Can you use Create Undead (Juju Zombies) as a trigger spell?
Asking because it does require another spell (Energy Drain). Can that work?
|
Can you use Create Undead (Juju Zombies) as a trigger spell?
Asking because it does require another spell (Energy Drain). Can that work?
Are you trying to turn yourself into a Juju Zombie?
I'm not seeing any 'PC' rules for creating such a zombie in PF1:
Create Undead doesn't list JuJu Zombies as an option.
Energy Drain makes no mention of Juju Zombies.
Juju Zombie itself only includes the 'template' rules for the GM.
Or are you referring to something from a third party source?
Yes; Juju would be a way to have my necromancer keep all levels with low impact. (After death: natural or not.)
as per spell: https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/c/create-undead/
Requires level 11 and Energy drain (so 2 spells)
Contingency triggers only one spell...so I dunno. Would it work or requires a second casting of Contingency?
|
|
Yes; Juju would be a way to have my necromancer keep all levels with low impact.
as per spell: https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/c/create-undead/
Requires level 11 and Energy drain (so 2 spells)
That site is not the official repository for PF and tends to have issues: Offhand, I'd guess the version presented there might actually be D&D3.x instead of PF (or maybe a mix of 1st and 3rd party rules put together on one page with no distinction between them)?
Or maybe there is something not coming up in the archives when I search for 'juju'.
In any case, transforming yourself into an undead is firmly in the 'Ask Your GM' bucket as this isn't really intended for player characters...
The closest thing probably is Deadman's Contingency from Ultimate Intrigue that can raise your corpse as mindless zombie or skeleton.
|
Mystery juju(PAP39/PZO9039) 5
Pathfinder #39: The City of Seven Spears pg. 68, printed in 2009, has the Spirit Vessel ability, that cite Juju Zombies.
Spirit Vessels (Su): You can channel wendo spirits into lifeless bodies, reanimating them to aid you. When using the animate dead spell, you can control 6 HD worth of undead creatures per caster level rather than 4 HD. In addition, any zombies or juju zombies you create using animate dead, create undead, or similar spells possess maximum hit points.
Faiths and Philosophies pg. 14, printed in 2012 hasn't it. As it is a late product it supersedes the previous version.
Juju Zombies being created by Energy Drain was in the 2nd edition description of the monster. Searching AoN for spells with the world juju I don't find anything and the moster description doesn't say how it is created.
Searching for monsters, the Vrolikai Demon has:
Death-Stealing Gaze (Su) 1 permanent negative level, 30 ft., Fort DC 27 negates. Creatures slain by these negative levels become juju zombies under the vrolikai’s control. The save DC is Charisma-based.
A few other creatures can create them, but they don't use energy drain.
So, D20 is using a mix of previous editions rules and outdated Pathfinder rules, as Taja said.
For a home game, you should speak to your GM, I would require a had hoc ritual.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
This would be for an evil campaign of course.
If I refer to the official site there is very few undead listed, but 'Create Undead' seems appropriate.
IIRC Bestiary used to include an 'how to create' spell list under a new undead description? I guess this was not done.
|
|
This would be for an evil campaign of course.
If I refer to the official site there is very few undead listed, but 'Create Undead' seems appropriate.
IIRC Bestiary used to include an 'how to create' spell list under a new undead description? I guess this was not done.
Some have it, mostly the templates.
so.. why not just have the contingency cast raise dead, and then keep some scrolls/wands of greater restoration around?
Mythic Contingency lets you activate multiple spells on yourself, but Energy Drain is always a 9th level spell, so cannot be used with Contingency, as the limit is 6th level spells.
so the main problem is the Contingency spell does not have Spellcraft and thus cannot identify spells. So using a specific spell as a trigger for contingency won't work. Something like "when I'm at 12 hit points" also won't work.
Allowed triggers is very much debateable, and really seems to in the GM decision territory.
The conditions needed to bring the spell into effect must be clear, although they can be general.
A condition of "If someone casts spell X within 30' of me" is certainly a clear instruction, and so does not break what little rules we have on the allowed triggers.
Personally I require that triggers must be something the caster would be able to reasonably observe. eg, I would not allow "Cast invisibility purge if something invisible gets within 50' of me". But I would allow auto casting invisibility purge on a condition of the caster recognizing that there is something invisible in the area - no active action required by the contingency user. And I would certainly allow it triggering from a specific spell being cast in the casters presence - regardless of a successful or failed spellcraft check by the contingency caster.
Conversely I would not allow a contingency on a specific hit point number, but I would permit general statements about health . "Wounded" < less than max HP. "Near death" = within 5 HP of unconscious, etc.
Thanks for the feedback guys.
There is no metagame obstacle from the GM about becoming an undead BTW.
The source for the Mystery juju Zombie(PAP39/PZO9039) is Pathfinder Adventure Path #39: City of Seven Spears.
The game allows any Paizo material so that's ok.
But I guess if creating a Juju requires a second spell this implies a second Contigency for Enervation (the alternate spell; possible because level 4).
Like "If I die; cast Create undead" and "If I die cast Enervation" works if one assumes no custom spell-weaving.
|
|
Thanks for the feedback guys.
There is no metagame obstacle from the GM about becoming an undead BTW.The source for the Mystery juju Zombie(PAP39/PZO9039) is Pathfinder Adventure Path #39: City of Seven Spears.
The game allows any Paizo material so that's ok.But I guess if creating a Juju requires a second spell this implies a second Contigency for Enervation (the alternate spell; possible because level 4).
Like "If I die; cast Create undead" and "If I die cast Enervation" works if one assumes no custom spell-weaving.
It looks like Pathfinder #39: The City of Seven Spears introduced the Juju Mystery for Oracles, which is not really connected to the 'Zombie' template of the same name ('Juju' is 'a spiritual belief system incorporating objects, such as amulets, and spells used in religious practice in West Africa' so the term encompasses far more than just a single type of undead).
|
|
It looks like Pathfinder #39: The City of Seven Spears introduced the Juju Mystery for Oracles, which is not really connected to the 'Zombie' template of the same name ('Juju' is 'a spiritual belief system incorporating objects, such as amulets, and spells used in religious practice in West Africa' so the term encompasses far more than just a single type of undead).Except that it was originally far more related to controlling undead and making them. For some reason, AoN only shows the reprinted version, but the other version was far different originally, similar to how Pact Wizard was completely different in its reprint.
AoN shows only the more recent version because it replaces the older version. It isn't an alternative version, the more recent version is the Paizo official version.
Paizo official policy is that more recent versions of a class, ability, spell, mystery, etc. replace older versions.
Which version of Juju mystery is in use is a side issue, as even the older one doesn't grant any way to make juju zombies.
City of Seven Spears allows oracles with the juju mystery to create juju zombies - but only with the Create Undead spell.
I guess d20PFSRD's text comes from "In addition, any zombies or juju zombies you create using animate dead, create undead, or similar
spells possess maximum hit points." in the same book. With sloppy or wishful reading you end up with juju zombies via Animate Dead...
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Okay, finally found the reference in CoSS, that still doesn't explain where d20pfsrd got the info they list for making juju zombies (juju oracles don't need enervarion/energy drain and don't have the caster level requirements). Also pretty hard to get contingency and 5th level oracles on the same character.
If you're evil, why go through all this trouble of killing yourself and raising yourself as a Juju Zombie? Just become a Lich?
There isn't a lot of guidance for GM's about how a player turns into a Lich, but there are *some* resources:
An integral part of becoming a lich is the creation of the phylactery in which the character stores his soul. The only way to get rid of a lich for sure is to destroy its phylactery. Unless its phylactery is located and destroyed, a lich can rejuvenate after it is killed.
Each lich must create its own phylactery by using the Craft Wondrous Item feat. The character must be able to cast spells and have a caster level of 11th or higher. The phylactery costs 120,000 gp to create and has a caster level equal to that of its creator at the time of creation.
The most common form of phylactery is a sealed metal box containing strips of parchment on which magical phrases have been transcribed. The box is Tiny and has 40 hit points, hardness 20, and a break DC of 40.
Other forms of phylacteries can exist, such as rings, amulets, or similar items.
Lich Corruption <--- here's all the bad stuff that can happen to you if you don't perform the Lich Rite correctly
=============================================
I've only ever had one player become a Lich, and she (gravewalker witch/juju oracle) told me she wanted to before the campaign started. So she ended up getting an amulet around level 2-3 from this creepy voodoo salesman, and this gave her a +1 to Necromancy Spell DC's, but it was actually a "necromantic spell chronologuer" that would count and judge the times she uses Necromancy spells, as well as chronicling her "necromantic exploits" and "necromantic feats performed". Anywho, around level 11-12ish, they met a level 28 wizard because they needed help finding a specific demiplane on the astral plane, but he knew what the amulet was and he asked her about it. The wizard ended up "speaking" with the amulet, and it told him "she is ready for transformation". So the Wizard went to his library, found his book on lich transformation, gave them a short list of reagents they needed and spend 120,000g on "Dust of the Damned" for the phylactery creation portion of the ritual. So the PC's went on a few side quests to find the reagents for the spell (one of them was particularly hard to get <--- and this was really cool, the whole party felt a sense of accomplishment when she turned into a lich), and they returned to the wizard. The PC's and the Wizard set everything up, performed the ritual, and during the ritual the amulet became "awakened" and spoke on the witch/oracle's behalf of her noteworthy deeds and why she should be allowed to become a lich, and she chose her phylactery as a dagger she really liked, so the Dust of the Damned swirled around the whole place and dispersed into magical energy and entered the dagger. Once the ritual was complete, the warmth of her skin had already become visibly changed and her skin began to tighten and take on a more feral visage. The whole lichdom "transformation" took 1 week where she had something called "Lich sickness" while her body was evolving into undeath, and during that time she was making daily fortitude checks or be shaken/sickened/fatigued/exhausted/etc for the day. Once the "lich sickness" week was over, she was a full lich with no penalties.