I want to use a one-handed waveblade (a large waveblade) What's the easiest way (or different options) to get rid of the -2 penalty? Effortless lace would work, but it says it's only for one-handed weapons.
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I want to use a one-handed waveblade (a large waveblade) What's the easiest way (or different options) to get rid of the -2 penalty? Effortless lace would work, but it says it's only for one-handed weapons.
Irongrip Gauntlets will do it.
The only other ways to completely get rid of the penalty (for a light weapon) I know of rely on a particular result on a "random" table.
-Tiefling variant ability 15 (out of d100) is to wield oversized weapons with no penalty
-Ogrekin template adds a beneficial deformity and a disadvantageous deformity. Random result 1 (out of d6) on the beneficial table will give lets you use oversized weapons and
It doesn't eliminate the penalty completely, but the Giant-Blooded trait reduces the penalty for using oversized weapons in half (so -1 instead of -2 for using a large waveblade).
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Both the Titan Mauler Barbarian and the Titan Fighter fighter archetypes have abilities that reduce the penalty for oversized weapons starting at level 3 and both have abilities that allow you to wield large sized 2-handed weapons in one hand.
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The easiest way is to do nothing particular. It's a -2 to attack rolls, that's it - just compensate it with attack roll bonuses. We take attack rol penalites for benefits all the time (think Power Attack or Rapid Shot), this isn't any different.
There are some 3pp races that can wield large weapons with no penalty, Half-giants, Oggr, Okanta, Lizardfolk with the Hulk Alt-racial, etc.
my first question is why? aside from it being a monk weapon, all you gain is that it now does 1d8, and if that's what you want, I suggest looking at the Nine-ring broadsword.
Both the Titan Mauler Barbarian and the Titan Fighter fighter archetypes have abilities that reduce the penalty for oversized weapons starting at level 3 and both have abilities that allow you to wield large sized 2-handed weapons in one hand.
You are only partially correct there… both have abilities to wield oversized two-handed weapons yes… but only Titan Mauler has an ability to wield a two-handed weapon one-handed and that ability only works for appropriately sized two-handed weapons.
my first question is why? aside from it being a monk weapon, all you gain is that it now does 1d8, and if that's what you want, I suggest looking at the Nine-ring broadsword.
The crit profile, for a monk, and dealing more damage with power attack and wielding it two-handed.
Just so you know, mechanically, this is objectively bad until you can afford Irongrip Gauntlets without spending too much of a portion of your WBL on them. And even then the difference is small unless you have Improved Critical, but that can be gained as your 10th level bonus feat if nothing else.
my first question is why? aside from it being a monk weapon, all you gain is that it now does 1d8, and if that's what you want, I suggest looking at the Nine-ring broadsword.The crit profile, for a monk, and dealing more damage with power attack and wielding it two-handed.
There is no real benefit to wielding a weapon two-handed as a monk… you gain no two-handed weapon benefits just like you suffer no off-hand weapon penalties when using flurry of blows… the only time two-handed weapons benefit monks is when they cant perform a full attack action or on an AoO…
There is no real benefit to wielding a weapon two-handed as a monk… you gain no two-handed weapon benefits just like you suffer no off-hand weapon penalties when using flurry of blows… the only time two-handed weapons benefit monks is when they cant perform a full attack action or on an AoO…
Ignoring that the Power Attack 3:1 ratio works even for cMonk, one can assume unMonk, which very much does get the 1.5xStr damage roll bonus.
Would it work better to just invest in being able to flurry with a katanna?
Nah, that takes two feats (plus three other feats that you might want anyway), and even then you have to wait until at least 5th level.
There is one major problem with the waveblade not mentioned yet: It's not in the monk weapon group, meaning it's not eligible for Ascetic Style/Form. Which means no improved US damage, no DR penetration, no Stunning Fist with it, no style strikes with it, and no bonus ki attack with it.
You don't need Ascetic Style/Form, but it makes play smoother, and usually matches the flavor better.
1 level of cleric (crusader archetype) and crusaders flurry feat. Done. As long as you find a deity with katanna as a favored weapon (Golarion has one, Shizoru or however I am misspelling her name).
Edit: this gets you flurry, not the rest of the benefits of Ascetic XYZ.
Nah, that takes two feats (plus three other feats that you might want anyway), and even then you have to wait until at least 5th level.
There is one major problem with the waveblade not mentioned yet: It's not in the monk weapon group, meaning it's not eligible for Ascetic Style/Form. Which means no improved US damage, no DR penetration, no Stunning Fist with it, no style strikes with it, and no bonus ki attack with it.
You don't need Ascetic Style/Form, but it makes play smoother, and usually matches the flavor better.
Hm. I'm seeing a couple different places saying it's in the close and monk weapon groups. But archives is saying it's just close.
But even then, at level 5, I can apply the Ascetic Style feats to my waveblade, because it has the monk ability. Just weapon focus (unarmed) for the win. Because of the nature of the feat, that weapon focus isn't a feat tax, I'd get to add that +1 to my waveblade, also.
Just so you know, mechanically, this is objectively bad until you can afford Irongrip Gauntlets without spending too much of a portion of your WBL on them.
Yeah, I don't really care about the crit profile until later, when I'm crit-fishing for Ki Leech, and giving myself bonus attacks when I do a dimensional dervish (Savant) with paired opportunist and outflank.
Nothing wrong with shuriken and fists the first few levels.
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Hm. I'm seeing a couple different places saying it's in the close and monk weapon groups. But archives is saying it's just close.
Waveblade is from Adventurer's Armory 2. There is a list on page 10 showing which Fighter Weapon Groups the new weapons are in. Waveblade is only in the Close group, NOT the Monk group. There are other new weapons given multiple groups (like the sanpkhang).
Having said that, it does have the "monk" Special Quality. It's the only weapon I can think of that has that quality but isn't in the Monk Fighter Weapon Group. As a GM I'd probably allow it to count as being in the monk group.
But even then, at level 5, I can apply the Ascetic Style feats to my waveblade, because it has the monk ability.
Ascetic Form doesn't have such a section, and it's the more important of the two feats.
Nothing wrong with shuriken and fists the first few levels.
Or just using a different weapon like sansetsukon. But many people care about flavor in that they want their character to use the same weapon throughpout their career.
1 level of cleric (crusader archetype) and crusaders flurry feat. Done. [...]
Edit: this gets you flurry, not the rest of the benefits of Ascetic XYZ.
For the cost of a feat and a whole level, and then you miss out on a lot of what makes a weapon good for an unMonk.
Having said that, it does have the "monk" Special Quality. It's the only weapon I can think of that has that quality but isn't in the Monk Fighter Weapon Group.
Knuckle Axe is another one, as is, most notably, the Temple Sword. AoN says it's in the monk weapon group, but I looked in all four sources as well as the supposed-to-bo definitive blog post.
Not that I disagree with your houserule suggestion, but the above is sadly the RAW.
There is no real benefit to wielding a weapon two-handed as a monk… you gain no two-handed weapon benefits just like you suffer no off-hand weapon penalties when using flurry of blows… the only time two-handed weapons benefit monks is when they cant perform a full attack action or on an AoO…my first question is why? aside from it being a monk weapon, all you gain is that it now does 1d8, and if that's what you want, I suggest looking at the Nine-ring broadsword.The crit profile, for a monk, and dealing more damage with power attack and wielding it two-handed.
Not true for unchained monks.
But even then, at level 5, I can apply the Ascetic Style feats to my waveblade, because it has the monk ability.Ascetic Form doesn't have such a section, and it's the more important of the two feats.
Is that how it works? I've always thought that Ascetic Form boosts Ascetic Style, thus, the chosen weapon can, in that feat, also be exchanged.
I've always thought that Ascetic Form boosts Ascetic Style, thus, the chosen weapon can, in that feat, also be exchanged.
It doesn't say so. Ascetic Form doesn't even reference Ascetic style (sans the prereqs, naturally), and neither does Ascetic Style's special section doesn't say it applies to followup feats, not do the benefits themself make Ascetic Form work, as it doesn't as IUS as a prereq.
There are style feat chains where only the first one is the active one and the later feats merely alter what it does, but Ascetic Style is not one of them: The three feats all have completely independant effets.
So, you don't even have to be in Ascetic Style to get the benefits of Ascetic Form. I've never knew any of that.
Edited: nevermind. I looked up style feats. You can't use a feat that has a style feat as a prereq unless you're in that style.
So....it looks like you can't use Ascetic Form with any weapon that has a 18-20 crit range.
Waveblade isn't in the monk fighter group. Even getting Crusaders flurry with a katana with a weapon modification making it a monk weapon won't let you do an Unchained Monk's style strike with it. That's lame.
What you want is the Ki Intensifying weapon quality. Also the weapon modification to make the chosen weapon into a monk weapon works.
Ki intensifying only allows a couple stated abilities to be used through it. The ki Strike, allowing it to be counted as adamantine, etc, but not everything. Couldn't do a style Strike with it.
I'm not sure that you can make the chosen weapon something other than one from the monk group. As a katana isn't from the monk group, you can't choose it for the feat, even if you can get a monk katana. Be cool if I was wrong, but I don't see it.
One could say that they indeed work, but the opposite argument is also possible. Depends on if the special makes all monk weapons the "chosen weapon".
It seems that the chosen weapon is a specific weapon. Ascetic Style says that you can use the feat with any other monk weapon also, but doesn't have any language that says they are now the chosen weapon, so it seems as though you can't.
So....it looks like you can't use Ascetic Form with any weapon that has a 18-20 crit range.
You can with the Versatile Design weapon modification, but it costs you another feat (either Modified Weapon Proficiency or Weapon Adept).
If you want a 18-20 weapon for flavor purposes, you can go for it, but mechanically, it's not worth it. Not that it makes for too weak a character, but it eats up four feats, and that's without Power Attack which you really want.
It should be noted that if the flavor doesn't bother you, weapon based unMonk without Ascetic Style is perfectly feasible. You would (have to) make the ki bonus attack without the weapon, and use it to make the style strike. It results in having different attack and damage rolls across your attacks, but mechanically, it's on par with an Ascetic Style build. If you want to spend your feats on something else, you should consider this.
Neither Stunning Fist or Quivering Palm use ki or are actual "ki strike feature", but they work. Why wouldn't UMonk be able to use Style Strike?
They work because it's specified, in the text, that they can work. Style Strike wouldn't, because you can't use style strikes with weapons, and this feat doesn't say that this changes.
It's in the flavor of it all, but the mechanics don't support it.
You can 100% percent pick a Versatile Monk weapon, the issue is having the proficiency to use it.
In Ascetic Style, you pick a weapon from the monk fighter group of weapons, and have to weapon weapon focus in it. If I had weapon focus (Katana), I don't see how I can pick that as the chosen weapon for Ascetic Style, as it's not in the monk fighter group of weapons. As a DM, I would probably allow it, but can only use the style if you have a monk modified katana. However, the feat seems to be more restrictive than I'd want. A strict reading, I think, wouldn't allow that.
As for the special line, it depends on how the GM rules it since I know of no FAQ about it. While I understand Derklord's reasoning behind saying it doesn't work, that is not the only possible interpretation. You csn just as easily
say that the following feat are modifying how you use the Ascetic Style weapon, which includes the special line. For example Startoss Style has very similar wording, but with thrown weapons; Are you going to say that you cannot use the later feats because those...
Well, just reading the feats, Startoss style tells you to pick a weapon (and it's designated as the "chosen weapon"). While Startoss Style will allow other thrown weapons, the latter two don't, and are restricted to just the chosen weapon. I thought they worked the same way you're saying, until Derklord pointed out that they don't say they do that.
I'm just gonna rebuild this monk. Crusader's Flurry with a katana. One of the first attacks will be unarmed. If it can, it'd be both a style strike and a stunning fist. Medusa's Wrath and Ascetic Style (and having a modified katana), and I could get two more katana attacks if they get staggered/stunned.
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Neither Stunning Fist or Quivering Palm use ki or are actual "ki strike feature", but they work. Why wouldn't UMonk be able to use Style Strike?They work because it's specified, in the text, that they can work. Style Strike wouldn't, because you can't use style strikes with weapons, and this feat doesn't say that this changes.
At 5th level, a monk can learn one type of style strike. Whenever he makes a flurry of blows, he can designate one of his unarmed strikes as a style strike.
While using this style and wielding the chosen weapon, you can apply the effects of feats that have Improved Unarmed Strike as a prerequisite, as well as effects that augment an unarmed strike, as if attacks with the weapon were unarmed attacks.
It's worth noting that Ascetic Style was never made PFS legal. Partly because it's too powerful, but also because of the entirely predictable arguments about what counts as "augmenting" an unarmed strike and what was possible thanks to the "Special" line of the feat.
You csn just as easily say that the following feat are modifying how you use the Ascetic Style weapon, which includes the special line.
Not without making up stuff that's not there.
For example Startoss Style has very similar wording, but with thrown weapons; Are you going to say that you cannot use the later feats because those other thrown weapons were not chosen?
Yes, of course I do. "chosen weapon" means "chosen weapon", not "weapon that can benefit from X Style".
@Belafon: Not only is it questionable that an active ability counts as an effect that augments unarmed strikes, Ascetic Form explicitly mentions style strikes, which is a very strong indicaiton you need that feat. But what ultimately kills your argument, is that almost all style strikes have body part requirements. Back when Asceticv Form was printed, all style strikes requiored a specific body part, and yet the feat says yo can use the weapon with them, so you'd need an exceptionally cruel GM to not allow that feat to bypass the requirements. But Ascetic Style? There is nothing that lets you bypass the body part requirement.
So maybe you can convince your GM to let you use Style Strikes with just Ascetic Style... but only for Break, Dirty Strikes, Overbearing Assault, and Throat Crush. No Flying Kick, no Elbow Smash, no Foot Stomp...