Where do magi come from ?

[Blue_frog]

Pretty much title.

Hi,

I'm currently working on a character's backstory, and I suddenly realized I had no idea where a starting magus might come from.

I mean, for most other classes, it's pretty easy to figure out. A fighter can be self-taught or come from the military or a militia. A wizard could have studied at an academy or under a mentor in some backwater town. A bard could have honed their talents through practice or at a music school, a witch could make a pact at pretty much any point in their life, a cleric could come from a temple... well, you get my drift.

But what about a magus? It's hard to imagine one being entirely self-taught, especially with the hybrid studies being so codified. I mean, they wouldn't just happen to stumble upon Spellstrike and Dimensional Strike while practicing in their backyard. So I guess that leaves having a mentor or attending an academy... but the books are surprisingly light on magus lore.

Are there schools? Where are they located? Do they teach every hybrid study, or do they specialize in specific ones?

Any insight would be very helpful!

[exequiel759]

From their parents I guess.

On a more serious note, a magus is a fighter+wizard hybrid. Either a wizard that learnt how to use a sword or a fighter that learned magic to complement his fightying style.

[Deriven Firelion]

Parents. School. Some traveling magus took a liking to you and trained you like when a samurai or gunfighter trains some random kid they meet they like. Perhaps part of a magus order in the area that recruited kids with talent. Maybe a magus knight was hiding in some village watching over your character and training him as a magus.

[Pacifist Paladin]

I don't know about lore, but my 1e magus learned how to fight to survive then her girlfriend started teaching her magic. Roleplayed her as then using those basics to figure stuff out herself going forward (ie. getting to level 1+).

[Mathmuse]

It is well known among us Christians that magi come from the east.
Matthew 2 verses 1-2: In the time of King Herod, after Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea, magi from the east came to Jerusalem, asking, “Where is the child who has been born king of the Jews? For we observed his star in the east and have come to pay him homage.”

Jokes aside, I would guess that a militia would notice during training that some of their fighters have magical talent. Maybe they can cast a cantrip or two, "My mother taught me how to light fires with Ignition." The commanders would say, "You are going into special magus training every Moonday with a few of our experienced support spellcasters. Then return here for sword training on Toilday. "

Likewise, wizard academies could have a deal with some martial adventurers to teach the more robust students some swordplay.

Or it could come from natural cross-classing. The Ekujae elf Zandre in my Strength of Thousands campaign at the Magaambya Academy is a starlit-span magus. The Ekujae are famous as archers, so Zandre learned the archery side of the magus in childhood. She went to the Magaambya Academyto learn magic to fight a dragon that attacked his village. (Except that since Strength of Thousands is an adventure path, all PCs start at 1st level, so we have to fudge the detail that she was already a magus.)

[QuidEst]

Looking at the PF1 Magus archetypes, we see:
- Trained in the Five Kings Mountains, or by studying dwarven texts
- Suli who use it to channel energy
- Tieflings (nephilim) who use their blood
- Blackash Training Grounds in Erages
- Studying Jistkan artificers (paired with construct grafts)
- Following the tradition of Old-Mage Jatembe's Ten Magic Warriors
- Elves who have spent a very long time practicing dance
- Trained to guard mages entering the Mordant Spire

[Unicore]

When a wizard and a Fighter love each other very much, a special thing can happen and they make an unholy pact with Lamashtu to unleash a special kind of monster into the world.

[YuriP]

As a hybrid class, the magus could emerge from either traditional martial training grounds or magic institutions that happen to offer weapon-based self-defense classes.

If you consider it, such a scenario makes perfect sense in various contexts. Both swordplay and magic have their own inherent limitations. Consequently, it is logical for military institutions to train soldiers in both disciplines to shore up weaknesses, or for major academies to provide weapon training to enhance student self-defense—allowing students to choose how best to integrate these teachings.

In fact, the absence of the magus—with martial and magical institutions refusing to teach the other's discipline due to pride and prejudice—would be far more unusual.

[Rory Collins]

Shoot, I would think the Matanji Orcs may teach a version, maybe with a coalition of Ekujae Elves...or even a former band of demon hunters that took some Matanji and Ekujae under their wings and their teachings spread.

[TheTownsend]

I don't see why they couldn't be self-taught. A youth stubles upon a wizard's spellbook and a champion's sword and shield in the woods where some unlucky party died, and spends years studying both, practicing every day. An urban thief burgles the appartment of a studious sorcerer and becomes fascinated with the reseach on teleportation until the veil opens up to them. A weaver hired to craft base textiles to be made into legendary mage's robes becomes obsessed with the arcane runes they're instructed to only begin the inscription of, gradually merging theories with their observations of the monks who frequent their services into a martial style all their own.

The magus subclasses are admittedly a fair bit more prescriptive than most PF2 classes, but I wouldn't necessarily assume the particular focus spells and martial styles have to be passed from teacher to student. The assumed implication could be that these patterns naturally emerge from blending magic with certain martial styles.

[Dunwright]

As far as the spellcasting portion of the magus goes they are basically wizards (even down to the spellbook), the difference being that they split their studies between wizardry and martial practice. So I would suggest that they probably generally have similar origins to wizards, such as the two you mentioned, being trained in academies or apprenticed individiually under a master. Given the more martial inclination, I would suggest that the academies which train magi may be military academies which are sponsored by states/kingdoms rather than the more typical strictly-scholarly academies one usually imagines for a wizard. But you could fit magi into a more typical magical academy too; it is a unique magical practice which is worthy of study in its own right.

[Dunwright]

TheTownsend wrote:

I don't see why they couldn't be self-taught. A youth stubles upon a wizard's spellbook and a champion's sword and shield in the woods where some unlucky party died, and spends years studying both, practicing every day. An urban thief burgles the appartment of a studious sorcerer and becomes fascinated with the reseach on teleportation until the veil opens up to them. A weaver hired to craft base textiles to be made into legendary mage's robes becomes obsessed with the arcane runes they're instructed to only begin the inscription of, gradually merging theories with their observations of the monks who frequent their services into a martial style all their own.

The magus subclasses are admittedly a fair bit more prescriptive than most PF2 classes, but I wouldn't necessarily assume the particular focus spells and martial styles have to be passed from teacher to student. The assumed implication could be that these patterns naturally emerge from blending magic with certain martial styles.

A magus certainly could be self-taught, as could indeed a wizard by the same logic, and I think Paizo devs would probably encourage people not to feel like playing a certain class locks them into any particular background, but I would suggest that the "typical" magus is probably not self-taught.

This next bit I'm writing is digging into 1e material, but since it's a lore question rather than a rules question and I don't think it's been specifically retconned I feel comfortable asserting that it has (or at least can have) some relevance to the discussion. 1e divided its classes into three categories which were used to influence character ages of you wanted to roll randomly for them, the idea being e.g. it usually takes longer to become basically proficient as a wizard than as a barbarian so a level 1 wizard will tend to be (but not always be) a little older on average than a level 1 barbarian. These categories were:

Intuitive: his category includes barbarians, oracles, rogues, and sorcerers.

Self-taught: This category includes bards, cavaliers, fighters, gunslingers, paladins, rangers, summoners, and witches.

Trained: This category includes alchemists, clerics, druids, inquisitors, magi, monks, and wizards.

Not all of these classes made the jump to 2e, and some that did were changed substantially, and in any case I wouldn't go so far as to suggest any of these classes should be "locked" into these categories; it's fine to play a self-taught wizard, or a rogue who was trained by a master thief. A fighter may have trained at a noble fencing academy and a monk may be somebody who intuitively awakened an awareness of his ki much like a sorcerer does their magic. But I do think this is a helpful quick guide for what the typical fantasy of these classes is.

All that being said, the iconic magus, Seltyiel, first learned magic by teaching it to himself from a magic tome, so certainly a magus can be self-taught! And since I brought up 1e it's only fair to mention that 1e also had a Magus archetype (Eldritch Scion) which selected a magical bloodline and cast spells spontaneously with CHA like a sorcerer, which is more in-line with the "intuitive" category. Given the hybrid nature of the class, it may even be that the martial skills and the magical skills are not acquired in the same way; perhaps a student at a wizardly academy practices fencing in his own time and experiments with incorporating magic into his bladework. You can imagine all sorts of origins for your specific magus character... but I would still suggest that most magi in the setting are probably formally trained to some degree.

[Blue_frog]

Thanks for all these ideas, advices and suggestions, it's great, keep them coming ^^

I guess my original question was more along the lines of "are there universities, college or military schools specifically geared towards a magus ?"

Wizards have hundreds of known schools, monks have well-known monasteries like Jalmeray's houses of perfection, but I never read about specific colleges or classes for magi.

[Dr. Frank Funkelstein]

Blue_frog wrote:

Wizards have hundreds of known schools, monks have well-known monasteries like Jalmeray's houses of perfection, but I never read about specific colleges or classes for magi.

You have now, a few were quoted.

And there are probably a lot more, if something was not mentioned in a splat book it does not mean that its not existing.

I guess wizard schools feature more prominently because they have the curriculum spells that have a mechanical impact.
Some of them will also have a martial branch that trains Magi, like Magambya.

[The Raven Black]

The real question might be "Where do Fighters MC Wizards come from ? " since Magus seems to cover for those actually, and more efficiently at that.

[AestheticDialectic]

Unicore wrote:

When a wizard and a Fighter love each other very much, a special thing can happen and they make an unholy pact with Lamashtu to unleash a special kind of monster into the world.

This is what me and my wife call it too

[Dr. Frank Funkelstein]

The Raven Black wrote:

The real question might be "Where do Fighters MC Wizards come from ? " since Magus seems to cover for those actually, and more efficiently at that.

As i played both already: A fighter with a wizard multiclass is a full fighter with a few magic tricks up his sleeve.

Less spells than a magus, but with the +2 proficiency edge, reactive strike at lvl 1 etc.
I think its quite a good multiclass option, eat fire and deep breath are very nice options to have, for example, and there are a lot of utility/DC-less spells like albatross curse, tailwind, see invisibility, wooden double etc.

Basically you play it if you want a full martial with some options, not a gish.

[Claxon]

When a wizard man loves a fighter woman, that's where magi come from.

Dr. Frank Funkelstein wrote:

The Raven Black wrote:

The real question might be "Where do Fighters MC Wizards come from ? " since Magus seems to cover for those actually, and more efficiently at that.

As i played both already: A fighter with a wizard multiclass is a full fighter with a few magic tricks up his sleeve.

Less spells than a magus, but with the +2 proficiency edge, reactive strike at lvl 1 etc.
I think its quite a good multiclass option, eat fire and deep breath are very nice options to have, for example, and there are a lot of utility/DC-less spells like albatross curse, tailwind, see invisibility, wooden double etc.

Basically you play it if you want a full martial with some options, not a gish.

This used to not be true though, and it's a big deal (to me, at least).

In the past, unless I specifically wanted spell strike, I thought the magus was...not good. I'd rather play a fighter with the wizard MC feats. While the magus did get higher level spells, they would end up with less spell slots than the MC wizard because of how wave spell casting used to work. Now, that has been reworked and I doubt that I would build it that way anymore. But when a magus basically only ever had 4 spell slots...well I didn't care the class at all.

[Aristophanes]

I was always taught that Magi came from the East.