So in one of the games I am building a character for, I kind of want to be a pure damage dealing musket master. The issue I have seen from gunslinger builds online is apparently the consensus is ditch it after level 5 since that’s when you get Dex to damage. But my question is what do you fill the remaining levels with?
I was thinking for a build without magic: maybe something like weapon master 15 for super fast weapon training scale and advanced weapon training on muskets?
The other build that I had in mind with use some magic to make the builds hit harder but I am not sure what to put here. Maybe a ranged magus or spellslinger?
So yeah I need advice on how to build a gunslinger with just pure ranged damage and with magic bullets.
My preference would be to stick to wisdom based classes. You shouldn’t need that much attack bonus, since you already have 5 levels of full BAB and mostly target touch AC. Inquisitor would be a natural pick
most of the Gunslinger guides are dated.
It's hard to avoid magic in a magic based game...
For Gunslunger, Pistolero, or Musket Master (& I think you may mean 6th level) you can dip into;
Martial: Fighter(feats), Brawler(martial flexibility). Monk 2(+3 saves and IUS is very nice) and Samurai(good for intimidate track) are okay and Rogue is bad.
Caster: Magical Knack & Int or Wis of 12-14 then Arcanist(dimensional slide), Wizard-Diviner(wiz spell list and nice abilities, see Coin Shot:T1 spell), Ninja(ki pool), Cleric-Varisian Pilgrim(support), mayyyybe Psychic. The previous beat Bard, Druid, Ranger, Witch, etc.
I'm against Ability scores less than 10 if avoidable.
Runs into the MAD issue Melkiador suggests avoiding, but the Gun Chemist adds some d6's to your damage and regains proficiency in other firearms.
A warpriest is a decent choice. The Air Blessing is great, sacred weapon is nice, and has decent defenses (sacred heavy armor) and self-healing. Spellcasting using fervor allows you to cast a self-buff and still shoot.
The self buffers like Alchemist, Alch- Gun Chemist, Bard- Archaeologist Bard aren't bad.
I don't think an INT 12 qualifies as MAD... lol... you won't be casting on foes but need to meet spell casting requirements and Combat Expertise req's Int 13...
Sor- Wild Bld Empyreal (BL Celestial) Sor relies on Wis but there are downsides to Sor.
Azothath wrote: The self buffers like Alchemist, Alch- Gun Chemist, Bard- Archaeologist Bard aren't bad.
I don't think an INT 12 qualifies as MAD... lol... you won't be casting on foes.
If the plan is to go musket master 5/gun alchemist X, PC would still want greater INT for number of uses of alchemical ordnance and its splash DC (+ a bit of extra damage). INT 12 does cover minimum extract reqs until alchemist level 7, though.
Siege gunner pairs better with gun chemist or INT-based casters, but I assume the musket master is still the preferred flavor. They do seem to be stackable archetypes, however.
Azothath wrote: most of the Gunslinger guides are dated.
It's hard to avoid magic in a magic based game...
For Gunslunger, Pistolero, or Musket Master (& I think you may mean 6th level) you can dip into;
Martial: Fighter(feats), Brawler(martial flexibility). Monk 2(+3 saves and IUS is very nice) and Samurai(good for intimidate track) are okay and Rogue is bad.
Caster: Magical Knack & Int or Wis of 12-14 then Arcanist(dimensional slide), Wizard-Diviner(wiz spell list and nice abilities, see Coin Shot:T1 spell), Ninja(ki pool), Cleric-Varisian Pilgrim(support), mayyyybe Psychic. The previous beat Bard, Druid, Ranger, Witch, etc.
I'm against Ability scores less than 10 if avoidable.
I will be dipping starting at level 6 if that’s what you mean, staying in musket master just long enough(til level 5) for the +Dex to damage:
I was thinking fighter for a ton of feats since ranged attacks are pretty feat intensive, maybe a dip in monk will be ok combined with fighter. Would it be normal monk or the Ken archer monk? I don’t intend to go for the intimidate feats unless I have a lot of feats left over so samurai is properly a pass
Do any of the casters boost my damage significantly? There’s a wizard and cleric in the party already so I am not too concerned about versatility. Coin shot seems like something buster Scruggs would do so as a gimmick lol
Melkiador wrote: My preference would be to stick to wisdom based classes. You shouldn’t need that much attack bonus, since you already have 5 levels of full BAB and mostly target touch AC. Inquisitor would be a natural pick Inquisitor would give me just enough BAB to have 4 attacks like hunches with gunslinger 5/inquisitor 15. It could be pretty cool playing a god fearing gunslinger though? Any archetype suggestions or is normal inquisitor good?
I grok do u wrote: Azothath wrote: The self buffers like Alchemist, Alch- Gun Chemist, Bard- Archaeologist Bard aren't bad.
I don't think an INT 12 qualifies as MAD... lol... you won't be casting on foes.
If the plan is to go musket master 5/gun alchemist X, PC would still want greater INT for number of uses of alchemical ordnance and its splash DC (+ a bit of extra damage). INT 12 does cover minimum extract reqs until alchemist level 7, though.
Siege gunner pairs better with gun chemist or INT-based casters, but I assume the musket master is still the preferred flavor. They do seem to be stackable archetypes, however. Gun chemist seems to be the most direct increase in power since it ate something like 1d6 per odd level in gunchemist and at a good amount of times a day… how would it compare to inquisitor’s judgement and bane?
as your seeking the largest direct bonuses, IMO Alch-Gun Chemist is stylistically what you want. You'll have to see how many levels of Gunslinger you'll need as there is considerable overlap between the two classes. Make sure to get Gunsmithing, quick clear, and pick up Point-blank, Precise Shot, Rapid Reload.
see also;
ratfolk Gun Chemist advice, 12-2019 post 3 & 4
Sniper Build, 12-2018
PFS Gun Chemist build, 11-2020
Gun Chemist multiclass, 11-2019
Gun Chemist/Musket Master build, 10-2019
Ult Cmbt FAQ Rapid Reload and advanced firearms
So the thing about Gunslingers is that once you hit level 5 you're already the best damage-dealer in the game. You hit Touch AC and you get DEX-to-damage, so although you can't quite do the Barbarian damage numbers you'll basically never miss, which means your overall damage output will be incredibly high. This is why people tend to multiclass after level 5, because more levels in Gunslinger doesn't really give you anything that other classes can't give you. What the Gunslinger is missing is skill points and utility options.
For that reason, adding something like Fighter for Weapon Training is probably unnecessary. Now don't get me wrong, if you really want to deal the most damage ever, or if the character concept you're going for is a hyper-focused gun-warrior then yeah, Fighter or more Gunslinger are going to get that done. But Weapon Training (for example) is giving you a bonus to hit that you don't need, and while the bonus damage will add up, it's already something you're amazing at.
So the most common suggestion I see for Gunslinger is the INQUISITOR. It has 3/4 BAB, 2 good saves, 6/9 casting 6/level skills (including a bunch of new class skills for you) and some really good WIS synergy (you don't just get WIS to spells and deeds, you also get to add your WIS to knowledge checks to identify monsters and to Initiative checks). Finally, the Inquisitor gets some combat buffs that are Swift actions, which means they don't interfere with your ability to full-attack, which is what every Gunslinger wants to be doing.
There are other classes that do a lot of what the Inquisitor does but usually they don't quite have that whole package - they cover some, but not all of the Gunslinger's weaknesses (eg. the WARPRIEST has WIS-casting and swift-action buffs but only has 2 skill points per level). You could also look at non-WIS classes, eg. the ALCHEMIST has lots of nice buffs for a Warpriest, including a Mutagen that can get your DEX to truly ludicrous heights. If you are interested in multiclassing with non-WIS classes, a 1 level dip into another class with Panache/Grit/Luck could give you more Grit based on another stat, eg. the INSPIRED BLADE Swashbuckler gives you INT+CHA to Panache, which would stack with the Grit from Gunslinger and let you choose which mental stat you want to focus on (see the note at the bottom of THIS ARCHETYPE to understand how these stack).
So yeah, my advice would be to go for something that gives you that utility, in and out of combat. The easiest way to do that is to take a casting class, most of the 6/9 casters have a lot of utility to spare. If you wanted something without spellcasting the Monk would be pretty good, the Brawler is great on any martial, or even take a look at the non-casting archetypes of the 6/9 classes (I know Bard and Investigator have some non-casting archetypes, eg. the link above for how Panache and Grit stacks is a non-casting Investigator).
3 levels of Musket Master Gunslinger - 17 levels of Eldritch Archer Magus.
Frillfill wrote:
Gun chemist seems to be the most direct increase in power since it ate something like 1d6 per odd level in gunchemist and at a good amount of times a day… how would it compare to inquisitor’s judgement and bane? Inquisitor using destruction judgement gets 1+1 per 3 levels damage (max +6 and 5 combats at character level 20). Works on all hits during the combat. Bane starts at 2d6, goes to 4d6 (+2 from added enhancement bonus). One advantage with the bane ability is that the Bane baldric allows you have effectively full character level for the ability.
Archetypes may be more campaign dependent as to whether they give you a boost or not. Couple of options worth noting: Preacher can actually be a decent replacement for teamwork feats if your party isn't using any. Solo tactics can be disappointing for ranged inquisitors. Sanctified Slayer gets studied target and sneak attack instead of judgements. Sneak attack only gets to 4d6 (5d6 with feat), but bane can give another 4d6. Inquisitors do also eventually get greater invisibility, if you want to go a sniper route.
Gun chemist is probably easier of these two classes.
Frillfill wrote: Melkiador wrote: My preference would be to stick to wisdom based classes. You shouldn’t need that much attack bonus, since you already have 5 levels of full BAB and mostly target touch AC. Inquisitor would be a natural pick Inquisitor would give me just enough BAB to have 4 attacks like hunches with gunslinger 5/inquisitor 15. It could be pretty cool playing a god fearing gunslinger though? Any archetype suggestions or is normal inquisitor good? I think even the base inquisitor would be a good fit for your needs. The only reason to not use inquisitor is because it gives you so many class abilities to keep track of.
Which makes me think, you may want to consider what you would enjoy playing at an actual table compared to what would be the most "optimal". Do you like to keep track of a lot of special abilties and dynamically decide when would be the best time to use them? Or would you prefer to be always-on in what you do, where you are mostly just incrementing numbers? Neither is really "right", but you need to figure out which would make you happy.
It's not like you'd suffer if you just went weapon master instead. Staying with wisdom was more about not branching out into other ability scores like intelligence or charisma, which you didn't previously need as a gunslinger. And the fighter's advanced weapon training gives you a few good options that you might enjoy.
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