful hand in campaign guidance point to a similar solution. I very much like the idea that even among the Varisians there are those who would consider 'the other deck' taboo. I LOVE how you even manage to pay homage to the Dark Powers when you say 'who shuffles the Tarokka?' - that's brilliant Wes! You even got to mention The Mists. I am swiping that along with your 'cry in the face of demanding players stratagem'.
;)
I love your style and wit, as well as the answers above, indeed not only do they not break but rather further the verisimilitude for the entire Carrion Crown arc.
As always thank for your time in answering the thread. May the Dark Powers smile on you.
Erik Mona's description of these very items (and your love and care for the same) are part of the reason I came to you with this query Wes.
Ha! When, where, and how'd you get Erik on the topic of my decor? :P
But you flatter me. Just glad to help! Have a blast!
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When, where, and how'd you get Erik on the topic of my decor? :P
It was most likely at Gen Con (like 90 percent certain) but it may have been at the book expo in Manhattan, I'm sure Tim Hitchcock was in the general area though. I think we were talking about the art of the Harrow Deck and how the deck could be utilized more as a gaming tool. And that I very much missed using the Tarokka and was wondering how it be used in play for Carrion Crown (I don't think I had seen the players guide by then so that's why I'm wondering if it was at the book expo because I would have read the guide by the time of Gen Con).
There may have been liquor involved.
:)
Ask Tim in person what he's least favorite old school TSR mod is.
Ask Tim in person what he's least favorite old school TSR mod is.
A carton of smokes and a Big Gulp mug full of Glenlivet is not a TSR mod.
Oh, you said least.
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Most of my players are familiar with the Harrow, but only a few know of the Tarokka deck. I'm using bits of Tales of the Old Margreve to connect ToTB with Broken Moon and one of the bits is the Challenge of the Fang. Several of my players asked for a reading from Mother Baboushka and I didn't want to use a standard Harrow deck. I can't wait to see the looks on their faces when I break out the Tarokka to cast their readings.
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Awesome Blayde!
Thanks, baron!
The fortune casting went over really well with my group! Everybody was not only shocked when the Tarokka was brought out, but with the formation I used as well (I went with the Tower). All of them wanted a reading. And the explanation as to why the deck wasn't a standard Harrow was well received by the players.
Thanks again, Wes! I think this has been the highlight of the campaign (thus far, at least).
The fortune casting went over really well with my group!
Nice!
(I went with the Tower).
NICE!
And the explanation as to why the deck wasn't a standard Harrow was well received by the players.
NICE!
Thanks again, Wes! I think this has been the highlight of the campaign (thus far, at least).
Pffh, sounds like this was all you, man, and that your group is having a blast. Great, great job!