Stances and flying

[RKeith1176]

Looking for clarification on stances and flying. Members of our party regularly use stumbling and dread marshal stance, and we've just hit a level where we are regularly casting fly or using other means to gain mobility. Mountain stance clearly mentions that you must be in contact with the ground as a prerequisite, but others have no such requirement. Our game group is divided over allowing stances when flying. As I understand it there should be no issue using a stance when flying provided it is not specified as a prerequisite. Others are caught up on the word stance, and proffer that a character cannot have a stance if not standing. perhaps posture would be a more appropriate word. I personally get both sides of the argument, and see it as a case of the group needing to discuss rationally both sides and table ruling it to play on. I was wondering though if there was an official ruling on if you can take a stance when flying?

Tldr: can you use stance actions when flying if not specified as a requirement?

[Easl]

A stance is a general combat strategy that you enter by using an action with the stance trait, and that you remain in for some time. A stance lasts until you get knocked out, until its requirements (if any) are violated, until the encounter ends, or until you enter a new stance, whichever comes first. After you use an action with the stance trait, you can’t use another one for 1 round. You can enter or be in a stance only in encounter mode.

So:
1. There is no general rule against using stances while flying.

2. Your players are wrong in inferring "stance" means something like 'a way you stand...on the ground.' In PF2E rules, it means something more like 'a combat strategy you follow' (keeping in mind that, because it's a magical world, the strategy might involve the creation of magical effects, not just mundane stances or strategies that real world combatants do).

3. The "until its requirements are violated" rule bit might apply to flying + some specific stances (your mountain stance would be a good example). That would have to be adjudicated on a case by case basis.

At least, that's my thinking...

[Finoan]

Yeah, that's my thoughts on it too. "Stance" is a defined game term. We only fall back to standard English meanings if the term is not defined well enough.

[graystone]

Stances that require you to be on the ground say so. For instance, Mountain Stance says "Requirements You are unarmored and touching the ground."

[turtle006]

I would argue that synchronized swimmers use "stances" and are definitely not on the ground.

Seriously, though, since we have (at least) on stance that has the "must be on the ground" requirement it implies the others do not have that.

[Errenor]

RKeith1176 wrote:

Others are caught up on the word stance, and proffer that a character cannot have a stance if not standing

Poor kineticists. Especially Air.

[Fuzzy-Wuzzy]

Just a quick further thought: If "stance" meant "the way you stand [on the ground]," then any way of standing would be a stance. Which would be fine except that you can only enter or be in a stance in encounter mode, so anyone in exploration or downtime modes would not be able to stand....

[Errenor]

Fuzzy-Wuzzy wrote:

so anyone in exploration or downtime modes would not be able to stand....

I roll for initiative!