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This is more of a thought experiment then anything else. I know the answer is somewhere in the bard archtypes but I have no idea which would be best suited for it.
But sandman never fit what i was going for, and archeologist is a little too good for what i have in mind. I basically want a charisma based character that can act as a general/all purpose character with an emphasis on smooth talking. Is there an archtype that fits this?
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what about the phantom thief archetype for rogue?
no sneak attack, just skills skills skills
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what about the phantom thief archetype for rogue?
no sneak attack, just skills skills skills
Well i would prefer an archetype with access to 6th level spells akin to the eldritch scoundrel Rogue.
Mesmerist is a pretty good stand-in for a rogue. The enigma archetype makes a good "invisible thief" concept.
For 9th-level spells, but 1/2 instead of 3/4 BAB, a feyspeaker druid with the Crocodile domain has sneak attack to go with Cha-based casting.
For other "rogue-like" options: cabalist vigilante (Int-based), cult leader warpriest (Wis-based), greensting slayer magus (Int-based), nature fang druid (Wis-based), sanctified slayer inquisitor (Wis-based), and shadow caller spiritualist (Wis-based) are also available.
The Daredevil Bard is interesting allowing it to roll two dice for any skill check (ie, advantage) a certain number of times per day once they hit level five. Getting that +1/2 level to Bluff checks (among others) is pretty cool too.
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You say that the archeologist bard is too good for what you want, but that is exactly what you are asking for. If you are looking for a bard, you are not going to find a better fit for what you want.
If you want some spell casting but want to focus more on other things a Dandy Ranger might work for what you want. It only gets 4th level spells but uses the CHA instead of WIS and gets spells from the Bard spell list instead of ranger. Use the underhanded combat style from Ultimate Intrigue to get a more roguish combat style. By 10th level you can have improved steal, greater steal and quick steal without needing combat expertise. Rangers still get 6 skill points per level, but you might need to use traits to get some as class skills.
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I'm puzzled here. Rogue is a dex-based pure martial, and you want a cha-based caster. How are those two things connected?
I think it would help if you described what you're looking for without using a class that's completely different as an example. Hell, you should never use class names to describe the character you want, because they just don't tell enough. Do you want Sneak Attack? Do you want to have a backstab mechanic? (That's not the same thing!) Do you want many skill ranks per level? Do you want to be good at skills? (That's not the same thing!) Do you want to disable magical traps with Disable Device? Do you want light armor only? Any, all, or none of those could be what you mean with "Rogue".
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Eldritch Scion Magus with the Shadow Bloodline and Sense Vitals for Sneak Attack is the best I can come up with, but the answer is Vanilla bard.
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The closest thing to a Charisma-based Rogue is a Charisma-based Rogue. There are a bunch of archetypes with Charisma-based DC's... and a few archrtypes designed for Bluff/Intimidate builds. Desna's Shooting Star is a pretty obvious choice, me-thinks.
If you want spellcasting, then Bard or Mesmerist is probably your best bet.
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Ninja. They do lots of roguey stuff and their ki powers are charisma based.
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You say that the archeologist bard is too good for what you want, but that is exactly what you are asking for. If you are looking for a bard, you are not going to find a better fit for what you want.
An alternative to the Archeologist is the Archivist. He can buff his allies but is mostly a defensive buff, gets Lore master at level 2, and he can disarm magical traps.