Warpriest of Calistria
1. Weapon Finesse
1. Weapon Focus
3. Combat Reflexes
3. Whip Mastery
5. Slashing Grace
6. Improved Whip Mastery
7. Wasp Familiar
9. Deific Obedience
9. Greater Whip Mastery
11. Divine Intereference/Quicken Blessing
12. some odd combat feat
13. Divine Intereference/Quicken Blessing
Kensai Magus
1. Weapon Finesse
1. Weapon Focus
3. Whip Mastery
5. Combat Reflexes
5. Slashing Grace
7. Improved Whip Mastery
9.
11. Dazzling Display?
11. Greater Whip Mastery
13. Shatter Defenses?
Unlike the Warpriest, you actually have to wait to meet the BAB prerequisites for the Whip Mastery feats, since Magi don't count their class levels as BAB. Whatever, though, this has an entirely different flavor and playstyle. It's good to have options. If you want heavy armor, be a Warpriest. If you want no armor, be a Kensai Magus.
If you think it's worth it to get Intimidate keyed off your Intelligence [with a trait], then Dazzling Display/Shatter Defenses opens up Iaijutsu Focus adding your Intelligence to damage against flat-footed targets... in addition to your Dexterity from Slashing Grace.
You get Iaijutsu at 7... adding your Dex+Int to Initiative... putting Improved Initiative in that open slot at 9 would essentially guarantee you go first every round.
Just a note.
Slashing Grace won't work when using Spell Combat. You can still take it as a Magus, but it's probably not worth it.
You can just get yourself an Agile Whip. It's another +1 enhancement, so you probably won't have it till level 7 or so, but you'll still be able to add damage through weapon enhancements and spells before then, so it's not the end of the world. Once you get the Agile weapon you're dealing the damage and saving a feat, so problem solved.
The big advantage of the whip is that it's a 1-handed weapon with reach. Sure you have to jump through a lot of hoops for it to be worthwhile , but once you're there it's amazing. As such I'd probably focus on multi-touch spells like FROSTBITE over single-touch spells like SHOCKING GRASP. This would let you make use of your Spellstrike ability on AoOs as well as during your round. The good news is that Frostbite is already a better damage option than Shocking Grasp, if a little less straightforward . It also has a neat trick that works with MAGICAL LINEAGE, and that trick is RIME SPELL, meaning this spell-combo not only out-damages Shocking Grasp, it also adds soe serious debuffs to the enemy. The downside is that Forstbite is non-lethal damage, meaning it won't work on constructs, undead or anything else that can ignore non-lethal damage. For them you'll have to devise some other method of murder ... like hitting them with a weapon.
Another thing worth noting is that the DEX-build with a whip needs a lot of feats, but ends up with like 10 AoOs per round. You 100% don't need 10 AoOs per round, you don't even need 3. If you want to you could make this a STR-build and save yourself a feat and the cost of an agile weapon, and in return you get more damage at low level and you'd still be enough of a threat with your 2-3 AoOs per round. I say this as someone who has played a front-line reach-build in 2 campaigns from level 1 onward and can count on my fingers the number of times I've even had the opportunity to make more than 2 AoOs in a round. It doesn't come up often enough to matter, so if you prefer the STR-build it's totally viable. There are other reasons to go for a DEX-build of course, so I'm not going to tell you that the STR-build is better, just that you can go either way.
I definitely think the DEX-build works for the Warpriest though, they have no reason not to go for Slashing Grace, and as VoodistMonk showed they have excellent feat support. Also the Warpriest's weapon damage will make the whip much better in their hands. There's even a UNIQUE WHIP with Pharasma flavour if you're interested. I don't think you need this weapon by any stretch but it has nice flavour and the unique bonus stuff could come in handy someday ... maybe.
The Scorpion whip? Yeah it's alright. If you're going for Improved Whip Mastery anyway then you don't need a Scorpion whip, but maybe in the early levels it'll get you dealing lethal damage earlier.
Not sure if it interests you but since a whip is a 1 handed slashing weapon it qualifies for the Black Blade of the Bladebound archetype which can stack with Kensai.
Not sure if it interests you but since a whip is a 1 handed slashing weapon it qualifies for the Black Blade of the Bladebound archetype which can stack with Kensai.
This can work, but you can't make a Black Blade an Agile Weapon, and once again you can't use Slashing Grace with Spell Clmbat.
Just to be clear if you did go Slashing Grace it would still work on any attack that isn't a part of Spell Combat , so it wouldn't be a total waste. Also as I mentioned earlier the Magus does have other ways to add damage, so you don't actually NeedDEX-to-damage. It's just that Slashing Grace will be unreliable damage on a Magus.
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A few thoughts on earlier posts, followed by a warpriest build...
my friend thinks there only viable on A fighter so I'd like to try either a Warpriest or a Magus as a Whip user.
Avenger Vigilante. Especially with the Masked Maiden Archetype, the fighter's only real advantages are Weapon Training and d10 vs d8 HP. The vigilante gets more skill ranks, can take any of the same feats the fighter can, has access to unique abilities, and gets some "two-for-one" choices like Signature Weapon and Whip of Vengeance.
Greater Whip Mastery - I don't find this feat particularly useful unless you are really dedicated to a grapple build. It's slightly useful if you are disarming or (more likely) tripping a lot. If you aren't building around doing any of those on a regular basis, don't bother. Whip Mastery and Improved Whip Mastery are essential, though.
Human Warpriest (Molthuni Arsenal Chaplain) of Calistria
1. Weapon Finesse
1. (Class) Weapon Focus: Whip
1. (Human) Two-Weapon Fighting
3. Whip Mastery
3. (Class) Power Attack
5. Combat Reflexes
6. (Class) Advanced Weapon Training Feat - Trained Grace
6. (Class - Human FCB) Weapon Specialization (Whip)
7. Improved Whip Mastery
9. Improved Two-Weapon Fighting
9. (Class) Greater Weapon Focus (Whip)
9. Replace additional Weapon Training with Advanced Weapon Training - Effortless Dual-Wielding
11. Improved Critical (Whip)
12. (Class) Greater Two-Weapon Fighting
12. (Class - Human FCB) Greater Weapon Specialization (Whip)
Initial Stats (20-point buy)
STR 13
DEX 16 +2 = 18
CON 12
INT 10
WIS 14
CHA 10
There's lots of room for customization. You can change your stats if you value things differently than I do. You can delay the Weapon Spec/Greater Weapon Focus feats to get Improved TWF and Improved Crit earlier. Or add in different feat preferences. Or go for a trip build.
@ VoodistMonk
For the Magus.
How should I play Her in battle ?
What spells should I use via spell Strike?Is a scorpion Whip worth it?
Rime Spell Metamagic + Frostbite + Magus with a Whip + Combat Reflexes = Cruise Control for Awesome
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@ Name Violation. How would you recommend I build a Whio Magus?
Truth be told I'm just looking to use a less common weapon than Sword of various types or Axes.
half orc, with the caravan drover trait to make whip a martial weapon. to save a feat.
half orc can take human favored class bonus, +1/4 an arcane pointmaybe blade bound, probably not.
use spell recall to spam true strike + spell combat to basically guarantee a trip (extra +20 really helps)
Found some fun traits if you really want to see how far we can take this...
So, we choose Tiefling as our race. It's the Kyton-Spawn version we are after, which doesn't really go well with Warpriest, but whatever... let's be a Magus. Tieflings have the 1/4 arcane point FCB for Magus, which isn't bad, at all. Anyways, shackleborn Tieflings can take the Chain Master trait for a +2 trait bonus to trip with a whip. That's the same bonus you get from a feat, but with a trait... that stacks with the feat. Our shackleborn Tiefling could be from the "Golden City" in Katapesh, and take the Whip Specialist trait for +1 damage to all attacks with a whip... all of them. Pretty sweet considering a Fighter has to wait four levels before they get anything better, and not everyone can get that... not bad for a trait you can get from a creative backstory.
Tieflings can trade their racial skill bonus for a +1 racial bonus to CMB for Disarm and Steal maneuvers. Might as well trade their racial Sorcerer nonsense for a prehensile tail... goes well with the whole whip thing, me-thinks. If you take a drawback, there's an equipment trait that allows you to also have a prehensile whip for some real Indianna Jones type $#!+.
So we are already sitting at +1 damages and +1 to disarm, as well as +2 to trip with our prehensile whip, and Kensai gives us Weapon Focus at level one for a +1 to all attacks and maneuvers. At this level, you could probably provide adequate combat support simply disarming and tripping enemy combatants. We need to start with Weapon Finesse for obvious reasons.
1. Weapon Finesse
1. Weapon Focus Whip
We have a choice here, but I think it's our highest priority to stop provoking with our whip. Serpent's Lash is good, really good, but it can probably wait.
3. Whip Mastery
Arcana: Maneuver Mastery Trip
We should probably use this opportunity to pick up Serpent's Lash, and Rime Spell. This get's you online for your actual Magus shenanigans, and you can double-tap disarm/trip maneuvers. The potential to get off two maneuvers in the same round a level before full BAB classes get their second attack is pretty legit.
5. Rime Spell
5. Serpent's Lash
Arcana (@6): Arcane Accuracy?
We need to threaten with reach, otherwise, what's the point? BAB +5 is basically as early as anybody can make this happen with a whip, so level 7 is where we grab Improved Whip Mastery. It hurts me to go this long without Combat Reflexes, but what's the point without threatening at reach? Iaijutsu kicks in at this level, anyways, so we can still make AoO in the surprise round and get extra AoO equal to our Intelligence modifier.
7. Improved Whip Mastery
Kensai don't get Arcana at level 9, so you might want to use this feat slot for metamagics, Spell Focus, or Extra Arcana.
I don't really know how far you want to go into the maneuver feats... Serpent's Lash is like Cleave for maneuvers with a whip, but it doesn't actually give you the benefits of the associated maneuver feats. With your racial bonuses and traits, I think your Maneuver Mastery and Arcane Accuracy arcanas will probably be all you need up to this point.
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Found some fun traits if you really want to see how far we can take this...
(lots of good stuff)
kyton spawn is a subrace, which alters the skill bonus.
the cmb bonus replaces skill bonus.
you cant change the same thing twice
Kyton-Spawn (Shackleborn)
Ancestry Kyton
Typical Alignment LE
Ability Modifiers +2 Con, +2 Cha, –2 Wis
Alternate Skill Modifiers Escape Artist, Intimidate
Alternate Spell-Like Ability Shackleborn gain web as a spell-like ability.
Bullying
Tieflings with this racial trait gain a +1 racial bonus on combat maneuver checks to disarm or steal. This racial trait replaces skilled.
Technically a subrace is not an archetype and is therefore not bound by archetype stacking rules. A GM may choose to house rule that they function as archetypes but that would be a house rule not RAW.
I'm not willing to argue, as I don't really care, and this isn't the rules arena...
I thought that they were the same thing, you just use these values in place of those values.
What is the skill bonus called on the alternate races? Wouldn't it still be called Skilled, just apply to different skills? Isn't the SLA still called "Spell-like ability", and just does a different spell?
Taking a Tiefling subrace does not remove a Tiefling's Skilled racial feature... it only changes what skills the Skilled bonus applies to.
Taking a Tiefling subrace does not remove a Tiefling's Ability Score Modifiers racial feature... it only changes what stats the Ability Score Modofiers bonuses apply to.
Taking a Tiefling subrace does not remove a Tiefling's Spell-like Ability racial feature... it only changes what spells the Spell-like Ability has access to.
Kyton-Spawn Tieflings still have Skilled and can still trade Skilled for Bullying... in my opinion.