Another bard thread...with a twist!


Advice


A friend of mine is running a game for the first time in a while. He has a habit of running "difficult" games that are usually focused around one character as the "noble". I already know who he is choosing to be the center focus, and because of that I decided to make a character that would be able to lie, steal, cheat, and do lots of other stuff and manage to always get himself out of trouble.

Now the character is designed to be a "Work in progress" we're starting at level 1, and depending on how the noble acts, will depend on how he turns out. Using the Sandman build, I have him able to go Assassin or Harrower. So either murderous little jaded halfling, or happy go lucky fortune teller.

Ok, so on to the crunch. The campaign is level 1, all pathinder official material allowed, 28 pt buy.

Now I chose the following feats: childlike, go unnoticed, pass for human.

he has an alter ego type thing going to prevent trouble, and to make sure he's one step ahead of the noble. In combat, he hides and gets the hell out of there. Not all of the listed performances he'll get to with either build, but it's an idea of how he'll be built.

Build path:
Master of Deception (Bardic knowledge) or streetwise (w/o
rogue)
Gladhanding (countersong)
Expanded Repertoire or Sneakspell (Versatile Performance)
Wand Mastery (jack of all trades)
Quick Change or sneak attack (Lore Master)

Bardic Performance:
Stealspell (Inspire Courage)
Harmless Performer (Inspire competence)
Slumber Song (Suggestion)
Dramatic Subtext (Inspire greatness)
Greater Stealspell (Inspire heroics)
Mass Slumber Song (Mass suggestion)

Traits:
Successul Shirker: You gain a +1 trait bonus on Stealth checks
and a +3 trait bonus on Bluff and Diplomacy checks to avoid
punishment by lawful authority.

Vagabond Child (urban): You grew up among the outcasts
and outlaws of your society, learning to forage and survive
in an urban environment. Select one of the following
skills: Disable Device*, Escape Artist, or Sleight of Hand.
You gain a +1 trait bonus on that skill, and it is always a

Level 1 Feat: Child-like
Level 3 feat: Go unnoticed
Level 5 feat: Pass for human

Path:
Bard-> Harrower (level 6)
Bard-> shadowdancer -> Assassin

My only concern is that with Stealspell (since we'll need a one up against enemy spell casters, is that the save won't get high enough to matter unless I go straight bard, but the idea is not to support with bardic performance since I'll be stealth based.) The traits make him more effective in talking his way out of trouble. Keep in mind, he's more of a thorn in the side, not mouth of the party until they earn it sort of character.

Any suggestions?


Just a few quick things that caught my eye:

28 pts: Are you sure this is right? 28pts in PBS for Pathfinder is massive. That can greatly distort gameplay balance, e.g. opponents for appropriate CR being way too weak whilst using higher ones being way too powerful.

stealspell: While I am not 100% certain it's allowed, I would let you take the monster feat ability focus for the stealspell performance. That ups the DC by 2, basically equal to +4 bard levels or +4 enhancement to charisma on the DC. That might be a way to alleviate the multiclassing issues. However, I would advise you to think hard about multiclassing with a bard into classes that do not improve the class' abilities. Maybe just stay with it and choose appropriate feats and equipment instead of a prestige class?

figthting casters: You might want to consider the arcane duelist archetype. It is a very powerful class against casters since it gets specific feats for that and has magic to boost it. Furthermore, dispelling might be an option for you, especially if you take the trait that increases the caster level by 1 for one specific spell.


28 pts was right. That's how the DM wants it. I'm not too concerned about being "powerful". If you knew how this guy runs, we'll need every stat point we get.

Sidenote: We once played an Eberron game, that ended up with us all stuck in Ravenloft and despite all of our power, continually getting our asses kicked.

Anyways, Arcane Duelist had my eye, but I was thinking more of being able to fill in for the rogue (nobody ever makes rogues)and keep my stealth/disguise checks relatively high.

The original direction was a rogue with cutpurse archetype and improved steal who took things. Which is probably where this will end up, only using bard instead of rogue. But yes, I probably will end up taking ability focus.

That helps, thanks. Anymore?


Stats is giving me some trouble designing a balanced build.

STR: 7 DEX: 17 CON: 10 INT: 14 WIS: 10 CHA: 20

Is what I've got. I need the dex for AC and skill checks, also need int for pretty much the same, and Cha is pretty obvious why I'd need that. I know I also need con for HP, but I'm not sure how to allocate the points. I think this will work, but suggestions would be great.


Vistarius wrote:

Stats is giving me some trouble designing a balanced build.

STR: 7 DEX: 17 CON: 10 INT: 14 WIS: 10 CHA: 20

Even a halfling bard wouldn't dump Str. I'd dump Wis over Str (especially with halfling -- luck bonus, fear bonus, if you play with traits, I'd throw a trait into +1 will saves). Assuming you want to focus on casting and skills, I'd do something like. . .

Str 12 (5)
Dex 16 (5)
Con 12 (2)
Int 14 (5)
Wis 8 (-2)
Cha 19 (13)

With future ability points going in Cha.


That seems alot more balanced, thanks. I've never been good with balancing stats. I figured STR would be less important than noticing stuff, but I can see why it's important.

Successul Shirker: You gain a +1 trait bonus on Stealth checks
and a +3 trait bonus on Bluff and Diplomacy checks to avoid
punishment by lawful authority.

Vagabond Child (urban): You grew up among the outcasts
and outlaws of your society, learning to forage and survive
in an urban environment. Select one of the following
skills: Disable Device*, Escape Artist, or Sleight of Hand.
You gain a +1 trait bonus on that skill, and it is always a

Those are my traits. I wanted to take disable device to substitute as a rogue (since sandman gives you trapfinding) and the successful shirker defines what the character is best out. Getting into and out of trouble.


Quote:
I figured STR would be less important than noticing stuff, but I can see why it's important.

Eh, getting your perception to crazy levels is easy. Halflings already get keen senses. You can also get the eyes of the eagle (a cheap 2500gp) for a +5 bonus.

Having a non-negative strength is important even if archery is used. It's important to push up the damage of your bow. And bards can (and often do) end up in melee.

Vistarius wrote:
Those are my traits. I wanted to take disable device to substitute as a rogue (since sandman gives you trapfinding) and the successful shirker defines what the character is best out. Getting into and out of trouble.

Eh, will saves are your strong save and halflings get plenty of bonuses versus will saves. Those traits are fine. . .

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