Throwing an axe critically


Pathfinder Second Edition General Discussion


Axe critical effect.
"Choose one creature adjacent to the initial target and within reach."

What if you threw it? Does the axe fly off and hit another target? The within reach is what is throwing me off. Reach of what?
I know there are only 2 weapons that this question would apply, but it's an odd feature. [Hatchet and mambele are the weapons]


Sure. That works. Very similar to Rebounding Toss Fighter feat.


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Even if you say a critical axe thrown attack lets you bounce to another target, what is the range? There's nothing to indicate.

As a house rule, I would use rebounding toss as a springboard and say a critical hit with a thrown axe would be able to hit another enemy within 10ft.


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I will also add, I hope that critical specialization effects in the remaster get a closer look. A lot of these critical effects that require specific position to function are absolutely terrible.

How often are you fighting something, and then there is someone else also attacking you within 5ft that's adjacent to the first thing? It's not impossible, but since it only matters when you roll a critical hit and you have little control over enemy position it's pretty terrible and not likely to happen. It's okay to keep these position effects on critical hit as a "better option" but we also need another non-position dependent effect. I would like to see every weapon get some sort of positioning dependent effect and non-positioning dependent effect, and allow you to choose if you qualify for both.


Claxon wrote:
Even if you say a critical axe thrown attack lets you bounce to another target, what is the range? There's nothing to indicate.

The crit spec says Adjacent. So that would be the range.

The effect is pretty well defined. We are just trying to narrate it in-game.


breithauptclan wrote:
Claxon wrote:
Even if you say a critical axe thrown attack lets you bounce to another target, what is the range? There's nothing to indicate.

The crit spec says Adjacent. So that would be the range.

The effect is pretty well defined. We are just trying to narrate it in-game.

So "throw 20ft" the 2nd creature has to be adjacent to the 1st and the 2nd has to be within 20ft of me.

Yes?

Also thank you linking the effect. Still don't know how to do that.


That's what I would do. If you crit against an enemy with a thrown Axe weapon, you can hit an enemy adjacent to that first enemy as long as the second enemy is also within the first range increment.

There is a bit of question on what 'within reach' means when dealing with a ranged weapon, but being within the first range increment seems right to me.

Like Claxon mentioned, having the crit spec do anything at all depends a lot on enemy positioning already, so the probability of this coming up regularly is pretty slim. We probably don't need to cripple it even more by ruling that even for ranged Axe attacks the second target has to be both adjacent to the first target and within your own melee reach.


Dragonhearthx wrote:
Also thank you linking the effect. Still don't know how to do that.

Under the post entry box there is a 'How to format your text' button. It shows you how to use the 'quote' and 'url' and other such tags.

I've never gotten the hang of the 'list' tag, but the others work quite well.


breithauptclan wrote:
Claxon wrote:
Even if you say a critical axe thrown attack lets you bounce to another target, what is the range? There's nothing to indicate.

The crit spec says Adjacent. So that would be the range.

The effect is pretty well defined. We are just trying to narrate it in-game.

Sure you could run it that way, but it'll suck. In much the same way it sucks for the melee version.

But I suppose then it is consistent.

Liberty's Edge

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Adjacent and within reach. Not within range.

So would work on a target within your reach and adjacent to the creature you critted with your thrown axe.


The Raven Black wrote:

Adjacent and within reach. Not within range.

So would work on a target within your reach and adjacent to the creature you critted with your thrown axe.

If it was meant to be used in practice only in circumstances that happen next to never (other than contrived scenarios used in whiteroom theorycrafting), then Thrown Axes should be balanced for not having a Critical Specialization effect when thrown.

Also, it is hard enough to describe damaging two adjacent enemies with a single thrown axe. How would you describe that for having to crit the enemy at range, and then hit the enemy in your melee range?


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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
breithauptclan wrote:
then Thrown Axes should be balanced for not having a Critical Specialization effect when thrown.

TBH it doesn't seem like Paizo really considers crit specializations much when balancing anyways.


Plus if you have Returning on the axe, it returns after striking the first enemy...maybe.
"after the Strike is complete" implies the axe flies back unless one entertains the imagery that the Crit Spec damage occurs concurrently in one big, sweeping Strike. This works for me, but some of the discussion above implies sequentially, which IMO wouldn't work.

As for the the Crit Spec, it can serve a purpose in a group that struggles vs. multiple minions/lacks AoE firepower AND faces them often in bunches where they're adjacent, but that's kinda rare I'd think. Some old school modules have the situation, but what party wouldn't carry Fireballs/Ki Blasts/etc. into such encampments?


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The fact is that axes crit specialization was made to not be used with throwing at all. So currently if you want to get crit specialization effect while throwing you need to select other throwing weapon type.

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