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TheMythkeeper and Ironbear Jones return to discuss the next module in the Spore War AP, as we are joined by Podfinder. Very enjoyable discussion this time around, as the two lorekeepers of pathfinder talk to one another about their work.
Spore War: Secret of Deathstalk Tower
We discussed War interludes as a device to help with story telling, and altering them to highlight the players. We also took a look at Treerazer as a God, and his effect on the Tanglebriar. We also took a where the story is going, and the NPCs.
Expect my review of Spore War Book 2 to follow now that I am getting over that pesky cold.
We've very eager to see what other people think about the module while prepping it, and what other GMs have to say about the content. Everyone jumped at the chance to discuss the war interludes, and I will be focusing on them with how they were presented in the book, vs how we would present them at our tables.
We also highlight the work of a community member: Firgof who has done an incredible resource for book 1 during the EA delegation, that looks wonderful and functions as a tally keeper for majority on articles.
Firgof Spore War Influence BG
Don't forget Mythkeeper will be releasing a deep dive of Kyonin quite soon!
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General Thoughts: Apparently there are magical wards defending and obscuring these Jeharlu spores, despite them not being present in book 1 at either site discovered by the PCs. This would also have helped Lukarayzll with his predicament about not being discovered, but for some reason he was very under the impression the jig was up, possibly to prevent a delay in the climax.
I’m assuming the first author didn’t know what was planned since the other spores wouldn’t be sought out at all in book 2, despite knowing they were present all over Kyonin now, which is what was foreshadowed at the end of book 1.
This is also not mentioned in the previous research subsystem from the samples, nor can this same research for the spore network which is all connected, be used again in book 2 so another disconnect.
With that out of the way, book 2 did a much better job of setting up the main plot of the war with Treerazer, albeit as infiltrations and covert ops.
There are no direct conflicts with Treerazer’s army, just minions and subordinates. Given the feel of the AP I don’t believe that any confrontation with the main force is happening until the very end of book 3. If you are expecting the actual war part of Spore War, that will be in the 11th hour.
Main Elements: The confrontation with the Spore Queen is phenomenally good, but the book doesn’t carry that energy or focus for its length. Chapter 2 is mostly about acquiring the majority of the AP’s triumph points.
Speaking of triumph points, a new mechanic/story telling device called “War Interludes” is introduced to the players, which strangely relies on them spending TP, but not being highlighted in any way. Similar to how Triumph of the Tusk showed the orcs didn’t need the players there to win their battles, the War Interludes shows how the elves respond given the aid of other nations or are able to subvert Treerazer’s forces.
To better help spending, and tracking this system I have created a resource to help with this.
While teasing events to happen in book 3 and setting the atmosphere, the players are strangely left out of these events and need to spend the AP's most critical resource to do so. I’m certain in book 3 it will be explained further, but being stingy with the points especially after what was already said that a large amount would be needed at the finale for the final state of Kyonin and Tanglebriar’s forces prompts some player hesitation.
I do agree with Podfinder’s idea that the interludes can be flavored to highlight the PC’s contributions, but the creative director/writer didn’t seem to want this as the default.
Mythkeeper’s suggestion here was to have the NPCs like Shalelu give them updates on what is happening outside the Tanglebriar missions, and make it a more personal experience geared towards their actions more than a simple newscast interruption or “cutscene” which really has no place in the media of TTRPGs as I see it. Certain forms of media transition well into others, some do not.
Narratively cutscenes act to show a part of the story to the audience not perceived by the main character, but here it’s just confusing why the players get interrupted so much; either to encourage or discourage them in spending TP.
Iron’s notion was that the interludes could be played out by elven PCs different from their primary characters similar to ToT, or as side quests they could participate in. While that does seem like a good alternative, we’re bogged down with chores already in chapter 2 leading up to Deathstalktower.
Personally I’d just cut the interludes out altogether, and ask if people are willing to spend TP at points where the queen casts sending to the players, asking them if it’s alright to take as needed from their contributions; as the politics and warfare is overwhelming the nation. The interludes don’t serve a purpose in telling the story the pcs are making, they only act as keeping track of Treerazer’s progress since none of them detail the elves taking the offensive and feel more like damage control. If things are that bad and the Queen cannot make the call, it’s on her. These are merely personal thoughts on it though, you are free to do as you wish with them.
The missions are the real meat of book 2 with the interludes, and they just don’t feel right for a war turned into ‘mission impossible’ espionage. I’m glad that the discussion was focused there, and I blame my flu brain for having me nearly pass over such a meaty subject. Thank you Phil.
Possibly losing any NPC and having their soul stolen, and any contributions they bring to the war effort lost till rescued and resurrected is interesting, but completely random and it’s never the Queen. The Queen would be target number 1 to me, possibly saving that for book 3 to put her in peril.
Aside from that, we have a mystery tied to an elven wizard whose soul is currently in the Spore Queen’s possession that must be rescued to prevent the Witchbole from becoming Dracula’s castle and being able to teleport anywhere. One of the interludes foreshadows that this is how the Idara is directly attacked in book 3.
So regardless of success here, it’s already set to happen in the story. I did recognize the elven mage's name, and for those of you who have played Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous, he does indeed appear as a riftwarden at the opening of the world wound. He’s one of the first corpses you loot next to finding Camille. I guess Owlcat didn’t know what to do with him, but it's funny he’s also dead in an adventure featuring him. I’d like to think that was intentional, but just head cannon at this point he can’t stay alive on important missions.
Final Thoughts No indication why Treerazer hasn’t detonated the other Jeharlu Spores in retaliation, so he’s planning something better no doubt. It would have made a really good reference to cold war tactics, but I guess it’s just meant to be in the background now or just never used again. Seemed like his most powerful weapon a moment ago.
Miluvabrecht’s name feels out of place not feeling elven. I looked up the name’s elements, and I guess this was meant to suggest some cold war reference to an author. The concept of demons possessing elves is used once here, and never again.
I did like the tie in Mythkeeper mentioned with the extended family of Riverspire, and the traitor turning out to be demon possessed. Not sure where else it was going though, as the Spore Queen immediately benched this man after Riverspire fell.
Hopefully this is the end of the infiltration as it is best used sparingly. Making the same mistake of having book 3 entirely focused on it would just amount to filler, and stop the players from fighting Treerazer at their descretion. There should be some sort of overwhelming force that prompts this naturally in the story.