Laurefindel's 3.75 consolidated houserules

[Laurefindel]

Forword

For as long as I can remember DMing, I always had my set of houserules. If there is one thing I always enjoyed about D&D, it was its ability to be tweaked, altered and expended upon.

When D&D 4th edition was announced, I must admit I was both thrilled and curious. From what I could read, it was addressing most aspects of the game I was considering problematic. However, 4th edition took a direction that didn’t satisfy my expectations. That’s when I became aware of Pathfinder RPG, early in its alpha testing development stage.

From then on, I developed my own 3.75 edition in parallel to Paizo’s. I’ve been through a few versions and revision over these few years and although it isn’t perfect nor finished, I decided to post it all here for anyone to see, share, steal or simply criticize in the hope that your comments will help me move forward.

[edit] Please note that these rules almost form a system of its own, thus many of these rules are not directly with Pathfinder RPG as written. As I mentioned however, some of these ideas may be easily transferred to Pathfinder, some are directly portable as they are.
Good reading

‘findel

[Laurefindel]

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Overview of the fundamental changes:

There are only two base progressions which are used for BAB, saving throws, skills, magical attacks etc: good and poor (no medium). The good and poor progressions follow the same algorithm as 3rd edition’s saves (1/2 level +2 and 1/3 level respectively).

Spellcasters benefit from a Magical Attack bonus which is used for ranged and touch spells and replaces some caster level checks (dispel magic for example).

Spell lists are divorced from their respective spellcasting classes. In this system, the class define the approach to magic, while the tradition defines the style and spells list. For example, the mage is a spellcaster class with an academic approach to magic, categorizing spell in eight schools of magic in which he can specialize. Wizardry is a spellcasting tradition in which spells are inscribed in a spellbook and prepared ahead of time to save time on the battlefield. Spontaneous casting is otherwise the default type of magic in this system (including clerics and druids).

Every class grant levels in an existing spellcasting tradition, but only spellcasting classes grant training in a spellcasting tradition (and therefore the ability to cast spells). Like the wizard who contributes to a character’s BAB, the fighter contributes to a character’s spellcasting, only just not as much.

Each class is built on a 15-level template. The system expects and encourages multiclassed characters but only up to a total of three classes, including prestige classes.

Skills are grouped in categories. Each skill category receives a base bonus (either good or poor progression) while ranks in particular skills are considered specialties. One is considered an expert at 5 ranks (skill can be used to synergize with another) and mastered at 10 ranks (may always take 10, even when rushed or threatened). A skill costs double to develop past 5 ranks and caps at 10 ranks.

The full attack action and iterative attacks are gone. Characters have 1 attack per round, which can be increased with feats like two-weapon fighting, cleave and the like. Some feats and class features allow a re-test on a failed attack roll, or grant additional attacks.

Saving throws are used in more types of defenses, such as resisting being tripped, disarmed, pushed over, fooled, lose concentration on a spell etc. In many such occasions, a character can use a skill bonus instead of a save bonus on a saving throw if advantageous. for example, Escape Artist may be selected instead of Fort save to resist being grappled.

The system encourages movement and maneuvers on the battlefield by eliminating the full-attack option and attacks of opportunity for initiating combat maneuvers.

A variant of health/vitality points ensures that combat remains dangerous even against weak opponents, and imposes respect for powerful creatures who could drop a PC in one blow should they score a critical hit. On the flip side, spirit points rejuvenate rapidly and reliably without magical assistance, somewhat reducing the 15 minutes-day syndrome.

Stat-boosting spells, items and abilities have been removed from the game. Some of these still exist, granting relatively marginal benefits to their recipients. Consequently, poisons, diseases and de-buff spells cause strait penalties instead.

Spell Resistance is expressed in percentage rolled by the defender. SR comes in two sets, major (50%) and minor (20%). The Spell Penetration feat allows magic user to bypass minor penetration and lessen major SR to minor (50% down to 20%). The Greater Spell Penetration allows the spell user to ignore both major and minor Spell Resistance.

Any situation multiplying damage (including confirmed critical hits) multiplies the number of thrown dice only; extra damage from Strength, magical enhancement, precision damage etc is not multiplied. As before, two doubling equals a tripling, doubling a triple equals quadrupling etc.

Helmets provide protection against critical hits. Open face helmets provide a 20% miss chance on any threats, while closed helms provide a 50% miss chance of treats and critical hits. If the threat is negated this way, the defender still receives damage but is not vulnerable to the attack. The threat thus negated means that would-have-been critical damage is not multiplied. Fortification on armor only come in 20% and 50% but stack with helmets.

Feats have been revisited to harmonize many of the changes mentioned above.

[Laurefindel]

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External Links to Documents

Classes and Spellcasting Traditions
Skills
Feats
Combat
Hit Points Variant: Health and Spirit
Equipment
Action Points
Conditions
Other Rules

[Dragonsong]

dotted for reference.

As I like where you want to go in a lot of the threads I have seen you in.

[Kirth Gersen]

Ooh! Can't WAIT to look at this stuff!
Dot dot dot dot dot dot dot

[TriOmegaZero]

Dotted.

[Pedantic]

Just FYI, your Equipment link appears to be protected. You might want to change the permissions if you intend it to be for public consumption.

[Gravefiller613]

I'll give it a spin.

[Mok]

How are monsters handled? In my time tinkering with the rules I've found that the true heart of the system is actually the Bestiary of monsters and how it is designed to challenge the players.

[Laurefindel]

Mok wrote:

How are monsters handled? In my time tinkering with the rules I've found that the true heart of the system is actually the Bestiary of monsters and how it is designed to challenge the players.

That is absolutely true!

I've found that there are two way of handling monsters, and neither is ideal. Remember that this is more of a system re-write than a series of portable houserules to an existing system like pathfinder.

The first is to convert the monster: rebuilding each entry in accordance to my rules. This isn't as difficult as it sounds as many things are unaffected (hp, saves, damages etc), but the compilation of each and every converted monster is a colossal task.

As it stands, I've converted most of the summon monster/nature ally entries, most animals, everything that stands on my random encounter chart and 6 'versions' of orcs, goblins, human brigands, barbarians and other humanoids that are likely to come-up.

(these versions include a 1st level default version, a 2nd level elite, a chieftain/captain, a caster etc...)

The second option is to use the pathfinder entries as-is and thrust that they are close enough. This particularly true around 7 or 8 HD. The main changes are about BAB and skills. Some feats become either un-optimal or invalid (they exist in Pathfinder but not in my system).

I Guess I should post these as well...

'findel

[Laurefindel]

Spenser Lee wrote:

Just FYI, your Equipment link appears to be protected. You might want to change the permissions if you intend it to be for public consumption.

Weird, and the document it references to is blank... Will fix that tonight.

[Seldriss]

Dot to check this after work.
This should be interesting, as I often appreciate your posts, Laurefindel...

[Darksmokepuncher]

Dot

[Kryzbyn]

You had me at "magical attack bonus"

Dot.

[Laurefindel]

Armors and Weapons are up in Equipment (seem to have lost Alchemical and Magic items when my laptop was stolen)

Apart from some rationalization, no revolutionary changes in that department.

Medium armors do no drop movement rate but prevent running. Heavy armors prevent running and -10 feet to speed.

Many armors can be "upgraded" with the addition of metal greaves

Helmets provide protection vs critical hits similar to fortified armors

Only light shields may be used as weapons. Heavy shields may be used to provide cover.

Crossbows have their own Strength rating, but base dice is smaller

Crossbows:

In D&D, especially the 3rd edition era, the smaller a weapon is, the less damage it deals. The prods of a crossbows being smaller than the arms of of a bow, logic stated that the damage dice should be revised lower. Assuming that a heavy crossbow is about the diameter of a shortbow, the heavy crossbow should deal a d6 (and by consequence a d4 for light crossbow).

But unlike a bow whereas the pull of a bow can be set in proportion to the archer's strength, the crossbow is purely a mechanical device using levers and pulleys to multiply the strength of its user. As such, it made sense for me to give the crossbow a Strength bonus of its own.

Although I haven't gone that far, That Strength bonus could be set in proportion to the cranking device AND/OR the time and type of action required to reload a crossbow could be in proportion of the strength of its user. Stuff to explore...

Added a section for oriental weapons. Whether they are exotic or not should be based on background...

Also, too bad I don't have my docs about magic item, as there was an interesting (or so I thought) section on wands, staves and rods.

With the disappearance of stat-boosting spells and items, pumping the DC of a spell is done via implements (concept shamelessly stolen from 4e).

In addition to increase of DC, the enhancement bonus of a staff is use for attack and damage, and that of a wand on ranged attack rolls (rods where either a short staff or a thick wand, difference purely cosmetic). Like weapons have their properties (like flaming or vorpal), staves and wands had their own set of magical properties (including some of the benefits usually granted by rods). So yeah, a wizard's staff could get mighty pimped-up but then again, its their toy.
'findel

[Kirth Gersen]

Just downloaded all the docs, and can't wait to read them!

Looking at skills first, it's not totally clear to me how acquisition works, as there's a progression listed, but then you also talk about skill points. Does a PC automatically get the progressions listed for all skills by category, and then get discretionary points with which to improve sub-skills beyond that? And do x-class skills cost double, like in 3.5? And have you done writeups for the skills?

[Laurefindel]

Kirth Gersen wrote:

Just downloaded all the docs, and can't wait to read them!

Looking at skills first, it's not totally clear to me how acquisition works, as there's a progression listed, but then you also talk about skill points. Does a PC automatically get the progressions listed for all skills by category, and then get discretionary points with which to improve sub-skills beyond that? And do x-class skills cost double, like in 3.5? And have you done writeups for the skills?

A lot of things need to be clarified - or as I noticed when I uploaded these documents - to be mentioned in the first place. It is worth mentioning that most of my rules are based on the WotC 3.5 model as opposed to Paizo's.

As for how skill are calculated:

The idea is that the base bonus is automatic in each skill categories. Some progress better/faster than others, depending on good or bad progression. Add the corresponding ability modifier (or attribute modifier; you're right, that terms define the 'stat' much better given the abundance of 'abilities' in D&D/PF) and armor check penalties (if applicable) to form the basis of what your character can do without any investment in skill yet.

In addition to that, each character get 4+int modifier skill points (rogues get another 2 on top of those) at each level to invest in individual skills. As in 3.5, cross class skills cost you double (2 skill points for 1 rank). Unlike 3.5, there is no x4 skill points at first level, and you can invest a max of 1 rank per level (regardless if you paid 1 skill point for a class skill or 2 points for a cross-class skill). Add any racial/miscellaneous bonus and you get your skill bonus for that skill.

Together, the skill bonus and its corresponding skill category bonus form the skill modifier, which is added to the d20 roll to determine success or failure. Base DC is increased to 20. If I can manage to up-load get my character sheet without major distortion, things would get much clearer. I guess I could simply e-mail it...

After a while, skills get harder to master; you lose your class-skill status after 5 ranks regardless of your class or level. That 5 ranks however allows you to 'aid another for a +2 bonus' on yourself, as long as you can motivate the synergy.

All skills cap at 10 ranks, at which point you are considered a master and can always take 10 regardless of the situation.

IMO, an adventurer should have a well-rounded amount of knowledge and abilities. This allows characters to have a more rounded-up collection of know-how and abilities, without sacrificing the player's desire to specialize their character in a particular niche of knowledge or abilities.

[Laurefindel]

Kirth Gersen wrote:

And have you done writeups for the skills?

I have, but I'm unable to find the current version at the moment. Same goes for feats. I may (most likely will) have to tweak some things before posting it. Looks like I lost a lot more than I thought with that stolen laptop :(

[edit] lost my prestige classes too... I'm missing a back-up folder however, which I'm sure I have at work (my back-ups back-up resting place).

[Kirth Gersen]

Thanks for the responses. I like what you've done -- sort of the best of the Saga skills system without the glaringly annoying things in it -- and I especially like that you can "specialize" in sub-skills now.

Making Skill Mastery a function of # of ranks is beautiful -- better than merging it into Skill Focus (which is the route I initially took, but am now inclined to change).

There's a lot of good stuff here.

[Auxmaulous]

dot

I will have to check this out, some interesting ideas here.

[Laurefindel]

Write-ups for feats and skills are up.

Used the opportunity to change the format in skill description (a bit).

Skill description now read:

Skill (skill category)
Short text describing when you may want to use this skill
First use of the skill
Text describing specific use #1 of the skill, with appropriate mechanics.
Second use of the skill
Text describing specific use #2 of the skill, with appropriate mechanics.
Third use of the skill
Text describing specific use #3 of the skill, with appropriate mechanics.
and so forth

Feats list was updated and rationalized from the previous list, but their content is virtually identical.

'findel

[Vil-hatarn]

Dotted, some great ideas in here!

[Laurefindel]

Updated skills write-up. Mostly change in wording and minor tweaks.

'findel

[Kirth Gersen]

Laurefindel wrote:

Updated skills write-up. Mostly change in wording and minor tweaks.

Cool. Reviewing them is on my list of tasks for the week, once I get my homebrew necromancer where I want it.

[Laurefindel]

I'd appreciate feedback on this skill in particular. It was recently changed from a kind of “my spider sense is tingling!” type of skill (which didn't turn out to work in-game) to a “I have a bad feeling about this!” type of skill, and thus haven't seen much playtest yet.

While I like the idea in principle, I feel it requires fine-tuning, especially the Sense Danger part…

Sixth Sense:

SIXTH SENSE (Awareness Skill)
Use this skill to sense magic or danger about an item, place or situation.
Sense Danger (Maneuver): A successful check allows you to tell if all is safe or if ‘something’s wrong’ as a Maneuver action.
The base DC to sense danger is 20 but the higher the result, the more accurate your sensations are. The DM is encouraged to give vague impressions about the type of danger and when or how it may happen, increasing the clarity of his or her hints with the magnitude of the success. A failed check by 4 or less reveals no information, but a failure by 5 or more gives you a false sensation of security or a mistaken hunch about the source of danger. This check is made secretly so you do not know the result.
While this use of the skill does not replace a Perception check, Sixth Sense may warrant such a check or provide a +2 bonus on Perception checks made to detect a specific type of hazard.
Perceive Planar Disruption (Free Action): You can perceive traces of energy that does not belong to this place as a free action. With a successful DC 20 Sixth Sense check, you can detect portals, teleport effects and time-affecting spells within 30 feet of you.
Once a planar disruption is detected, it can be studied with a Planar Lore to learn the provenance or destination of the portal or teleport effect (see the Arcane Lore) skill.
Detect Unnatural Presence (Free Action): Sixth Sense can also be used to detect magically disguised undead and outsiders of 11 HD or more with a DC 20 skill check as a Free Action. For each HD below 11, add 1 to the DC of the Sixth Sense check.
A successful check allows you to detect an unnatural aura. Once an unnatural aura is detected, it can be studied with a Planar Lore check to determine the type and subtype of the creature as well as the relative strength of its aura (see the Detect Evil spell).
As with Insight checks made to detect a disguised creature, this use of the Sixth Sense skill require a certain proximity or interaction with the polymorphed creature to allow a skill check.
You get a +10 bonus on Sixth Sense check made to detect a magically disguised undead or outsider with the Unnatural Aura ability.
Detect Magic (Complex Action): A successful check allows you to feel lingering magic auras and detect magic in items or in places you touch as a Complex Action of 1 round that allows movement and provokes attacks of opportunity. A DC 25 check allows you to detect a faint aura of magic (see the detect magic spell) by touch. Moderate and strong auras have a DC of 20 and 15 respectively. Overwhelming auras are automatically detected.
Once a magical aura is detected, it can be studied with an Arcane Lore or Divine Lore check as if you had cast a detect magic spell.

[Laurefindel]

Updated feats and their write-up

Mostly changes in verbiage. Track is gone as a feat, subsided in Survival skill a la Pathfinder.

'findel

[Laurefindel]

Updated Combat section

- Minor adjustments on combat maneuvers
- Included Mounted Combat section

[MrURL]

I love the altered classes and the GMs in my group and I were looking at doing something similar with spellcasting (disassociating the tradition and the class). Looking over your docs, I do have a question. How unbalancing would it be to take away the "divine/arcane" tags on the traditions or what other restrictions would I need to put in place do you think? For example if I wanted to make a preacher type character (priest with the lyrical tradition), one who wants to study the healing arts (mage with the rune or clerical traditions), or a spiritist of sorts (animist, spiritist circle, hedge magic tradition).

Also, if the divine and arcane tags are removed, would multiclassing animist/sorcerer (giving you both a familiar and an animal companion) then both go toward your levels of say your "druidic tradition"?

[Laurefindel]

Well, hello mr URL! I thought this tread was buried deep...

At this point of rule-tinkering, I'd be tempted to say that removing the arcane/divine tags would have a very low impact on game balance.

Basically, a class is a handful of abilities and a few extra spells. At worst, you'd get a (traditionally) arcane spell list completed with a few (traditionally) arcane spells, or vice-versa. Since 3rd edition whereas cleric can get pretty "blasty" and arcane casters can cast healing spells, the tradition of strictly support cleric and strictly non-healing wizards has been broken anyways...

As a matter of fact, I long considered having a list of white magic spells (cleric), black magic spells (wizard) and faerie magic spells (druid). It also crossed my mind to make 5 distinct spell-lists (blue/green/red/black/white a la Magic; the Gathering) and have all spellcasting classes choose freely among the available traditions.

[edit] woah, a lot of work has been done since fall 2011.

'findel

[Helaman]

It seems that I've picked and hunted among your rules for my own house rules... lots of good stuff.

[Laurefindel]

Helaman wrote:

It seems that I've picked and hunted among your rules for my own house rules... lots of good stuff.

That's what they are for!

Let me know of your variations

'findel

[The Terrible Zodin]

I just had the idea of using saving throws for combat manuevers myself. How has that been working out for you?

[Laurefindel]

The Terrible Zodin wrote:

I just had the idea of using saving throws for combat manuevers myself. How has that been working out for you?

As a concept, it has been working wonderfully but...

Once you factor in all these houserules, the system is not quite the same. I honestly cannot tell how portable this "fix" can be in Pathfinder RPG and of what unforeseen complications it might have.

My houserules eventually lead to a rebuilt version of the d20 system, not unlike how Iron Heroes, Conan RPG and Fantasycraft were d20 spin-offs. So in my version of the rules, which is essentially a different game, it works superbly.

I've been using saving throws more prominently all around, so in the player's (and DM's) mind, saves easily come to mind as active defenses for most situations, so resisting combat manoeuvres with saving throws was a natural...

[Can'tFindthePath]

Laurefindel wrote:

The Terrible Zodin wrote:

I just had the idea of using saving throws for combat manuevers myself. How has that been working out for you?

As a concept, it has been working wonderfully but...

Once you factor in all these houserules, the system is not quite the same. I honestly cannot tell how portable this "fix" can be in Pathfinder RPG and of what unforeseen complications it might have.

My houserules eventually lead to a rebuilt version of the d20 system, not unlike how Iron Heroes, Conan RPG and Fantasycraft were d20 spin-offs. So in my version of the rules, which is essentially a different game, it works superbly.

I've been using saving throws more prominently all around, so in the player's (and DM's) mind, saves easily come to mind as active defenses for most situations, so resisting combat manoeuvres with saving throws was a natural...

I see that I'm very late to the party. Don't know how I missed this thread the first time around. 'Findel, I've always appreciated your insights on discussions of Kirth Gersen's rules. And, I've done similar tinkering on BAB and skills (though it's never come to fruition). I look forward to absorbing all the details.

Dot!

[Zorajit Zorajit]

Dotting for later review

[Can'tFindthePath]

Wow 'Findel! I generally like most all you've done. Some I think is reinventing the wheel, but as a hopeless re-inventor myself....I can't really fault that.

BUT- Does anyone live past 1st or 2nd level under the Health critical hit rules? I don't see how, with crits going straight to Health points and still being multiplied.

Please enlighten me. I want very much to use some form of "Vitality/Wounds" system, but I can't seem to find a way to make it survivable. What is your experience?

[Laurefindel]

For those who might be interested...

As mentioned above, these houserules eventually lead to a RPG of its own. lets call it "project Laurefindel" for the moment, as I need to make sure that the name I choose for it isn't already trademarked.

It is still a d20 system, but it has been streamlined significantly. If Pathfinder RPG is the OGL++, this is more like the OGL--. It aims to stand somewhere between True20 and the OGL in terms of options and complexity. So not a minimalist game, but less crunchy than 3e D&D/ Pathfinder.

There are some major re-visioned elements however, as the game works on a base 5 for most of its elements (5 martial classes, 5 casting classes, 5 stats, 5 saves, 5 skill categories of 5 skills each etc), but these changes are mostly aesthetic; the game plays similarly.

I mean to have the script ready for publication for next summer; probably just in time to be washed-down by D&D next... Nevertheless, I meant to complete it, if only for the sake of my own sanity :)

This is the result of years of playtesting but I wouldn't mind external inputs just the same. If anyone is interested, I could get a playtest package ready in time for Christmas. If you think you've got an eye for game mechanics (as I know some of you do), I do welcome impressions-on-reading.

PM me if you're interested in participating in Laurefindel RPG.

'findel

[Laurefindel]

Can'tFindthePath wrote:

BUT- Does anyone live past 1st or 2nd level under the Health critical hit rules? I don't see how, with crits going straight to Health points and still being multiplied.

3 points:

1) Health and Spirit points did go through some revision. The latest being less harsh than the posted document IIRC.

2) Typical adult characters start at level 2. 1st level characters are "apprentices", teenagers and otherwise not-yet mature characters. For some races with a short life expectancy (like orcs and goblins), that can represent the majority of their population.

3) Only the weapon dice is multiplied, not damage modifiers. Damage rolls are altogether lower than RaW on criticals. Also, power attack has been revisited.

But otherwise, yes. Combat is grittier on a voluntary base.

'findel