Exlempar Icons

[Elric200]

Can an Exemplar have 2 of the same Icon?

[TheTownsend]

You can duplicate certain weapon Ikons with Twin Stars. But if you're asking if you can have two different Eye-Catching Spots and swap between them, there doesn't seem to be any language in the rules that says you can't, much as it doesn't specify that you have to have a Weapon, just suggests that you should since its what the class is balanced around.

[YuriP]

During the Exemplar playtest it was explicit that you can't take the same Ikon twice, but in the final version this was surgically removed. This could be to reduce some book space, but honestly it probably was because the designers considered that this wasn't a problem.

But notice that many Ikons have a usage entry and when a usage entry with worn and if such thing is specific like “worn cloak” this means that you can't use 2 of them of same time.

So:
— You can have up to 3 Bands Of Imprisonment if each of them was a anklet, bracers, and circlet.
— You can have only one Fetching Bangles, but you can't worn a bracers' Bands Of Imprisonment at same time.
— You can have up 2 Pelt Of The Beast, one being a cloak and the other being a belt but if it is a belt you can't worn a Skybearer's Belt at same time nor a belt version of Victor's Wreath.
— You can have only one Thousand-League Sandals.
— You can have up 2 Victor's Wreath, but you can't have a belt version of Pelt Of The Beast nor a Skybearer's Belt at same time.

All other ikon can have as many repeated version as you want, but you may need to draw or swap held ones if you don't have them at hand.

[Finoan]

I'm not sure why it should be allowed. What is the intent of that? Which Ikon are you wanting multiple of? And why?

Because the ones that comes to mind for me immediately are:
* Weapon Ikons like Barrow's Edge so that you can dual wield them and use Drink from my Foes 3x in one round.
* Scar of the Survivor so that you can use No Scar but This up to 3x in one round.

Both of which feel unbalanced to me.

[QuidEst]

It would mean taking the class that is designed to switch between options as the situation calls, with incentives for doing so, and turning it into a class that does one thing over and over while benefiting from incentives intended to reward not just sticking with one ikon.

[YuriP]

Finoan wrote:

I'm not sure why it should be allowed. What is the intent of that? Which Ikon are you wanting multiple of? And why?

Because the ones that comes to mind for me immediately are:
* Weapon Ikons like Barrow's Edge so that you can dual wield them and use Drink from my Foes 3x in one round.
* Scar of the Survivor so that you can use No Scar but This up to 3x in one round.

Both of which feel unbalanced to me.

You can't because of the Transcendence trait.

It doesn't matter if you placed the Spark on another identical or different ikon, Transcendence abilities are limited to 1x per round.

Source War of Immortals pg. 222 - Transcendence Trait wrote:

Transcendence channels the might of an exemplar's divine spark through one of their ikons to surpass the mortal and enact a miraculous deed. Each ikon has an action with the transcendence trait, and using it is called Sparking Transcendence. To use the action, your divine spark must be empowering that ikon and you must have the ikon ready to use (typically holding a weapon ikon or wearing a worn ikon). Immediately after you Spark Transcendence, your divine spark is forcefully ejected from that ikon, coming to rest in another ikon of your choice. You can Spark Transcendence only once each round. As it comes from your divine spark, a transcendence action has the divine trait.

So even being legal to use repeated Ikons the only real benefit is to keep the same passive Immanence effect. It still useful, but you are sacrificing your versatility.

[Finoan]

YuriP wrote:

You can't because of the Transcendence trait.

OK. That's fair.

But then that leaves me with no practical reasons to need more than one copy of an Ikon. It just makes me wonder even more why someone would every try to do this.

Wouldn't it be better to have two separate Ikons with different abilities than to have effectively one Ikon with a duplicate?

[Tarik Blackhands]

Finoan wrote:

YuriP wrote:

You can't because of the Transcendence trait.

OK. That's fair.

But then that leaves me with no practical reasons to need more than one copy of an Ikon. It just makes me wonder even more why someone would every try to do this.

Wouldn't it be better to have two separate Ikons with different abilities than to have effectively one Ikon with a duplicate?

Most of the time you see this (along with "can I have two ikons be the same item") to double up on the weapon ikons (usually gleaming blade but sometimes barrow) to basically remove the off turn before going back to using your weapon's transcend again. Yes I'm aware you can use an action to force the spark back into your weapon under normal circumstances but having a duplicate ikon (or another weapon in the same item, especially for a 2h build) massively eases the action economy of it and is usually the motivation for asking about it ime.

[The Raven Black]

I think I would allow it as it is not clearly forbidden by RAW. For Gleaming Blade, it is basically a Double Slice though with no two weapons restriction.

But you lose on the versatility provided by having 2 different Ikons.

Seems like a fair trade to me.

[Ascalaphus]

I guess it's not expressly forbidden but I'd discourage it.

PF2 game design tries to lean away from doing the same rotation every round. Optimizers try to do the optimal rotation every round.

Chill out. You'll do fine with varied rotations :)

[Lightning Sentinel]

Some of the feats do imply that exemplars with multiple weapon ikons is at least an intended option.

Remember that ikon feats still apply to only apply to the individual ikons you pick, so they won't be quite identical if you pick any of them up.