A proposed simplification - accuracy, class DC, damage, KAS CON justification, and last but not least - class flavour

[NotEspi]

So I gave the playtest class features some thought. And I asked myself - what defines a kineticist as a class?

When coming up with an answer, I went back to the 1e version and tried to go over it a few times. Then I compared it to the playtest proposed version a few times. And this is what I came up with. Modularity, and the burn mechanic.

The modularity part is partially solved by class feats, although it needs more looking into. Specifically when talking about Elemental Blasts, not Impulses. More on that later.

Burn - a kineticist is attempting to be a conduit to energy from the elemental planes (I miss you, Aether), but they find themselves hard to control this torrent of energy. And this is where the burn comes in. Yes, I said it. Burn, as the mechanic was named in 1e represents their failure to control. Them overestimating their abilities, and getting burned (pun not intended) as a result of their hubris. And so I have a few suggestions how to return back to the roots of the class - both mechanically, and thematically. So here's what I got so far.

--------------------------------------------------------------

ELEMENTAL BLAST (1 action)

We have 4 elements in the playtest doc. Out of those four, there are 3 dice that are used. Each element has a melee and ranged version, and they all use different traits. Why? If you wanted a simplified version, why use a different damage die for (almost) every element.

Here's what I propose. Dice used become unified based on ... Inner Gates like so:

Dedicated Gate - Base blast damage is 2d4 + Constitution Modifier
Dual Gate - Base blast damage is 1d8 + Constitution Modifier
Universal Gate - Base blast dice is 1d6 + Constitution Modifier

To achieve some scaling, the numbers will increase by the same amount of dice at 5th, 9th, 13th, and 17th. So Dedicated will have 4d4 + CON at level 5, Dual will have 3d8 + CON at level 9, Universal will have 4d6 + CON at level 13, and so on and so forth. The levels might get tweaked, but you get the gist. I did not run the numbers, it was just a thought experiment.

Why these dice? It's set up like this to give a little leverage to dedicated gates, since they won't have the versatility of universal. So we might as well give them a LITTLE damage. It's not much. The averages are Universal 3.5, Dual 4.5, Dedicated 5. Just a little nudge, there.

And here's the kicker. All of these 'simple' Blasts will get a range increment of 60ft, and the Fatal d8 trait.

Meaning, crits will advantage Dedicated gates, since they will esseitially have their damage further amplified by the fact that they roll double the amount of dice. So crits will matter to dedicated, and this will also help them with creatures that have resistances to their specific element, if hey have nothing else to fall back on.

I might need to look into immunities on that as well, but there's the Extract Element to help with that. Which, honestly, I think is a pretty good action to deal with this problem.

Speaking of crits ... Did I tell you about the effect I made up for critical failures on blasts? This is also where the 'burn' comes into play.

The blast action will have the following critical failure.

Quote:

Discharge

You lose control of the pure elemental matter charged. The charged element wreaks havoc on your surroundings a radius of 15 ft centered on you. The damage is equal to the damage of the prevented blast, and can be reduced by a saving throw that could be applied to the intended blast. If no saving throw is available, use a Reflex saving throw equal to your class DC.

I intended this to be triggered by mutiple things. Since charing (manipulate an element - more on that later) and impulse feats all manipulate trait, they provoke AoO. It's not that often that it happens, but it can happen, and I wanted to make use of that. So - if you critically fail a blast attack, if you take damage while charging (gathering element), or firing off an impulse. You trigger a Discharge event.

Now, you CAN prevent this, by a simple, 50-50 flat DC 11 check.

But if you fail that check, the class gets a reaction at level 1:

Quote:

Control Discharge (reaction)

You trigger a Discharge event

You overestimated your ability and lost control of the charged element. You can, however, still attempt to reduce collateral damage to your surroundings.

Choose a number of creatures, items, and/or 5ft squares that will not be affected by Discharge. This number can not be higher than your Constitution modifier. The selected creatures, items, or squares will not be damaged by Discharge. You can not pick yourself or the square(s) you are standing on.

Alright, so we tried to put some balance into the gates, and we got a little burn mechanic going.

So now we have justification to use Constitution as KAS. Cool.

What about accuracy? I plan to have a subclass option running parallel to Inner Gates to fix the problem. I present to you... Discipline class feature.

You pick this at first level, and can not change. There are three stages.

Quote:

Discipline

Control - You get increased attack proficiency with unarmed attacks by 1 step, and reduced proficiency of Kineticist class DC rank by 1 step, to a minimum of trained. You do not need to gather element to strike with a blast, but all Impulse Feats take 1 more action. Reaction impulses require you to have an appropriate gathered element in hand.

Balance - This is the default state as presented in the playtest document.

Potency - You get increased proficiency of Kineticist class DC rank by 1 step, but reduce attack proficiency with unarmed attacks by 1 step, to a minimum of trained. Impulse Feats cost 1 less action (minimum 1).

So this is where we get to ACCURACY and CLASS DC.

Since Kineticist has CON as their key ability, we can not raise strength or dexterity to 18 at level 1. Meaning we will often have that -1 to strikes/attacks.

So we use the Control discipline to get expert at level 1 (much like gunslinger with firearms, since elemental blasts are unique to kineticist). So we are better with firing elemental blasts compared to pretty much everyone else except gunslinger using a firearm and a fighter using- well, anything.

On the other hand, we have an increased Kineticis class DC, which is not really lowered (since we are probably getting 18 Constitution either way), but it balances out the fact that we suck at blasting starting at 7th ( or 5th, if the expertise is an error ) level. So a Potency Kineticist will be using those AoE Impulses that will mop the floor with low-save mooks.

[NotEspi]

So the situation is a win-win, while maintaining balance in all things. Thanos would be proud.

Right - what do we have so far?

ACCURACY
CLASS DC
DAMAGE
KAS CON JUSTIFICATION
CLASS FLAVOUR

I think I covered all of those?

Accuracy and Class DC - Discipline switch
Damage and Simplification - Damage dice linked to gates and lethal d8
CON as Key ability and Class Floavour - Discharge

Simplification - yeah, that's what I wanted.

So - I will not touch too much on impulses, since there are supposed to be a lot more, but I will touch up on blasts. And *gasp* metamagic.

So to give kineticist that little CONTROL over their chosen element, I propose they get metamagic feats every few levels. Metamagic specific to the class. Since basic elemental blast is a 1 action spell, we can use metamagic class feats to spice them up a bit. You know, like extended range for x additional actions, change direction/bouncing/chaining blast for x additional actions before the blast itself. Remember 1e kineticist?

So yeah, mechanically, it's the same. But instead of spending a move/standard/full-round action to 'Gather Power', we spend one or more of our 3 actions to metamagic our next blast. This limits the blast to have an amount of metamagic depending on the specific metamagic feat.

We could even add a class feature that could either lower the amount of actions required for feats below a certain level, or add a free action to once per turn to apply a metamagic feat. This would be mechanically similar to 1e Kineticist's 'Infusion Specialisation'.

It could even be scaling. First free action at level 6, second free action at level 12, etc.

But what if you want to use more? Well, we can make a system that allows you to do that. With help of the Discharge event (see previous post). You want to use more? Sure, go on and try it. But you will roll a flat DC 16 check. 25% success. You fail? Discharge. You succeed? Add 1 more, sure.

So now we have justification for a boatload of con, a nice high risk / reward mechanic in play. Flavour preserved.

Now - why did I not use the Drained condition for burn. I saw people throw it around a lot.

Drained is already an existing condition in the game, and has a specific condition to get rid of.

Quote:

Each time you get a full night’s rest, your drained value decreases by 1

For purposes of simplification, I simply chose not to use drained, simply because people would go nova and get drained condition until full unconsciousness, and wake up on the next day with drained x-1 (x being the PCs level), and have little to nothing to use.

But NotEspi, you can just differentiate between regular drained and kineticist drained, and clear kineticist drained fully after a full rest!

Yeah, no. I'm not tracking that. 2nd edition is balanced around the party fully healing after each encounter. Hence I chose Discharge as something that can damage your HP and drop you unconscious, but not give you conditions that would give you weeks worth of RnR before you can go back into action. Remember that you also have the Elemental Immunity class feature in 2e, so that mitigates the damage to you, even if maybe just a little.

So yeah. My two cents. Or a quarter? I don't know. But I would love to hear your opinions and discuss it.

Let's make 2e kineticist the best it can be. And it will be quite the challenge. I love my 1e blasters.

[roquepo]

I like a bit the idea of Blasts doing more damage for Single element than dual and universalist, but I think a flat bonus would be better than changing damage die like that, honestly. Maybe +1 at level 4-5 and +2 later on for dual and 1 per damage die for Single would work. There is nothing wrong with elemental blasts from different elements having different damage and traits.

The rest, I'm not on board with it. Discharge seems like a pain, honestly and Discipline is a bad fix. The class can perfectly fit master in attacks and legendary Class DC. Even with that, offensive save impulses would need some extra help.

[Martialmasters]

I don't see the value in completely redesigning how the class works simply because it shows zero faith in the designers who put together this playtest.

I'm in greater favor on how to adjust what we have to a more favorable position for most players.

I like the greater identity that comes with the different elements. Rather than a homogenized strike with different elements.

I think dedicated gate just needs a reliable method of overcoming resistances and immunities. Extract might be enough, I'm not sure. And it definitely needs better class feats for it. Or I'm greatly undervaluing what they do currently.

[YuriP]

Martialmasters wrote:

I think dedicated gate just needs a reliable method of overcoming resistances and immunities. Extract might be enough, I'm not sure. And it definitely needs better class feats for it. Or I'm greatly undervaluing what they do currently.

Overcoming immunities is something bit difficult to do based how PF2 works.

Overcoming resistances just solve a problem of Dedicated Gate but does little to compensate in the access to other elemental feats. In practice is simple to see:

At level 1:
Air:

AERIAL BOOMERANG

AIR CUSHION

FAIR WINDS

WHISPER ON THE WIND

Earth:

GEOLOGIC ATTUNEMENT

STEPPING STONES

STONE SHIELD

TREMOR

Fire:

BURNING JET

ETERNAL TORCH

FLAME ERUPTION

WARMING NIMBUS

Water:

DEFLECTING WAVE

TIDAL HANDS

WATER DANCE

WINTER’S CLUTCH

So for example I like Deflecting Wave dnd Tidal Hands but I don't like the other 2 water Impulses so much. What's justify I'm not take a dual gate? If keep in Dedicated will only allow me to avoid some resistances why do I will not take dual or universal gate and allow me to have access to more damage type, more Impulse options just to gain a extra lvl 1 feat that I don't valorize more than a feat from another element specially of high level that I could buy later?

The Dedication Gate need more than just ignore some resistances it needs something that compensate the player to sacrifice the access to other element feats.

[Martialmasters]

YuriP wrote:

Martialmasters wrote:

I think dedicated gate just needs a reliable method of overcoming resistances and immunities. Extract might be enough, I'm not sure. And it definitely needs better class feats for it. Or I'm greatly undervaluing what they do currently.

Overcoming immunities is something bit difficult to do based how PF2 works.

Overcoming resistances just solve a problem of Dedicated Gate but does little to compensate in the access to other elemental feats. In practice is simple to see:

At level 1:
Air:

AERIAL BOOMERANG

AIR CUSHION

FAIR WINDS

WHISPER ON THE WIND

Earth:

GEOLOGIC ATTUNEMENT

STEPPING STONES

STONE SHIELD

TREMOR

Fire:

BURNING JET

ETERNAL TORCH

FLAME ERUPTION

WARMING NIMBUS

Water:

DEFLECTING WAVE

TIDAL HANDS

WATER DANCE

WINTER’S CLUTCH

So for example I like Deflecting Wave dnd Tidal Hands but I don't like the other 2 water Impulses so much. What's justify I'm not take a dual gate? If keep in Dedicated will only allow me to avoid some resistances why do I will not take dual or universal gate and allow me to have access to more damage type, more Impulse options just to gain a extra lvl 1 feat that I don't valorize more than a feat from another element specially of high level that I could buy later?

The Dedication Gate need more than just ignore some resistances it needs something that compensate the player to sacrifice the access to other element feats.

But what? Just more damage is not the right call. Able to do more with their element sounds better.

And as I said, extract element might be enough. Because even if they succeed at the save it only cost you one action and you still gathered an element and removed their resistance or turned their immunity into resistance.

That's... Pretty darn good.

[YuriP]

May just allow that the 3 extra Impulse feats don't have the level 1 restriction and allow they be changed when level up (just like spontaneous spellcasters do to their spells) this maybe be enough to justify. Access to 3 additional Impulse feat of any level is a very good benefit to justify a Dedicated Gate.

[Invictus Fatum]

I dont like the idea of crit failing causing damage in a 15ft burst. Aside from that being huge, it is also unintended pvp damage and thus would make it nearly unplayable in Societ play.

[NotEspi]

roquepo wrote:

I like a bit the idea of Blasts doing more damage for Single element than dual and universalist, but I think a flat bonus would be better than changing damage die like that, honestly. Maybe +1 at level 4-5 and +2 later on for dual and 1 per damage die for Single would work. There is nothing wrong with elemental blasts from different elements having different damage and traits.

This is already baked in the class, however. Weapon Specialisation and Greater Weapon Specialisation does that.

roquepo wrote:

The rest, I'm not on board with it. Discharge seems like a pain, honestly and Discipline is a bad fix.

Invictus Fatum wrote:

I dont like the idea of crit failing causing damage in a 15ft burst. Aside from that being huge, it is also unintended pvp damage and thus would make it nearly unplayable in Societ play.

That is why I added two layers of mitigation. Three if you count the initial trigger for a discharge event.

1 - it needs to trigger (crit fail, or taking damage while manipulating elements - note this is during your turn, so pretty much trigger reactions only)

2 - 50/50 DC 11 flat check

3 - if you still have a reaction, and I assume you will have a reaction during your own turn, you can pick 4+ creatures that will not take damage. You yourself will have resistance and evasion / freater juggernaut. I only see two will saves in the playtest doc. And both are for visual or auditory illusions you create, so that's a non-issue. At least sofar.

I am open to other suggestions on how to represent the 'struggling to keep the elemental powers under your control' aspect of kineticist. Unless Paizo does not want that in this iteration of the class. Their call.

roquepo wrote:

The class can perfectly fit master in attacks and legendary Class DC. Even with that, offensive save impulses would need some extra help.

Yes, if you can attack from constitution. There are many abilities in the game that only add +1 bonus to attacks, and are considered strong. With the 4 stages of success system we have, I am inclined to agree. Do you really think the -1 to attacks (because you can't attack with CON - your key ability) will be the exception?

Martialmasters wrote:

I like the greater identity that comes with the different elements. Rather than a homogenized strike with different elements.

I think dedicated gate just needs a reliable method of overcoming resistances and immunities.

I specifically said that I am in favour of different elements having different traits based on specific elements, and that it is a work in progress.

Correction. I apologise. This was not stated, but it was in the original document I wrote. I removed it due to character limit.

But it is on the table for me.

Martialmasters wrote:

I don't see the value in completely redesigning how the class works simply because it shows zero faith in the designers who put together this playtest.

I'm in greater favor on how to adjust what we have to a more favorable position for most players.

I did not redesign the class?

- changed blast dice with the intention of balancing the dedicated/dual/universal gate system.

- added Discharge and a mechanic that mitigates it to add something that represents, 'burn'.

- propoed a second subclass system that can (doesn't force) the players to specialise their characters based on what they want to do. Choosing whether they want to focus on the blast portion or the impulse portion of the class.

- proposed using metamagic (an existing system in the game) to shape and customise your blasts depending on what you like or don't.

My intention was not to show distrust or lack of faith in people that designed the playtest. But it is my understanding that this is what the playtest is for? To look at the class, discuss possible problems, propose solutions and changes? Is that not the point of a playtest?

[tytalan]

I like the discipline ideal tho I only think you need 2 control and potency. I don’t think blast damage needs increasing since potency runes are effective. I also think the control discipline need medium armor but I actually don’t think you need anything other the what you’ve given in disciplines. I also think only those impulses with the overflow trait should get the action decrease

[NotEspi]

tytalan wrote:

I like the discipline ideal tho I only think you need 2 control and potency.

I left the original there in case someone doesn't want to specialise. I am sure there will be people that would like that as well.

Quote:

I don’t think blast damage needs increasing since potency runes are effective.

I will have do disagree here. A +3 major striking handwraps will bring your basic elemental blast damage to 4dx plus whatever damage bonuses you might have. In the case of Mastery (level 15), we are talking about 6 + 6 (greater weapon specialisation + str 22) at level 20. Depending on what element you use, it's either 22, 26, or 30 average damage. A swashbuckler that did spend an action to get panache and land a finisher can do that at level 3 after they get their first striking rune.

Elemental blast damage (the single action one) does not scale. Impulse damage scales with levels, yes. Blast does not.

Quote:

I also think the control discipline need medium armor but I actually don’t think you need anything other the what you’ve given in disciplines.

Armor prof can be gained. But the purpose of those action saving buffs is - well, greasing up the action econonomy. You will want to move, eventually. Or do a 3rd action.

Quote:

I also think only those impulses with the overflow trait should get the action decrease

Don't think that will help anything, since you can't use another overflow impulse on the same round. There might be cases where it could be useful. Like pre-gathering for your next round, but why not have a blanket condition for it? At least you won't have to be looking up individual impulses to double check whether it applies.

[tytalan]

NotEspi wrote:

tytalan wrote:

I like the discipline ideal tho I only think you need 2 control and potency.

I left the original there in case someone doesn't want to specialise. I am sure there will be people that would like that as well.

Quote:

I don’t think blast damage needs increasing since potency runes are effective.

I will have do disagree here. A +3 major striking handwraps will bring your basic elemental blast damage to 4dx plus whatever damage bonuses you might have. In the case of Mastery (level 15), we are talking about 6 + 6 (greater weapon specialisation + str 22) at level 20. Depending on what element you use, it's either 22, 26, or 30 average damage. A swashbuckler that did spend an action to get panache and land a finisher can do that at level 3 after they get their first striking rune.

Elemental blast damage (the single action one) does not scale. Impulse damage scales with levels, yes. Blast does not.

Quote:

I also think the control discipline need medium armor but I actually don’t think you need anything other the what you’ve given in disciplines.

Armor prof can be gained. But the purpose of those action saving buffs is - well, greasing up the action econonomy. You will want to move, eventually. Or do a 3rd action.

Quote:

I also think only those impulses with the overflow trait should get the action decrease

Don't think that will help anything, since you can't use another overflow impulse on the same round. There might be cases where it could be useful. Like pre-gathering for your next round, but why not have a blanket condition for it? At least you won't have to be looking up individual impulses to double check whether it applies.

Except in the example of the swashbuckler you use a action to get panache and than you use the finisher you can’t use a action with the attack trait. With elemental blast you just attacking 2-3 times. The swashbuckler is a bad example your closer to a monk. A Monks damage doesn’t scale either

[NotEspi]

tytalan wrote:

Except in the example of the swashbuckler you use a action to get panache and than you use the finisher you can’t use a action with the attack trait. With elemental blast you just attacking 2-3 times. The swashbuckler is a bad example your closer to a monk. A Monks damage doesn’t...

While that is true, I was pointing out that, the way the class is written now - a level 3 martial with an item worth 100 gp can do damage comparable to a level 20 kineticist with an approx 30000 gp worth handwraps. With two actions.

If that doesn't showcase that the one action elemental blast needs adjustments,I am not sure what will.

As for attacking 3 times in a turn (with the control discipline as per my first post), yes, it wouldbe possible. But MAP applies, so probably not advisable.

[tytalan]

NotEspi wrote:

tytalan wrote:

Except in the example of the swashbuckler you use a action to get panache and than you use the finisher you can’t use a action with the attack trait. With elemental blast you just attacking 2-3 times. The swashbuckler is a bad example your closer to a monk. A Monks damage doesn’t...

While that is true, I was pointing out that, the way the class is written now - a level 3 martial with an item worth 100 gp can do damage comparable to a level 20 kineticist with an approx 30000 gp worth handwraps. With two actions.

If that doesn't showcase that the one action elemental blast needs adjustments,I am not sure what will.

As for attacking 3 times in a turn (with the control discipline as per my first post), yes, it wouldbe possible. But MAP applies, so probably not advisable.

You could say the same for a fighter or champion the swashbuckler is going to out damage them because that what the class is designed to do. You can’t expect to make the Kineticist the best combat class in the game the ideal is balance and your expecting to much for damage.

[NotEspi]

I will run the numbers later today and see.

[NotEspi]

Alright, so I looked at the actual numbers for comparison. It took a while, because work week, and so on and so forth.

So without further ado - I have made this shared sheet if you want to check on my formulas, but I believe everything is in order.

Let me know if you find something wrong, and I will attempt to fix it.

Comparison is based on Kineticist as written in the playtest (using 1d6 blast element), a full caster using Telekinetic Projectile (a 1d6 scaling cantrip), and a non-fighter martial using a 1d6 weapon (attempting to hit twice, using 2 actions). No feats or specific class abilities we taken into consideration. There are too many moving parts here, and yes, I do realise that can change the table, but I wanted to have a baseline.

Expertise and Specialisation are included in the calculation, as well as scaling spell tradition (which does, as the only one go up to legendary).

Potency runes and Striking runes (as per their minimum available level) are also included.

Please note that these are all 'white room' numbers, without conditions, bonuses, etc. The only thing included is scaling handwraps. Otherwise the caster would have dominated this chart. It is also calculated per the document as written. Meaning the first expertise bump is at level 7 instead of 5.

So what did we find out?

- Assuming all our example characters use 2 actions, kineticist damage is the lowest across the board. This is not surprising, given that they are behind with both chance to hit and damage due to the to-hit ability starting at 16 instead of the expected 18.

Compared to a legendary scaling caster, the damage is moving between 57% to 86%, averaging somewhere around 73%.

Compared to the non-legendary martial, where the ratio is between 42% and 64%, averaging at 50%.

Note that the numbers are likely reflecting the fact that proficiency comes in later.

Please keep in mind that all these abilities that can be spammed every turn. So yeah. That's the damage per the document as-is.

Given that this should be the kineticist's forte, I consider this ... not good.

[Verzen]

NotEspi wrote:

Alright, so I looked at the actual numbers for comparison. It took a while, because work week, and so on and so forth.

So without further ado - I have made this shared sheet if you want to check on my formulas, but I believe everything is in order.

Let me know if you find something wrong, and I will attempt to fix it.

Comparison is based on Kineticist as written in the playtest (using 1d6 blast element), a full caster using Telekinetic Projectile (a 1d6 scaling cantrip), and a non-fighter martial using a 1d6 weapon (attempting to hit twice, using 2 actions). No feats or specific class abilities we taken into consideration. There are too many moving parts here, and yes, I do realise that can change the table, but I wanted to have a baseline.

Expertise and Specialisation are included in the calculation, as well as scaling spell tradition (which does, as the only one go up to legendary).

Potency runes and Striking runes (as per their minimum available level) are also included.

Please note that these are all 'white room' numbers, without conditions, bonuses, etc. The only thing included is scaling handwraps. Otherwise the caster would have dominated this chart. It is also calculated per the document as written. Meaning the first expertise bump is at level 7 instead of 5.

So what did we find out?

- Assuming all our example characters use 2 actions, kineticist damage is the lowest across the board. This is not surprising, given that they are behind with both chance to hit and damage due to the to-hit ability starting at 16 instead of the expected 18.

Compared to a legendary scaling caster, the damage is moving between 57% to 86%, averaging somewhere around 73%.

Compared to the non-legendary martial, where the ratio is between 42% and 64%, averaging at 50%.

Note that the numbers are likely reflecting the fact...

EDP2A?

[NotEspi]

Effective Damage per 2 Actions.

[Squiggit]

You say Effective Damage per 2 actions, but it looks like the kineticist is only spending one action.

[NotEspi]

Squiggit wrote:

You say Effective Damage per 2 actions, but it looks like the kineticist is only spending one action.

Because of Gather Element.

I can make another without that one, though. It's a good point, since blast does not overflow.

[NotEspi]

Okay, new stats. IF kineticist has an element gathered when they start their turn, things are looking pretty good compared to a cantrip.

CHART

Raw Data

We get quite a few levels when we are actually BETTER than a cantrip - ranging from approx 90% damage up to 130% at level 4 or 5 when we get the first striking rune. Then a slow decline until level 11 to a respectable 90%, then kineticist gets the master weapon proficiency and specialisation over the next 4 levels and we go above again.

The comparison with martial never goes above 100%, but the classes are tied for damage between and including levels 15 and 19. This is when the stat bump of the to-hit stat matters (values 21-22)

Note : I did find a few incorrect calculations, so I will check the sheet and get back with a possible correction.

[NotEspi]

Right. I did find a few errors and fixed them. So, as promised, original chart of damage per 2 actions if kineticist does not have element charged at the start of their turn:

Chart

Raw Data

[NotEspi]

I forgot to mention one thing. Note the data represents a scenario in which the to-hit stat is also the damage stat. Meaning melee/strength 16 at level 1