GM Blood |
GM Horror, in the same category as Cavalier's Order of the Star, would the fighter archetype Dawnflower Dervish also work since we are Sarenrae followers?
GM Horror |
GM Horror, in the same category as Cavalier's Order of the Star, would the fighter archetype Dawnflower Dervish also work since we are Sarenrae followers?
Yup!
Naraj Drost |
Ok, so, based on the clarification (where one part of the Gestalt can't be changed, even for another religious-like class like Paladin), I'm looking at levels of Cavalier or Herald all the way up (assuming that Herald counts as a "upgrade" to cavalier).
However, either way, I need 5 levels of cavalier which means I can't avoid the mount (Standard-Bearers get it at 5th, and I can't enter Herald until 6th) -- which leads me back to a similar thought process as yesterday -- basically, that I should embrace the mount, since it's a core part of the class I'll be dealing with.
I'm kind of leaning toward a build like this, as a result:
1-2: Cavalier (Beast Rider) of the Star [core]/ Paladin (Shining Knight)
At this point, I have lay on hands and divine grace, smite evil and challenge, mount - level 2...
3-5: Cavalier [core] / Bard (Arcane Duelist)
[Mount level: 5, L-O-H: level 3; challenge level: 5; and qualifies for Herald]
6-8: Battle Herald [core] / Paladin (Shining Knight)
[At level 8, I'll have 5 levels of Paladin, so divine bond gets me a mount, so my mount level goes to 8 (one of each of my gestalt levels counts), and it gains the paladin-mount features (int 6 and summonable)]
So, heavy shield and mithral breastplate will be my friend (to avoid spell failure) -- until I get my 10th bard level, when I can cast in medium (mithral full plate).
At this point, I'll take Boon Companion as a 9th level feat to keep the mount level up and take levels of Herald/Bard (though I may want to mix in some levels of cavalier as I go to get access to the higher level abilities (like the level 8 order ability).
The "final" build would be:
[Core]: Cavalier 10 | Herald 10
[Blended]: Bard 15 | Paladin 5
With Boon Companion, the mount will be effectively that of a 17th level druid, I'll cast arcane spells without failure in mithral full plate and a shield (CL 15, level 5 bardic spells), L-O-H as a level 9 paladin (thanks to the Star ability to count as half levels), have maxed out the PrC.
Assuming I live anywhere near that long, of course. :)
Miraji Haelmar |
What type of mount are you looking at? If you take normal Cavalier, you can take the Horse Master feat and then have a full power animal companion/mount.
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I have not built mine all the way to level 20, but I am looking at.
Gestalt -------------- Base
1 Ranger(Trapper)/1 -- Monk(Zen Archer)/1
2 Ranger(Trapper)/2 -- Monk(Zen Archer)/2
3 Inquisitor/1 -- Monk(Zen Archer)/3
4 Inquisitor/2 -- Sorcerer(Celestial/Empyreal)/1
5 Inquisitor/3 -- Sorcerer(Celestial/Empyreal)/2
6 Monk(Zen Archer)/4 -- Sorcerer(Celestial/Empyreal)/3
7 Monk(Zen Archer)/5 -- Arcane Archer/1
8 Monk(Zen Archer)/6 -- Arcane Archer/2
9 Monk(Zen Archer)/7 -- Arcane Archer/3
10 Monk(Zen Archer)/8 -- Arcane Archer/4
11 Monk(Zen Archer)/9 -- Arcane Archer/5
12 Monk(Zen Archer)/10 -- Arcane Archer/6
Not sure after this. 4 more AA levels. Might take more Monk, or more Inquisitor. Could also pick up more inquisitor levels after getting to Monk 6. I think this sticks with the theme of the campaign with religious/divine classes for the Gestalt.
Naraj Drost |
Hmm... That's interesting -- any mount qualifies, as long as I have expert trainer. (Which, of course, you give up as Beast Rider... so, well-played. That leaves me with Horse or Camel.
I think the loss of three levels is probably worth it to get something more...interesting...
And I don't usually plan as far ahead as this, to be honest, but in this case there were a surprising number of issues in making things synergize despite the clear thematic fits of the clases selected.
(I find that a lot of Master Chymist builds suffer in a similar way...)
@Miraji -- I'm not sure you can do that build -- I thought that the clarification was that you needed to select a "core" divine (or divine-like) class and that you can only swap it out for a Prestige Class which is an evolution of it -- so in my case, it's Cavalier (of the Star) -- which then evolves to Battle Herald.
GM Horror |
Ok, so, based on the clarification (where one part of the Gestalt can't be changed, even for another religious-like class like Paladin)
I see I made the mistake of using previous wording to specify "prestige class". My intent was to say that - for your example - you can change your Gestalt class from Cavalier to Paladin.
Alternately, you could "reskin" the Sword Saint archtype for the Samurai class since it foregoes the Mount class feature.
Miraji Haelmar |
So, as long as we are a "divine" class, including ranger, paladin, cavalier/fighter/rogue/bard(certain archetypes), cleric, inquisitor, druid, etc. Then we can switch between the classes in the Gestalt? So going monk/inquisitor or Monk/Ranger/Inquisitor would work?
Katie 'The Sage' Dogrider |
hp level 2: 1d5 + 5 ⇒ (5) + 5 = 10
Decided to go with the riding dog. Need to change my name :-)
To throw out another idea, inquisitor/barbarian would be quite a powerful hitter. Max saves with judgement and rage together would be quite impressive. Not to mention bane later.
Archaelogist bard/paladin would be an interesting combination too.
Naraj Drost |
Ak, ok then. Well, that works.
(Also, wow, Sword Saint is pretty useful -- still all the tactician and challenges, but a "first-shot" on challengees that does sneak attack damage -- I'd not seen that before... That's certainly a "thing that makes me go "hmmm..")
Man! Just when I thought I had it all figured out.
(I assume that Battle Herald levels are still good as the "gestalt core" class, or did I completely misread that?)
Edit: As I consider, it occurs to me that I don't gain additional challenges or power in my challenges as a Herald, so Sword Saint is less than ideal, after all -- assuming I'm still going Herald.
Miraji Haelmar |
Ok, just wondering whether this build would comply. I am using Monk as the religious/divine Gestalt except for a single level of Cleric(Divine Tactician).
Gestalt Class Norm Class
Monk-ZA/1 Rogue/1
Monk-ZA/2 Sorcerer/1
Monk-ZA/3 Sorcerer/2
Cleric(Div Tac)/1 Rogue/2
Monk-ZA/4 Sorcerer/3
Monk-ZA/5 Sorcerer/4
Monk-ZA/6 AA/1
Monk-ZA/7 AA/2
Monk-ZA/8 AA/3
Monk-ZA/9 AA/4
Monk-ZA/10 AA/5
I have dropped the Ranger entirely and grabbed 2 levels of rogue. I think this is more useful, gives us the trapfinding, picks up a few more skill points and works better with a mobile shooter/caster. This way I only lose a few levels of sorcerer as well and pick up certain abilities I always like (although for some reason I never remember using) like Evasion.
GM Horror |
So, as long as we are a "divine" class, including ranger, paladin, cavalier/fighter/rogue/bard(certain archetypes), cleric, inquisitor, druid, etc. Then we can switch between the classes in the Gestalt? So going monk/inquisitor or Monk/Ranger/Inquisitor would work?
Question - would you allow a sorcerer to be both Crossblooded and Wildblooded?
Ok, just wondering whether this build would comply.
Yes, on all counts! Note, however, the requirements of Crossblooded: -1 spells known per level, which means you don't get your 2nd Level arcane spells until you reach Character level 7 according to your planned progression. You will also take a -2 on all Will saves, which does not appear to be noted on your character sheet.
I assume that Battle Herald levels are still good as the "gestalt core" class, or did I completely misread that?
Yup. Maybe it's just how I'm mentally conceiving of the ideas you've been bringing up, but I see your character as being the equivalent of a Southern Baptist fire-and-brimstone preacher out to vanquish sin and evil - all while belting out hymns.
Miraji Haelmar |
I pretty much gave up on the Crossblooded idea since none of the bloodlines that fit in with my build seemed worth the losses. Also, taking AA, I would not be getting the bloodline bonuses anyway. Finally, with me being an Empyreal(wisdom based) sorcerer, Crossblooded would work per RAW, but still just did not feel right.
Other than the two levels of rogue, which is more an ability/skill dip, everything that I have is pretty "fight for Sarenrae" in feeling. Ok, AA is not really divine, but together with the Celestial Bloodline and the Monk-ZA, it is hard for it to not have a religious tenor.
I will work on rebuilding my character later today, should have her re-finished tonight.
Miraji Haelmar |
Ok, so we have Paladin/Alchemist, Paladin/Bard, Barbarian/?? and Monk(ZA)/Sorcerer for the general party. Looks like we should not have a problem with the front line.
GM Horror |
GM Horror, do you have an issue with my barbarian fighting defensively and/or using combat expertise while raging? If you do, would you have an issue with the more controlled rage of the urban barbarian and doing those?
Nope, don't have an issue. Besides, with the way this group is shaping up, it's not like you'll be doing so all that much anyways!
Miraji Haelmar |
I think the +2 in WotW was a WotW bonus, it is in the initial materials I believe. I do not think that it was modified because of the Gestalt we used in that campaign.
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I think that Miraji is mostly cleaned up. Monk/2 -- Rogue/1-Sorc/1.
Me and the barbarian can run on ahead and wonder why the slow moving paladins are bring up the rear.
Miraji Haelmar |
I'm rather slow at this point, but do pick up 10' next level. By level 19, I will have a base movement of 90' which is not bad.
Hmm, I forgot you like to ride dogs. Unless you are a lizard, in which case you probably eat them. Lol.
Miraji Haelmar |
I have no problem chipping in for the wand of CLW. I will likely have some extra cash since I so not use armor.
Naraj Drost |
Ok, with the armour downgrade (and an holy symbol downgrade from iron to silver), I think I'm otherwise done. (And I'm assuming I'm not carrying the wand).
Still kicking around the idea of trading Arcane Temper in for Armour Expert, because the hit to stealth (and related skills) is a mite bit painful.... though I'll be able to cast cat's grace in the not-impossibly-far-off future.
Miraji Haelmar |
Ok, I think that my character is ready. Working on the background. I assume we are placing this in Golarian somewhere? If not, I will modify the background which I am working on at present.
I have about 350gp left. If someone needs to borrow some, let me know. I have no problem kicking in for a wand of CLW.
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Not that it really matters, but I figure that we are all the odd balls who ended up at a temple of Sarenrae - orphans, outcasts of society, children rescued after a battle, etc. We are essentially all kids who were raised in the Dawnflower's temple and have gained a variety of divine skills along the way.
Miraji Haelmar |
So, what race is GM Blood? Did he stick with orc? So far we have a rat, a strange blue chick, and a human torch.
Miraji Haelmar |
HUMAN!!!! - He's gonna make us have to carry torches and lamps. He will always be whining about it being dark and all kinds of nonsense. Lol.
Miraji Haelmar |
I bounced around with full plate fighter/ranger/cleric(crusader) fighting sword and board. Figure that fighter10/ranger10/cleric20 would give me solid martial prowess and a ton of feats. Finally decided that mobile archer Monk/AA would be cool. Monks never cast arcane spells, this is going to confuse the heck out of most sages.
Miraji Haelmar |
Hmm - still trying to figure this out. I seem to be the ranged attacks, arcane power and trap disabler. Not that I mind, but this does take some nifty finessing to put together. I think that I will drop the Rogue and take Ranger(trapper) at first level. My Gestalt will be all Monk(ZA). The main class will be:
1 Ranger(Trapper)/1
2 Sorc/1
3 Cleric(divine tac)/1
4-6 Sorc/2-4
7-16 AA/1-10
In that order. I think that this will leave me fairly strong in the arcane. Not quite a pure caster, but close. Plus I get the ability to use any divine item, can disable traps, and should be able to back you all up with both arcane and conventional firepower.
The only strange class is the cleric, but I really like the bonus powers for the Divine Tactician.
Miraji Haelmar |
I am pretty much ready any time. Need to convert to my current build, but that should only take a few minutes.
GM Blood |
I will promise Fingers Crossed to get mine character sheet done tonight. Life has been real busy the last few days. I also have a Stonelord paladin to make for another game that has resumed after a long time so I need to get cracking on that.
So it finalized on Lizardman Barbarian/Oracle with 1 level of Unarmed Fighter. GM Horror also let me add Darvision at the cost of two race Points to make it a 10 RP/25 BP and we can all have darkvision.
Were you asking me about the dawnflower dervish? I was thinking of that with the dervish fighter archetype for a moment.