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It's your turn to test our two new classes coming to Pathfinder, the daredevil and the slayer! Read today’s blog to see how you can contribute to the Risks and Rewards Playtest!
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The link to Demiplane takes you to the Impossible Class Playtest, not the Risks and Rewards Playtest.
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Characters can continue using playtest rules even after the conclusion of the playtest period. Once the final version of a previously playtested class is published, any characters using the playtest version must rebuild to use the new version of the class before their next game.
You have no idea how much I wish this was the case for the Impossible Playtest. I loved the necromancer so much and have so many awesome character ideas for it. The year-and-a-half leading up to Gen Con 2026 has been extremely painful.
We look forward to seeing what everyone puts together!
I'm skimming the classes and have some initial ideas.
Daredevil: halfling with alchemist dedication (and several alchemical food formulas) using a frying pan (taking Halfling Weapon Familiarity for the forced movement critical specialization effect), probably taking the Step Lively/Dance Underfoot/Toppling Dance ancestry feats; or possibly a Varisian dancer with a bladed scarf. I have to think a bit more on pairing the Stunt Damage class feature with a weapon that has the Shove trait; it may be that prioritizing a weapon with the Shove trait will make it easier to get the extra damage.
Slayer: half-orc from Ustalav with the consecrated panoply signature tool and the undead slayer archetype. Although the chymist vials allow people to create a witcher-type character, I might also tinker around with the warded mail signature tool and the alchemist dedication to use a weapon siphon while wearing a dread helm and either powered full plate (if allowed) or bone dreadnaught plate (if 11th+ level).
We look forward to seeing what everyone puts together!
Crunchier than I usually go, but when I saw Daredevil gets Diehard at level one I initially thought "Well it's redundant with a Grimspawn Nephilim then," but actually you can just swap it like usual for anythign that doubles a feature, so now you've got a free general feat at level one, on any base ancestry! Normally reserved for humans! Gives Death Defying a new meaning!
Meanwhile on the Slayer side I really want to combine Warded Mail with the Hellknight archetypes. It's not so much that I like Hellknights, the restriction to the Armiger archetype on being already proficient in Heavy armor just fascinates me -- you can take this archetype, wizard, after you take three general feats! (We'll see if that holds true post remaster, hopefully in Hellfire Dispatches) But this guy, ooh, he can take it right off the bat and the funky spiky spooky armor is his whole schtick! Complete with little 40K medals and charms pinned on it for all the monsters you've killed in the name of THE LAW.
We look forward to seeing what everyone puts together!Crunchier than I usually go, but when I saw Daredevil gets Diehard at level one I initially thought "Well it's redundant with a Grimspawn Nephilim then," but actually you can just swap it like usual for anythign that doubles a feature, so now you've got a free general feat at level one, on any base ancestry! Normally reserved for humans! Gives Death Defying a new meaning!
Huh? Where are you getting that rule from? Many feats do that for skill training, but there's a reason they have to spell it out every time.
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Ok, so first impression was hype, both of these seem fun, and the slayer turned out to be way cooler than I was expecting by being explicitly a Witcher/Monster Hunter (as in, the franchise) and the specialized tools seem super cool.
Second Impression is that I want a bigger emphasis on stunts that earn you Adrenaline for the daredevil because adrenaline already feels like a good benefit-- feats that have the press trait are cool and I like how they intersect with the flurry benefit, but I want more that have the risky trait, and not the press trait. Daring Stunt is fine, but I'd prefer for more feats that serve that niche to mix and match with press stunts.
On the flip, the Slayer is awesome, but I'm concerned primarily with the balance between the subclasses, vis a vis their 'thing' that exists parallel to sneak attack / edge benefit / rage etc.
Bloodseeker feels mandatory right now, because its the best one by far and its reinforce gives a lot of sheer output-- flavorwise I really like Panoply, but the daggers have too much suck factor with their slow rune progression and lack of property runes. I love their intersection with crossbow though, and the feat to upgrade them. Chemyst Vial seems to be lackluster until the level 7-8 when the spec kicks in and the feat becomes available, I think the scaling is just too low for what it's trying to do right now.
We'll see if my feelings change as we get into the playtest period, especially if any of my players choose to test it in our west marches.
Huh? Where are you getting that rule from? Many feats do that for skill training, but there's a reason they have to spell it out every time.We look forward to seeing what everyone puts together!Crunchier than I usually go, but when I saw Daredevil gets Diehard at level one I initially thought "Well it's redundant with a Grimspawn Nephilim then," but actually you can just swap it like usual for anythign that doubles a feature, so now you've got a free general feat at level one, on any base ancestry! Normally reserved for humans! Gives Death Defying a new meaning!
Dang, is that not official? I thought that was at least implied with an "as usual" in a few places. Kind of a knock on a whole Lineage if multiple classes get the benefits baseline.
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I have to question what unique purpose these two new clases serve that couldn't be covered by just making them an Archetype.
At first glance, the Daredevil doesn't seem much different than the Swashbuckler, substituting Adrenaline for Panache. The ability to use Props is a great add... but it feels like something that was left on the cutting room floor from the Swashbuckler. This class seems to step all over the creative niche the Swashbuclker already covers, but with a few more bells and whistles.
The Slayer class I want to like... but it also seems like a niche version of the Ranger. The Slayer could have been a new sub-class for the Ranger or simply a new Class Archetype starting at 2nd level, much like others have (Avenger, Battle Harbinger, Elementalist, etc.). We already have an Undead Slayer archetype, making parts of this seem unnecessary.
In Pathfinder 1st Edition, we had hybrid classes for a reason; the rules needed a way to blend a crossover of classes without multiclassing. In PF2, the system math is so tight that the more we strain it, the more likely it will lead to powercreep eventually.
Please consider whether these classes fill a necessary void. making a class just because you can isn't enough, especially at the current price of RPG books. To paraphrase Ian Malcom, "Your developers are so preoccupied with whether or not they can that they haven't stopped to think if they should."
Dang, is that not official? I thought that was at least implied with an "as usual" in a few places. Kind of a knock on a whole Lineage if multiple classes get the benefits baseline.Huh? Where are you getting that rule from? Many feats do that for skill training, but there's a reason they have to spell it out every time.We look forward to seeing what everyone puts together!Crunchier than I usually go, but when I saw Daredevil gets Diehard at level one I initially thought "Well it's redundant with a Grimspawn Nephilim then," but actually you can just swap it like usual for anythign that doubles a feature, so now you've got a free general feat at level one, on any base ancestry! Normally reserved for humans! Gives Death Defying a new meaning!
"As usual for backgrounds, if you would gain the trained proficiency rank for one of these skill from your class at 1st level, you instead become trained in another skill of your choice." - Free Heart feat for elves
It's very specifically background trained skills, not bonus feats.
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The two things I'm happiest to see between the two classes are:
Combination weapon support from Slayer. It feels like we have so little that plays with combination weapons, and I'd love more for them. There's a single Gunslinger way that cares about them, and it's Gunslinger, so there's a heavy focus on the ranged aspect when I'd like more that focuses on the melee aspect or on switching modes quickly, efficiently, or with flair.
Dynamic environmental combat from Daredevil. More specifically, I like Breakaway Attack and its follow-up feats a lot. The effect is comparable to good weapon choices, benefits from fundamental runes so that it can stay relevant, and the later feats add options for more varied and interesting uses, like hitting multiple targets at the same MAP and bleed damage. I have always looked longingly at Weapon Improviser as a dedication and always shied away from it because there's so much GM adjucation involved in what damage, traits, etc an improvised weapon has, and I don't want to bog down GMs or get different answers depending on who I'm talking to when I'm planning out my turn before it happens. (I'm known at one table for "creative solutions" but I don't want to let that get so out of hand that it causes anybody else to stop having fun.) Specific, set damage dice, type, and traits might not be flavor-perfect, but I think it's a good compromise to streamline play without stifling creativity. I do think that the feat should explicitly note the weapon proficiency used for the Strike, though. For the playtest, it's likely fine, because Daredevil doesn't inherently have different proficiencies for unarmed/simple/martial and isn't proficient in advanced natutally, so the assumption could be that it doesn't matter. The problem will come on release, when Daredevil is archetyped onto classes like Fighter, Gunslinger, Monk, or other classes with proficiency progressions that don't match Daredevil's. It would be nice if they had the Strike count as using an improvised weapon for the purposes of any feats, items, abilities, or effects that specifically call out improvised weapons, but that's not something that's needed to make the rules work so much as something that would create synergy with Weapon Improviser or other options.
Say, if I filled a backpack with crowbars, how many actions do y'all think it would take to upturn it and spill those suckers all over my square for use with Breakaway Attack?
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Ok, so first impression was hype, both of these seem fun, and the slayer turned out to be way cooler than I was expecting by being explicitly a Witcher/Monster Hunter (as in, the franchise) and the specialized tools seem super cool.
Second Impression is that I want a bigger emphasis on stunts that earn you Adrenaline for the daredevil because adrenaline already feels like a good benefit-- feats that have the press trait are cool and I like how they intersect with the flurry benefit, but I want more that have the risky trait, and not the press trait. Daring Stunt is fine, but I'd prefer for more feats that serve that niche to mix and match with press stunts.
On the flip, the Slayer is awesome, but I'm concerned primarily with the balance between the subclasses, vis a vis their 'thing' that exists parallel to sneak attack / edge benefit / rage etc.
Bloodseeker feels mandatory right now, because its the best one by far and its reinforce gives a lot of sheer output-- flavorwise I really like Panoply, but the daggers have too much suck factor with their slow rune progression and lack of property runes. I love their intersection with crossbow though, and the feat to upgrade them. Chemyst Vial seems to be lackluster until the level 7-8 when the spec kicks in and the feat becomes available, I think the scaling is just too low for what it's trying to do right now.
We'll see if my feelings change as we get into the playtest period, especially if any of my players choose to test it in our west marches.
So far first read I am pretty similar. Base level vial maybe needs a bit more early game oompf and the panoply daggers need to start better. You are giving up a really good weapon option to pick it up so it should start better than chip weakness damage vs holy/unholy targets. It is a neat idea but as one of the two offensive options it needs to stand up a bit better to the bloodseeker blade. Doesn't need to be the same damage but it should be better than just basic daggers.