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I'm making a Mythic Brawler (20/10) and obviously I'd like to take some Combat Maneuvers to specialize in by taking the Improved and Greater versions, including the Mythic Improved X feats.
After looking at my number of feat slots, both non-Mythic and Mythic, I figure I can concentrate on three (3) combat maneuver lines.
I think Improved Trip, Greater Trip, Mythic Improved Trip and Improved Sunder, Greater Sunder, Mythic Improved Sunder are no-brainers.
My question to you fine folks, then, is what should be my third line of combat maneuver feats?
The Grapple line appears to be a contender, but so does Disarm.
I don't care too much about Bull Rush or Overrun.
Of Grapple or Disarm, which should I choose and why?
Also, am I missing something extraordinary about either Bull Rush or Overrun that I should consider one of those as my third Combat Maneuver instead of Grapple or Disarm?
FYI, the character will be a Large character so that's probably something to consider.
Thanks.
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Improved mythic grapple could come up a lot. Creatures try to grapple you fairly often with their grab ability.
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Do not ignore any combat maneuver. The 3rd tier champion path ability Maneuver Expert will allow you to use any combat maneuver without provoking an AoO, and you can spend a mythic point to gain the benefit of both the improved and greater maneuver feat.
As to what maneuvers to actually spend feats on both Grapple and Sunder have a couple of mythic abilities that you can pick up. Grapple has 4 path abilities, and Sunder has 2.
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Do not ignore any combat maneuver. The 3rd tier champion path ability Maneuver Expert will allow you to use any combat maneuver without provoking an AoO, and you can spend a mythic point to gain the benefit of both the improved and greater maneuver feat.
As to what maneuvers to actually spend feats on both Grapple and Sunder have a couple of mythic abilities that you can pick up. Grapple has 4 path abilities, and Sunder has 2.
Sounds like Grapple is the third line to choose...unless anybody else has some different input?
Improved Sunder, Greater Sunder, Mythic Improved Sunder are no-brainers.
Check with everyone else on that one first... it can easily be seen as "destroying loot" instead of "making the fight easier"
(And the GM might hate it because it can make fights really boring for them.)
I actually beleive that dirty trick is probably the best combat maneuver line.
It can shut down, with dirty trick master, things nearly as well as grapple, but is less affected by size differences or freedom of movement.
I had a cohort (non mythic) in a mythic game who could still disable mythic adversaries.
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I actually beleive that dirty trick is probably the best combat maneuver line.
It can shut down, with dirty trick master, things nearly as well as grapple, but is less affected by size differences or freedom of movement.
I had a cohort (non mythic) in a mythic game who could still disable mythic adversaries.
Thank you. I hadn't realized that Dirty Trick was also a line of Combat Maneuver feats.
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First off, this thread should really be in the Advice forum: I've flagged it to be moved (I assume this is what Azothath's post is supposed to be communicating).
Secondly, are you actually creating a level 20 tier 10 character, or is this a character that will play from level 1 to level 20 tier 10? If you are starting at level 1, are you playing the actual Wrath of the Righteous AP or something home-built?
Thirdly, in my limited experience with Mythic, you are probably better off just pummeling your foe to death: Mythic play is rocket-tag on steroids, and if your foe actually gets a chance to act, you probably did something very wrong...
Finally, combat maneuvers are generally just a bad idea as they tend to fall into one of the following categories with very little space in between:
Completely worthless, as your foes are just immune or otherwise unimpeded (disarming a natural attacker or tripping a flying creature) - or -
Completely overpowered, as your foes are unable to fight effectively once you use them (disarming a foe who is built around a specific weapon, or grappling a low strength caster who wasn't built with a decent escape option).
Either way, maneuvers rarely make the game 'more fun' overall...
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First off,...
Sorry, I didn't see the "Advice" sub-topic.
Secondly, are you actually creating a level 20 tier 10 character, or is this a character that will play from level 1 to level 20 tier 10? If you are starting at level 1, are you playing the actual Wrath of the Righteous AP or something home-built?
I'm actually creating the character from scratch. It will not be "played" until after I make it for a specific scenario I have in mind involving Rovagug or an especially powerful Spawn of Rovagug.
Thirdly, in my limited experience with Mythic, you are probably better off just pummeling your foe to death: Mythic play is rocket-tag on steroids, and if your foe actually gets a chance to act, you probably did something very wrong...
Finally, combat maneuvers are generally just a bad idea as they tend to fall into one of the following categories with very little space in between:
Completely worthless, as your foes are just immune or otherwise unimpeded (disarming a natural attacker or tripping a flying creature) - or -
Completely overpowered, as your foes are unable to fight effectively once you use them (disarming a foe who is built around a specific weapon, or grappling a low strength caster who wasn't built with a decent escape option).Either way, maneuvers rarely make the game 'more fun' overall...
Regarding this line of thinking, I agree that you don't need a lot of Combat Maneuvers to make a non-Monk martial artist which, when I thought about it, is really what I'm going for.
I've decided the character will take Improved Grapple, Greater Grapple, and Improved Grapple Mythic for Combat Maneuvers.
I've also decided on two of the Dragon Style feats and, perhaps, two of the Pummeling Style feats for some of the character's other feats. I don't have to worry about Mythic versions of Dragon Style or Pummeling Style that way. Yes, I am aware that the Mythic Heroes Handbook has Mythic versions of most of the Style feats, but I'm not using stuff from that book except maybe the suggestions to turn down the power of the Mythic rules (Mythic Miscellany).
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I ran some numbers the other day and was coming up with an average DPR that was pushing 500hp, and that's just using the basics (Large size with 50 Strength, Mythic Power Attack, +6 enhancement bonus to attack/damage, normal and greater weapon focus and specialization feats, Mythic Heroism, and Pummeling Charge). This is also without taking potential crits into account.
Most of the published CR20+ mythic foes simply won't survive a single full attack routine like this, which means using maneuvers will typically just drag the fight out for no good reason...
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I ran some numbers the other day and was coming up with an average DPR that was pushing 500hp, and that's just using the basics (Large size with 50 Strength, Mythic Power Attack, +6 enhancement bonus to attack/damage, normal and greater weapon focus and specialization feats, Mythic Heroism, and Pummeling Charge). This is also without taking potential crits into account.
I suspect Dragon Ferocity while using Greater Vital Strike could also do some impressive amounts of damage. But you would only do that if all you could do was move more than 5 feet to the foe but not charge it.
With Mythic do not count on the restrictions of a normal game, especially not being able to move and make a full attack. There are numerous ways to achieve that with mythic. Mythic breaks a lot of things including the normal action economy.
Any character with the Champions Path can take Fleet Charge as their champions strike. Fleet Charge uses a swift action but allows you to move up to your speed and take a single attack as part of that swift action. It specifically states the attack is in addition to any other attacks you make this round.
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With Mythic do not count on the restrictions of a normal game, especially not being able to move and make a full attack. There are numerous ways to achieve that with mythic. Mythic breaks a lot of things including the normal action economy.
Any character with the Champions Path can take Fleet Charge as their champions strike. Fleet Charge uses a swift action but allows you to move up to your speed and take a single attack as part of that swift action. It specifically states the attack is in addition to any other attacks you make this round.
A non-Mythic feat (Pummeling Charge) allows you to Charge and make a full attack or flurry of blows. You have to be a Monk 8 or Brawler 8, though.
Not sure a single extra attack is worth spending a Mythic power for, frankly.
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One thing to note is that Fleet Charge takes a swift action, as does entering a combat style stance: This makes getting a full attack off with Dragon Style even more difficult in Mythic (assuming you aren't running solo and no one teleports you into melee, your partymates will kill most foes before you can get a full attack off). I was originally looking at using Jabbing Style, but that just doesn't work in mythic rocket tag with the swift action crunch: If there is a way around this issue, I'm not familiar with it (styles aren't really my area of expertise).
A Master of Many Styles Monk can activate 4 style stances as a free action at level 15+, but I assume this won't make up for the loss of Flurry attacks. I suppose you could go Greater Two-Weapon Fighting + Double Slice but that's an awful lot of feats...
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One thing to note is that Fleet Charge takes a swift action, as does entering a combat style stance: This makes getting a full attack off with Dragon Style even more difficult in Mythic (assuming you aren't running solo and no one teleports you into melee, your partymates will kill most foes before you can get a full attack off). I was originally looking at using Jabbing Style, but that just doesn't work in mythic rocket tag with the swift action crunch: If there is a way around this issue, I'm not familiar with it (styles aren't really my area of expertise).
Never even considered Fleet Charge because I would be switching stances depending on whether the character was charging or not.
If charging, use Pummeling Charge.
If moving to attack but can't charge for some reason (no direct line to the foe, for example), switch to Dragon stance and use Dragon Ferocity with Greater Vital Strike. (Impossible Speed usually makes it pretty easy to get to the foe without having to charge.)
Pretty simple.
Fleet Charge allows you to move and attack as a swift action and still take the rest of your attacks. It also means you ignore any DR for that attack. It is also available to any champion starting at tier 1. That to me seems well worth spending a mythic point on if you do not have another way to move and make a full attack. For most characters taking the champions path it is better than the alternatives.
The tier 3 champions path ability Fleet Warrior is probably what you want anyways. It does not use a mythic point; it simply allows you to move up to your speed when making a full attack. It also allows you to move before or after the attack. You could even use both in the same round. If you start with Fleet charge you can move up to your move and make an attack, then take a full attack and move away from the target.
The grapple line of feats are a great investment. In conjunction with the Throat Slicer feat and a Belt of Impossible Action, grappling allows you to take out practically anything that can be held onto or that isn't immune to critical hits--and there are feats that can help with the latter, as well.
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The grapple line of feats are a great investment. In conjunction with the Throat Slicer feat and a Belt of Impossible Action, grappling allows you to take out practically anything that can be held onto or that isn't immune to critical hits--and there are feats that can help with the latter, as well.
The Throat Slicer feat is interesting. I'll see if I can fit it in my build.
The Belt of Impossible Action seems to be only for Vudrani which the character I am creating is most definitely not. He is an Aphorite from the Plane of Axis.
That's too bad. It's definitely a cool belt.
Thanks!