This is a spoiler-filled resource thread for the fourth volume of the Blood Lords AP, The Ghouls Hunger by Leo Glass and James Jacobs.
Creative Director
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Really interested in any ideas to handle the continuing problem of how to run combat with monsters like wraiths that only deal negative damage. There is an encounter marked as Severe 13, against 6 elite dread wraiths, who have no way to hurt the group. They can’t even hurt any undead NPC witnesses like they are supposed to be doing, for that matter.
I feel like I should just say that they can switch up their damage to force or something when fighting undead, as a simple solution. Does that make sense? Or any other more creative ideas on handling this?
My take: if the PCs are undead, then let them enjoy an encounter that would normally be super scary and easier for them to handle. That's one of the things that really intrigued me about writing this adventure—setting up some encounters to be easy for living and tough for undead PCs, and vice-versa. That said, the strong expectation we had when writing all of these volumes is that most groups are going to play living characters, simply because that's the standard expectation. So the encounters still skew toward challenging living PCs overall.
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Creative Director
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My take: if the PCs are undead, then let them enjoy an encounter that would normally be super scary and easier for them to handle. That's one of the things that really intrigued me about writing this adventure—setting up some encounters to be easy for living and tough for undead PCs, and vice-versa. That said, the strong expectation we had when writing all of these volumes is that most groups are going to play living characters, simply because that's the standard expectation. So the encounters still skew toward challenging living PCs overall.Really interested in any ideas to handle the continuing problem of how to run combat with monsters like wraiths that only deal negative damage. There is an encounter marked as Severe 13, against 6 elite dread wraiths, who have no way to hurt the group. They can’t even hurt any undead NPC witnesses like they are supposed to be doing, for that matter.
I feel like I should just say that they can switch up their damage to force or something when fighting undead, as a simple solution. Does that make sense? Or any other more creative ideas on handling this?
Thanks, I do like the novelty of undead PC’s being able to laugh at the ineffective attacks of wraiths, shadows, etc. But doesn’t the ritual Berline performs at the beginning of Graveclaw mean that living PC’s will be equally unaffected by the attacks?
I’m also trying to understand for how things work in Geb, do wraiths then pose no threat to the mostly undead population? In Graveclaw, Nathnelma has wraith watchers who attack anyone trying to break in, but in a city that’s 81% undead, they seem like a poor choice for her.
Just want to add, we are loving this path. We’re still only halfway through Zombie Feast, but I am eagerly buying each new chapter to help plant seeds that will eventually tie the group’s backstory into the plot.
My knowledge of this Adventure Path is pretty much just contained to book four; that's the only one I wrote. I didn't develop any of them, so I don't really have insights into complications in other adventures beyond the generalized "If you play a character that's far from the expected norm, the GM will need to make adjustments." Same for if you have a player who plays, say, a Large PC. The GM will need to adjust things like door sizes and dungeon hall widths, probably. Same for if you have a player who plays, say, a PC who lacks arms and legs; you'd need to make decisions on how certain magic items that assume limbs could be replaced or made useful. Same for an undead PC, really. I did what I could in "The Ghouls Hunger" to address some of these potential issues, but that input is, by the nature of my participation in the project, limited to that one adventure.
But my main advice stands. If you have undead PCs and that makes encounters easier for them... that's kind of part of the attraction to playing an undead in this Adventure Path, I guess?
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Creative Director
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How was Ragrathax able to depose Yurgak? Yurgak is higher-level and can cast more powerful spells, and both their attacks are +27.
Through a combination of luck, surprise, and tenacity. Ragrathax made fewer mistakes than Yurgak, in other words. One may be one level higher than the other, but none of that really matters for the context of events that happen off-screen, as long as (as is this case) they're not THAT far off in level. And in the end, it's a story/narative element that happened in the background of the adventure, not something that directly faces the PCs and gives them a chance to interact with.
We're always battling the wordcount in adventures. While I try to put a lot of context in to each adventure I write, I do tend to skew the wordcount in favor to things that directly impact the parts where the PCs interact. Since this particular element is historical, I glossed over all the details of how it all went down in favor of focusing those words elsewhere.
If the PCs in your group manage to strike up conversations with either, feel free to present Ragrathax as arrogant and full of the conviction that they can't be defeated, and portray Yurgak as shocked and perhaps unsure of their capabilities after an unexpected defeat.
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That works for living PC's, but my whole party is undead already from character creation. I guess replacing the damage to cold or something is the best solution for this situationIts very obvious yeah that none of other writers were consulted that book 2 sneaked in plot ritual that gives negative healing for year :'D
So removing it from ap is probably just straight up better for the experience
Nah, I think in undead party case you should just let them enjoy their undead benefits
Nice call, depending on what the party make up that is.
Tom
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That works for living PC's, but my whole party is undead already from character creation. I guess replacing the damage to cold or something is the best solution for this situationIts very obvious yeah that none of other writers were consulted that book 2 sneaked in plot ritual that gives negative healing for year :'D
So removing it from ap is probably just straight up better for the experience
I run for 2 grps, and my parties are also fully negative healing, mostly cause they're mostly undead, it feels like a massive copout to just have some encounters be bypassable cause the PCs have negative healing, changing dmg types is way better, but janky
the strong expectation we had when writing all of these volumes is that most groups are going to play living characters, simply because that's the standard expectation
this hasn't been born out by my experience at all, where 7/8 of the PCs accross my 2 grps are undead, and the remaining is a dhampir, they didn't even need the ritual to get neg healing! i've heard of other grps like the above mentioned, that are similar, and with the ritual, most parties will likely be fully neg healing!
lots of encounters are either ignorable, or much much easier if you don't change the dmg type from negative - like the wraiths, the PCs can just ignore em altogether if they have neg healing| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
on another topic the rotbomber has this strike
"necrotic pustule +26 (negative, range increment 60 feet, splash),
Damage 3d10+14 bludgeoning and negative damage plus necrotic rot"
are undead immune to it completely? does it do the whole dmg as splash?
relevant passive ability, "Propulsive Pestilence The pressurized necrotic gases within the rotbomber’s pustules make them explode far more dramatically than most alchemists’ bombs. The rotbomber’s necrotic pustules deal splash damage to every creature within 15 feet of the target."
my undead PCs also won't really be affected by necrotic rot either
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I honestly thought this AP would have been primarily written with undead PCs in mind, given how all the undead PC options were introduced right before it came out, and how the majority of Geb’s population is undead.
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Creative Director
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I honestly thought this AP would have been primarily written with undead PCs in mind, given how all the undead PC options were introduced right before it came out, and how the majority of Geb’s population is undead.
That element was something we considered, but in the end we realized that even though playing as undead characters was likely to be seen as an exciting new option, and that a lot of folks would be intrigued by it, the reality is that the vast majority of those who play Pathfinder will be playing with Core Rulebook options.
Likewise, this Adventure Path would have worked VERY well as one where all the players were expected to play evil characters—possibly even better than Hell's Vengeance. But again—most folks don't play that way.
So we decided to make Blood Lords "undead character appropriate" and "evil character appropriate" without making either of those deviations from the core assumption a requirement.
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Creative Director
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on another topic the rotbomber has this strike
"necrotic pustule +26 (negative, range increment 60 feet, splash),
Damage 3d10+14 bludgeoning and negative damage plus necrotic rot"are undead immune to it completely? does it do the whole dmg as splash?
relevant passive ability, "Propulsive Pestilence The pressurized necrotic gases within the rotbomber’s pustules make them explode far more dramatically than most alchemists’ bombs. The rotbomber’s necrotic pustules deal splash damage to every creature within 15 feet of the target."
my undead PCs also won't really be affected by necrotic rot either
I didn't create these critters (but I was happy to use them in the adventure I wrote), but looking at the way that pustule damage is worded, it feels like it's trying to be a half and half thing. So... an undead creature would certainly be hurt by the bludgeoning half of the damage combo, in that interpretation.
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on another topic the rotbomber has this strike
"necrotic pustule +26 (negative, range increment 60 feet, splash),
Damage 3d10+14 bludgeoning and negative damage plus necrotic rot"are undead immune to it completely? does it do the whole dmg as splash?
relevant passive ability, "Propulsive Pestilence The pressurized necrotic gases within the rotbomber’s pustules make them explode far more dramatically than most alchemists’ bombs. The rotbomber’s necrotic pustules deal splash damage to every creature within 15 feet of the target."
my undead PCs also won't really be affected by necrotic rot either
"some complex effects might have parts that affect you even if you're immune to one of the effect's traits; for instance, a spell that deals both fire and acid damage can still deal acid damage to you even if you're immune to fire."
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Likewise, this Adventure Path would have worked VERY well as one where all the players were expected to play evil characters—possibly even better than Hell's Vengeance. But again—most folks don't play that way.
Honestly, I love you guys, but this is quite silly. Pathfinder society doesn’t allow evil characters, and most APs strongly advise against evil characters, and so most people don’t play evil characters. This isn’t really evidence that no one wants to play evil characters
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Honestly, I’m getting tired of the whole “here’s a new place for you to live… oh wait, before you can live there, it’s actually a dungeon you need to clear out” design trope. I feel like it’s come up in every adventure path I’ve run lately, and it happens TWICE in Blood Lords.
Has anyone figured out how much time to give the PCs for the downtime activities in the back on this book? It mentions each one takes a few months and to give them a chance between chapters to partake in the downtime activities... But... how many months do they have between chapters roughly?
"Investigating the Neighbors", page 16/17, says that on a Critical Failure, players gain the same information they would on a success, "but as if the NPC were of a level that is 3 levels below their actual level." But the entry for Success, it only says that PCs confirm the NPCs in question work for Hyrune and what their specialties are. There's nothing on any of them about their level.