Haste: Is it really as bad as it looks?

[Zitchas]

I just leveled up my technomancer and had to quickly pick a few spells, and grabbed haste because, well, it's haste. (This is my first Starfinder character, after a long Pathfinder career).

We get into a sticky situation, and I cast haste, and really looked at the spell description... And yeah, really wishing I'd had the time to read it fully because it's terrible. It's situationally useful for helping pure-melee characters do full attacks and still get some movement, but that extra movement action only applies during that full attack. Otherwise, it's just a +30 bonus to movement (or double, whichever is lower).

Even my DM (who is also new to Starfinder) thought it was surprisingly weak. He's seriously thinking of downgrading it to being a level 2 spell; but honestly, I'm not sure I'd waste a level 2 spell slot on it 90% of the time.

Not sure what what the idea was creating such a weak spell for a level 3, but yeah, I'll be asking my DM if I can swap it out for slow after our session.

Anyway, is it really this bad? Are we missing some crucial detail? The best we can see is that it is situationally moderately useful, but never good, and definitely never a *strong* spell.i

Any chance it has been errata'd or buffed?

[Driftbourne]

There's no errata for the spell in Starfinder. Of the three versions of the spell Pathfinder 1E is way more powerful than Starfinder or Pathfinder 2E.

[Xenocrat]

It’s a huge mobility enhancer or a damage booster if you were already playing max maneuverability tactics and enhancements. It applies to the whole party. It’s fine.

PF1 is the busted outlier.

[Belafon]

I actually consider it better for melee classes than the PF1 haste (in their respective systems). Even for ranged combatants, it’s quite useful. You can reposition while taking a full attack to get into (or out of) range or to close on an objective. It lets you move (a long distance) and take a full attack. With Starfinder’s more prevelant ranged combat, that’s hugely helpful.

It’s proportionately equivalent because (in general) PF1 full-round attacks have a lot more attacks to start with.

Haste circuit, on the other hand. . .

Spoiler:

Isn’t that good. It takes a swift action to activate. Since in Starfinder a full attack takes up your standard, move, and swift that means you can’t full-attack the round you activate it. Or the round you deactivate it. Meaning if you want to use it three times in a day you’re only getting full benefits for one or two rounds each time and not on the round you flip it on.

[Taja the Barbarian]

Driftbourne wrote:

There's no errata for the spell in Starfinder. Of the three versions of the spell Pathfinder 1E is way more powerful than Starfinder or Pathfinder 2E.

Yet PF1 Haste is still much weaker than the 'Get an extra move action per round, which you can combine with your normal move action to get an extra standard action' D&D3.0 version of Haste...

It's been a steady downward slope for a lot of troublesome D&D3.0 spells...

[Justin Norveg]

I usually introduce myself as "hi Im justin, I'll be your haste spell" because its how I start EVERY fight

haste is kinda meh on a caster. Ok, I fly 30 feet faster and that's it.

To a gunner move 60' shoot shoot or shoot shoot move 60 feet is pretty good. It lets you be around the corner for half the rounds.

To melee, haste is superpounce on steroids. You can move 60+ feet, in any direction , around corners, and full attack people. you can go around corners, you can walk around the bad guy and flank/set up a flank, you can jet pack over their head drop down behind them, and still full attack.

Once there, you can full attack then back out 5 feet, or guarded step in and full attack (meaning you're getting full attacked only half the time you normally would.) You can also dart in whack whack and then next round whack whack and dart out.

To be absolutely brutal, haste your party then slow the bad guys antagonists. Your hasted party can guarded step away from the slow critters. Because starfinder doesn't have a full action charge, the melee monsters can't even move to your party members and attack.. they have to pick one or the other.

[CorvusMask]

More you play starfinder in different types of encounters, more it becomes obvious how useful extra mobility especially with full attacks are :'D

[Arutema]

It's more situational, but many spells are in Starfinder compared to PF 1E.

That said, the ability it grants to move and full attack is a major boost to any melee builds in the party.

[BigNorseWolf]

Arutema wrote:

It's more situational, but many spells are in Starfinder compared to PF 1E.

That said, the ability it grants to move and full attack is a major boost to any melee builds in the party.

The situation for haste is "do you have melee in the party"

[Dragonchess Player]

BigNorseWolf wrote:

Arutema wrote:

It's more situational, but many spells are in Starfinder compared to PF 1E.

That said, the ability it grants to move and full attack is a major boost to any melee builds in the party.

The situation for haste is "do you have melee in the party"

I would say it's more of a "do you have anyone in the party that could benefit from an extra move action or movement distance." This could be melee full attacks + move, ranged full attacks (including special attacks such as firing in automatic mode or using the Fusillade feat) + move, solarian using Blazing Orbit to set up "walls" of fire and then Black Hole to pull enemies through multiple "walls," etc. It's still situational, but it applies to more situations than just melee.

[Taja the Barbarian]

Dragonchess Player wrote:

BigNorseWolf wrote:

Arutema wrote:

It's more situational, but many spells are in Starfinder compared to PF 1E.

That said, the ability it grants to move and full attack is a major boost to any melee builds in the party.

The situation for haste is "do you have melee in the party"

I would say it's more of a "do you have anyone in the party that could benefit from an extra move action or movement distance." This could be melee full attacks + move, ranged full attacks (including special attacks such as firing in automatic mode or using the Fusillade feat) + move, solarian using Blazing Orbit to set up "walls" of fire and then Black Hole to pull enemies through multiple "walls," etc. It's still situational, but it applies to more situations than just melee.

The real question is: Is it worth having one of your party casters sacrifice one of their limited 'spell known' slots on learning it, and a 3rd level spell slot + standard action to actual cast?

Obviously, your mileage will vary based on party composition and individual battle characteristics, but this spell didn't make it onto my personal 'Technomancer spells to consider' list: Our campaign ended at 4th level (it was only a 'summer break' from our Return of the Runelords campaign) so I haven't had a chance to actually put my list to the test, but I personally couldn't see taking Haste as a spell known for a very long time (maybe in the mid-teens?) with all the other options for that slot.

[Metaphysician]

In my campaign, the players pretty much could never have enough movement. There was always the desire to move a little farther to get a more favorable position ( better angle on enemy, more cover ), even aside from the full attack thing. I'd say Haste is still plenty useful, it just requires a little more thought than "Cast, attack twice, win everything".

That said, given how many anecdotes I've heard about Starfinder games where the players *don't* use movement and positioning wisely/at all, I'm not shocked that there are reports of Haste doing nothing. If your usual tactic is "stand in place, make full attacks until someone dies", Haste isn't going to help you.