Welcome, guys. I'm setting this up so that we can move things into a campaign where we will get notifications of new posts. I will in a few minutes also set up gameplay; please dot and delete.
Because of the unique nature of the characters, I think we will have to do a bit of the character building together. Can each of you please give us your basic character concept? i.e. race, class, any archetypes or other major changes? Then we can see how things fit together. We will be building characters at level 7.
Probably the worst time to bring this up but I'll be out of town this weekend for a wedding. I'm leaving early in the morning (Eastern US time) but I'll try to get as much compiled tonight as I can.
Are there any special rules for creating familiars / companions themselves?
I'll wait to see what the players want to play before proposing my idea on companion or familiar (or I'll propose multiple) but I am pretty flexible. Just glad to be a part of this! Thanks so much for taking it on, Redelia!
Thanks so much again for setting this up, Redelia! I guess one thing we'll need to answer is which of the familiar players is paired up with which of the master players, in addition to what we're doing about the possibility of another player or two.
Here's roughly what I'm thinking for my character:
Brennus was once someone else's familiar. However, something happened to that someone else, and he became, once again, just an ordinary raven. While his memory of this is vague, he remembers the horror of his super-ravenly intellect draining away, and is terrified of this happening again.
He became the familiar of whoever he's the familiar of now, and immediately expressed his gratitude for his restored status by insisting on looking for ways to make certain such a thing will never happen again. He's managed to get some success in becoming (having approximately the stats of a faerie dragon--I'll rough out what I'm thinking tomorrow if I can), but he's still somewhat nervous about the precariousness of his status as a familiar, and would very much like to become powerful enough that he could strike out on his own if something were to happen without losing most of his mind.
Underneath all of those selfish motivations, however, Brennus genuinely cares about his master and people in general. It's hard to get him to admit it, as he always comes up with some excuse for how helping other people was in his best interests, but the truth is that the consciousness of his own vulnerability makes him sensitive to the worries and fears of others, and he wants to help out more or less in spite of himself.
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So, questions? Concerns?
On the subject of building the familiars, I mentioned before that I think it would be good if we got our own feats and skill points. I believe this would let us customize our familiars and give them more versatility without making them powerful enough to ruin the master/familiar dynamic.
I was also thinking it might be interesting to be able to slightly customize our stats--perhaps being able to add +2 to a stat or two at the cost of a -2 to another stat or two? I'm not as certain on this being worthwhile, but I thought I'd throw it out there.
I guess another question is what to do about HP. The standard way of doing it would leave us rather fragile if we start getting heavily involved in combat. On the other talon, that fragility is part of what makes the whole thing interesting to me.
it looked as though you were looking for more players in the originating link, I would play a PC if you needed a familiar master, other wise my proposed familiar would be:
A homonculus created through the craft construct via promethean Disciple Alchemist discovery...who lost or was ultimately rejected by, his master.
Based off the Homonculus construction and a starting wealth of the proposed seventh level:23500 gp
2 HD Homonnculus creation: 2050 gp
+2000 gp per HD to get to 7th: +10000 gp
Speech: +500 gp
Acid Breath: +1500 gp
Natural Armor +1 or +2: 1000 gp or 4000 gp respectively
which would leave either 8450 gp or 4450 gp to get a spell-like ability from the required purchase of 10 potions
He could be an alchemist himself with the Promethean Disciple Discovery so that he can upgrade himself when he has the money. And also serve as a familiar's master...with the eldritch heritage arcane bloodline-if you wanna make a storyline of familiar who became a PC with the purpose of self-upgrading and obtaining his own familiar to show how a familiar's master should properly exemplify his position. Kinda like the abandoned child who tries to be a better father to his own kid. Possibly his master was an AAsimar who died in a lab explosion- and he was accidentally imbued with some celestial sentience as a result.
Otherwise, if you need an extra, I would be happy to fill any role needed!
VoodooMonkey, I will certainly keep you in mind once we're ready to open things to other players. Right now I want to get the original party of 4 set up and see what gaps there are in their party.
Brennus, I like your character idea, and I like where you are thinking in terms of details. I think I want to get everyone's character concept mapped out before I say more than that.
Since Brennus is looking at a raven, I was looking at one of two options:
a) A pseudodragon. Some personality similar to a cat (playful, independent). Depending on what the extent of familiar abilities is, probably some decent knowledge skills (and maybe eventually some spells?). Someone who has been around a while. Not easily trusting of others, but becoming quite loyal after a fashion. A little bit of Salem from Sabrina, or the Cheshire Cat from Alice, but, you know, as a little dragon.
b) A wolf or tiger/lion. This would be the animal companion route, which might be better for variety and diversity with Brennus also doing something flying/mobile. Despite the likelihood of large size (with level 7th), I wouldn't particularly want to be ridden, but may allow it in a jam. But this character would be much more battle-weary and loyal, and more of a protector. Probably some inspiration here from Chewbacca.
I can get further into personality things, but I'd like to work out the backstory with my "master", which is why I'm leaving that basically non-existent at this stage. And obviously I'm not sure what to do about build stuff now.
Oh, I'd love to see a Cheshire Cat/Salem pseudodragon, myself. :D
Sorry for the delay... I don't have a well-developed character concept yet. Usually I grab something from the story or a low roll for a weakness and run with it, but for this so far I've just been trying to figure out the options of which classes I could choose that have familiars. I was thinking cleric, but can't figure out a fit where the familiar is actually the type that our familiars want to pay, which kind of ruins the whole idea. :)
So, I think I will fall back on the class I play the most, which is sorcerer. The Tattooed Sorcerer archetype gives a familiar that can actual meld into my skin and become a tattoo, which I imagine you guys won't do a lot, but whichever one is "mine" can do it if they are low on hit points or something--?
So... I want to go with some kind of sorcerer, with that archetype. I'm open to different sorcerer options though, depending on what our world is like, or how our game is going to balance. Maybe Fey, since "Faeries of Tulia" or Draconic because I like having claws. :)
Edit: Dreamspun? Would that fit with the world?
Thoughts? Suggestions?
Edit: On race... Aasimar or Human probably unless there is a more interesting choice that fits the world. I enjoy playing unusual races, but they have to look human or go with the story, or they don't really fit in. I want to play an android for instance, but this game probably isn't the place for it. :)
So, getting in to back story... off the top of my head. If we're in a city/large town, she could be a tattoo artist. Hmm. Let's see. If we are in kind of a faerie realm, maybe it's a dreamworld (or the real world is the dreamworld) ... or even if they aren't actually dream worlds, her dreams have led her here, so the bloodline can be the character quirk to build around. She is a tattoo artist even if she lives in a small town because that is how she manifests what she sees in her dreams... through that art. And sometimes they help her know what is coming, but more often than not, they are just strange clues that she's learned to trust. They lead her somewhere and then she just has to wait and see what happens. They've led her here... but she doesn't know why.
... anyway, a beginning perhaps. I can expand it in the morning if you guys are good with it.
Okay, so in starting to build something, I had another idea in terms of race... if blue skin would fit into your world (?), then perhaps a Samsaran? Goes along with the whole dream theme this character has going: "Samsarans’ memories of their past lives are not complete—they most often feel like half-remembered dreams." It's not ideal racial score bonuses for a Sorcerer, but story-wise it's awesome. It explains the bloodline, and gives lots of background hooks to hang my character on.
Also (if that fits and is okay), was wondering if we could modify the Alternate Racial trait "Mystic Past Life"
Mystic Past Life (Su) You can add spells from another spellcasting class to the spell list of your current spellcasting class. You add a number of spells equal to 1 + your spellcasting class’s key ability score bonus (Wisdom for clerics, and so on). The spells must be the same type (arcane or divine) as the spellcasting class you’re adding them to. For example, you could add divine power to your druid class spell list, but not to your wizard class spell list because divine power is a divine spell. These spells do not have to be spells you can cast as a 1st-level character. The number of spells granted by this ability is set at 1st level. Changes to your ability score do not change the number of spells gained. This racial trait replaces shards of the past.
Right now it forbids any crossover from arcane to divine, and I am suggesting not a complete lifting of that restriction, because it is a very good one overall, but lifting it *only* for spells with the word "Dream" in the title. There are a few that I saw, like Dream Feast (1), Traveling Dream (4), and Dream Travel (6) as I was researching dream spells that don't seem overpowered, and it seems that someone who was a master of dreams would be able to do anything dream-related.
Your call, though, of course. Just an idea... I keep going farther down the dream rabbit hole. You can tell me to stop. :)
Thinking of taking the "Good Dreams" trait, if we are doing traits.
Also thinking about possible weaknesses... maybe her dreams are so real, she isn't always sure if this is reality or a dream -- so maybe like the guy in A Beautiful Mind a little, in terms of being susceptible to illusion, or not being certain whether she is meeting someone for the first time if she's seen them in a dream before?
Anyway, just thoughts. I'll be adding all the sorcerer stuff to this alias as things firm up a little, and totally open to suggestions or modification based on the world (or GM preference). I'll also change the name when I think of one... just haven't really attacked that part of it yet. (And change the picture if I turn Samsaran.) :)
Interesting Familiar Archetype that might be appropriate for my familiar, if the player of the familiar wants to switch it up frequently (Whether to take it is the Familiar's choice and not mine in this game, obviously):
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/wizard/familiar/familiar-arche types/figment-familiar-archetype/
Figment (Familiar Archetype)
Note: Familiar archetypes modify familiars’ standard abilities, similar to how class archetypes modify player characters’ class features. These archetypes function by swapping out certain abilities that are standard to common familiars for new abilities tailored to particular themes. Unless otherwise stated, levels referenced in this section refer to the familiar’s effective level, which is the master’s combined levels in the classes that grant that familiar.
Figments are born from their masters’ imaginations rather than awakened from ordinary creatures.
Recurring Dream (Su)
A figment has a total number of hit points equal to 1/4 the master’s total hit points. If the figment dies, it vanishes, appearing again with 1 hit point after its master awakens from a full night’s sleep. If a figment ever strays more than 100 feet from its master, a figment enters an antimagic field, or a figment’s master is rendered unconscious or asleep, the figment disappears until the next time its master prepares spells or regains spells per day. Because it is a being of its master’s own mind, a figment can never serve as a witch’s familiar, and it can’t use any divination spells or spell-like abilities it may possess.
This ability replaces improved evasion.
Manifest Dreams (Su)
At 3rd level, a figment is shaped by its master’s dreams. Each time the master awakens from a full night’s rest, he can apply to the figment 1 evolution point worth of eidolon evolutions that don’t have a base form requirement. At 7th level, he can apply 2 points worth of evolutions; at 13th level, he can apply 3 points worth of eidolon evolutions.
This ability replaces deliver touch spells, speak with animals of its kind, and scry on familiar.
Mystic past life looks good; I will lift the restriction in general, as long as you give me a list of the crossover spells and an explanation of why you chose each one.
Brennus doesn't really fit with the dream theme, so you'll have to see if YoricksRequiem would like to.
GM: Great. :) Will do.
Yorick: What do you think? Want to team up? To be clear, the figment archetype isn't something I am asking you to do. Just an option. Has some cool stuff in it, but if you feel it limits you, no archetype required, or feel free to take a different one. :)
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I could play Brennus' humanoid companion.
One of the most direct things to do would be to build a witch... because familiars are extremely important to witches. Also, the backstory of witches suggest that the familiar is provided to the witch by their patron. We could turn that up a little bit, which would make the familiar a little more independent, and somebody that the witch needs to keep happy if he/she wants to keep her power.
What witch patrons do you see as fitting best with how you see Brennus?
Oooo, that could be interesting... I'd say Mind, Stars, Transformation, or especially Trickery would be appropriate.
Everything looks good so far, guys. Once you get the basic ideas mapped out, we'll talk about how to boost the familiars so that they can be full participants in combat and skills.
Any guidelines for how you want the regular characters to do stats? Point-buy, rolling, or a pre-chosen stat string that everyone uses? Background skills? Traits? Or am I jumping ahead too much?
(Still working on the spell list, but how many I get depends on my Charisma bonus, which I don't know... I can still just pick a higher number though, and take one or two off if my bonus is lower.)
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I'm also guessing we're making level 7 characters so that improved familiars are available.
Re: boosting the familiars, I'm not sure we really do want them to be *full* participants in combats. At that point, they're less familiars and more characters with an animal race. Ideally the game would be set up so that familiars are able to participate in combat without having to be directly in the line of fire, so to speak. Hopefully, also, we'll be able to take a more tactical approach so that we don't have very many straight-up beat-down combats. (More specops, less infantry.) In that case, familiars (even regular ones) can be very important participants.
What do the familiar players think?
Yeah, I was thinking of us familiars not being as capable of combatants in terms of straight damage-dealing and such, but rather finding other ways to contribute through trickery and tactics.
Oh, I'm not talking about familiars matching PCs in terms of hit points or AC or anything. It's just that the familiars will be 'participating' in combat, which negates the usual gentlemans' agreement that familiars completely stay out of combat so they are not valid targets. The familiars need to be buffed up enough so that they aren't squashed in just 1 not-critical hit. I'm also planning to make sure they have fun things to do, such as maybe a wand they can use (depending on exactly what kind).
Ah, okay, understood. :) In Brennus's case, if he's getting a faerie dragon's stats he'll have 3rd-level sorcerer spellcasting, and I'm planning on him taking some tricksey-type spells that should have some fun applications in battle. But having some wands he could wave in his talons or something along those lines would probably be wise, too.
For HP... maybe we should just calculate HP as if the familiars had as many HD as their masters? I'm not really sure what to do about AC, though.
Yorick: What do you think? Want to team up? To be clear, the figment archetype isn't something I am asking you to do. Just an option. Has some cool stuff in it, but if you feel it limits you, no archetype required, or feel free to take a different one. :)
Sure! I love the idea you're going with. I think I might pass on the archetype, though. I was looking at Sage - but again, it sort of depends on how we're building familiars, since the change in skill points / intelligence level for Sage may be incompatible.
The idea of you being a Samsaran who is following a trail of partial memories is super interesting to me. What do you think of the idea that part of yourself has manifested as the familiar (in a His Dark Materials daemon kind of way) - whether that's common for Samsaran or not - and that we've been drawn back to each other since your last death? I kind of love the idea that I've been looking for you for a few decades, searching for the new body you've been born into.
What do you think of the idea that part of yourself has manifested as the familiar (in a His Dark Materials daemon kind of way) - whether that's common for Samsaran or not - and that we've been drawn back to each other since your last death? I kind of love the idea that I've been looking for you for a few decades, searching for the new body you've been born into.
Oooh, interesting. I'm cool with that if the GM is. :)
Fascinating idea... perhaps part of me got lost in the dream, and since it couldn't find me, it also reincarnated but it had to as a separate being. Both of us feel that need to connect because we're still part of the same being and drawn to each other in order to feel whole. You knew what happened, but I really didn't... I just knew there was a hole in my life, and when you came, it was filled.
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GM:
Here are some spells I was thinking of for Mystic Past Life:
Level 1:
--Dream Feast
--Restful Sleep
Level 1 and up:
Any cure spells--these are actually arcane if pulled off the Bard list, but wanted to make sure you were cool with it.
Level 2 or 4:
--Ancestral Communion or Ancestral Memory (but these would need to be modified to apply to past lives rather than ancestors)
Level 4:
--Traveling Dream (mostly a flavor version of Arcane Eye, but kind of cool)
Level 6:
--Dream Travel (or Dream Voyage which is better, but 9th level, and I can't see being quite that patient waiting for a spell)
--Cyclic Reincarnation--justification for this would be similar to the heal spells. Samsarans can heal with their blood (the Life's Blood feat), so maybe through experimenting with her magic and her natural ability, she's learned to duplicate this too, for someone else.
Obviously I can't take anywhere close to all of these. I just wanted to throw things out and see if you had an objection to any. I can narrow it down from the approved ones when I find out what my Charisma bonus is.
The idea of you being a Samsaran who is following a trail of partial memories is super interesting to me. What do you think of the idea that part of yourself has manifested as the familiar (in a His Dark Materials daemon kind of way) - whether that's common for Samsaran or not - and that we've been drawn back to each other since your last death? I kind of love the idea that I've been looking for you for a few decades, searching for the new body you've been born into.
Now I'm imagining you combining this idea with the pseudodragon with a Cheshire Cat/Salem personality and it's making me grin. :D
Rknop: I'm thinking Trickery would be the best patron to fit with Brennus. If we're starting at 7th level I'm imagining our characters have known each other for a while. We should think about what their relationship's been like once you've got a firmer idea for your character.
I think these are all of the suggestions I've thought of for the familiars:
*Gain feats as a PC (every odd level/HD)
*Gain their own skill points (what would our base gain rate be? As creature type?)
*Independant HP, with # of HD == master's level
*Some ability to customize stats slightly--maybe like a 5-point buy or +2 to two stats and -2 to one stat
For the human/almost human players, use a 20 pt buy, max HP first level, 1/2 of hit die +1 +con+(FCB, toughness, etc.) on later levels. 2 traits, no drawbacks. Any good alignment. Standard wealth by level. You've have one fewer feats than usual, you can count the lost one as any level or even a bonus one from a class.
I'll give at least some basic rules for the familiars after I see the masters' basic builds.
The one fewer feats is to take care of improved familiar, so you can use all the rest on you. The familiar will get some feats they can use to improve themselves.
*Flaps about excitedly*
Please pardon my delay. I am working on it, and getting closer. I have a lot of it, but just haven't had time to complete the character yet. I'm hoping to have it up by Friday night--maybe even tonight, depending on how late I have to stay at work.
Sounds good.
No problem! Just because I'm doesn't mean it has to be top priority for everyone. XD
Okay, here she is (See Alias). She needs some minor touch ups and clarifications in spots, but this is largely complete, and I think that it is enough to go on. It's got all the major things... just not necessarily the minutia of totaling the money or short descriptions of each ability, and perhaps further expansion on the background, etc.
Happy to listen to suggestions / ideas from others (especially GM), or corrections if I made a mistake.
rknop, how is your character coming along?
I'm building a Hunter today for a different game, and I am getting a drake companion... noticed that they have a table with built-in feats and powers... thought it might help, since we want to do something similar:
rknop here. Character is partially done. She's going to be halfling Witch with the Trickery patron, who tries to be a bit of a tricker herself. Decent bluff, will probably have fun with illusion magic. I should have something to post tomorrow (Monday) night.
Here's what I'm working on:
I may still make some tweaks, and I still need to write up some background and figure out equipment.
Ooo, sounds fun for pairing with Brennus. :)
It looks like you haven't opened up your character sheet to be viewed by anyone with the link.
Of course, if you've shared it some other way with the GM, this might be intentional. :D
Yes, that works now!
"Another PC is my spellbook!" XD Nice.
humanish characters look good on very quick skim. I will take a few days to read over carefully and come up with char build rules for the familiars.
Looking forward to it!
As am I!
Ok, guys, I've been looking at your characters, and I've reached the conclusion that you really need some martial skill. What I'm going to suggest is that I try to recruit 2 players to be a ranger or hunter and his or her animal companion. I'll boost the animal companion's combat abilities enough that that will provide for all you melee needs. With three human characters and the three creatures, that should mean that your party power level is about where it should be for a party of four. I'll wait to hear your opinions before I set up recruitment, though.
In terms of the familiars, lets start with you guys just building by the standard rules, and then I'll take a look and see how much boost you need. Build without any gear right now, using the master's stats. I want to emphasize that this is just a starting point so I can see where you need help. I will be allowing you to change some skills, but for now use the standard rules.
Yes, with a witch and a sorceress I'd agree we need a hunter or ranger. Or maybe a summoner with eidolon.
I *think* this is roughly how Brennus would be with standard rules, though I took the liberty of changing his spell selection. Things that would need to change:
*I'm not sure what to count as class skills, so I didn't count any skills as class skills. So he might have +3 on many of his skills.
*I didn't factor the default faerie dragon feats into his skills/AC, because I'll probably be changing them if allowed.
*I listed him as a Magical Beast rather than a Dragon since he's supposed to just be a souped-up raven instead of a faerie dragon. I also left his bite attack and movement speeds as a raven's instead of a faerie dragon.
Agreed that inviting a ranger or hunter is an excellent idea.
I think there were some people in the original recruitment thread that already expressed interest... that might work if they are still interested.
Annnd Here's my rough Familiar build.
I'm pretty happy with it, but there are a few things I'd sort of like to trade out (Spell Resistance feels very strong, limited Class Skills is a bummer, my natural poison is too weak to ever matter, no feats is a drag, speak w/ master/animals feels like kind of a given.) But even at this stage I feel like I could be... not useless.
I'm on board for a Hunter/Ranger, as well.
I suppose familiars do have defined class skills. I could add in those bonuses if desired now, but if not, I'll just wait until we do the build tweaks to make those changes.
I've invited two more players. One has built a combat focused druid, which I think fits in very well with the group. I haven't heard yet from the invited animal companion. I allowed the animal companion to take 2 levels in a martial class, and we'll tweak the rules to allow that class's rules to interact nicely with natural attacks.
Brennus, you are built as a reflavored faerie dragon, correct? Then you 'cast spells as a level 3 sorcerer.' How about you basically add 2 more levels of sorcerer? That will give you more HP, you will have a second set of class skills, and you have the sorcerer skill points to distribute as you want, while leaving the animal companion ones by the rules.
YoricksRequiem, I don't think there's anything quite so obvious we can do for your character. Is there a PC class that your character would do well taking two levels in? I'd be willing to adjust a casting stat or things like that so you can build something fun.