Premature discussion about the Psychic


Pathfinder Second Edition General Discussion

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Xenocrat wrote:

Oscillating Wave note - while your unique psi surface cantrip, Thermal Stasis, may seem boring and niche, note that by casting it for one action it flips your fire/cold back again.

So you can constantly spam fire spells against something weak to it or immune to cold as long as you pay the action tax with Thermal Stasis. And if it's weak/immune it's often doing that type of damage anyway, so you'll benefit from the defense that Thermal Stasis provides.

I choose not to believe that you have to pick only one of fire/cold since the base spell gives both. Just say that since it gives both, you flip them to give both in a different aesthetic order with no mechanical change. "Behold, my blue then red shield is now red then blue!"

Same can be done with Entropic Wheel. Whith the level 2 psyche damaging effect or with Fiery body you can use a save effect like Redistribute Potential, entropic wheel it to change element and use either the 1 action cantrip or the damaging Psyche effect for 2 potential triggers. A good unleash window can fit three damaging effects with the same element using the level 1 cantrip and the level 6 reaction

First you use a 2 action spell that forces a save like Fireball or Distribute Potential after unleashing, then you use Entropic Wheel if it deals damage and a 1 action damaging effect like the psyche feat or Thermal Stasis if it deals no damage. The first will leave you on the non desired elemental state, the second one on your desired one.

On your second turn, if you are on your desired elemental type, you repeat the previous turn, if not, you use Thermal Stasis and a save spell.

Entropic Wheel does not specify that you cannot cast it over and over too, so as long as you deal damage you can switch switch your element as a reaction (it doesn't specify what happens when you cast it a second time too, personally I would rule it as it not doing anything but switching).


Totally Not Gorbacz wrote:


Yet the point-based casting psionics that you're arguing for is a very 3.5 WotC-made thing.

Well, first... yeah, because it was actually felt unique. Not very well balanced, but gave you feeling you playing something outstanding from regular spellcasters.

And second... i already mentioned it does not have to be purely based on 3.5
Psi-points over spells slot is a good starting point. But everything else can be a subject for change.
For D&D 5e WotC tried to make it differently. Of course it is... well, didn't worked well in the end.
It was noticeable they put some effort in designing first 10 levels for Unearthed Arcana of psionic. But remaining 10 levels was very hastily and lazily done. In the end it felt both very imbalanced and poor powers design.
Sill they didn't tried to make just copy-paste of 3.5 psionics. Just kept psi-point as base. And of course kept the lore about psionic powers.


Question: can the shadow signet ring not be used on amped TP or amped dancing blade bc the activate free action for it has the metamagic tag?


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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
WWHsmackdown wrote:
Question: can the shadow signet ring not be used on amped TP or amped dancing blade bc the activate free action for it has the metamagic tag?

Correct.


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Squiggit wrote:
WWHsmackdown wrote:
Question: can the shadow signet ring not be used on amped TP or amped dancing blade bc the activate free action for it has the metamagic tag?
Correct.

Harshes the mellow considerably. Why make the shadow signet to soft patch caster attack rolls when the blaster caster class specifically can't use it to blast? Distant grasp is going to roll it's amps on a hope and prayer for at level enemies. Edit: looking around at average armor classes of monsters and it seems the psychic is gonna have to roll an 8-12 on the die on average to meet armor classes, which is fine for good damage on an unlimited resource. I take back the reactionary salt. Still, taking away the metamagic for amps in a tight three action system seems a little too cautious


WWHsmackdown wrote:
Squiggit wrote:
WWHsmackdown wrote:
Question: can the shadow signet ring not be used on amped TP or amped dancing blade bc the activate free action for it has the metamagic tag?
Correct.
Harshes the mellow considerably. Why make the shadow signet to soft patch caster attack rolls when the blaster caster class specifically can't use it to blast? Distant grasp is going to roll it's amps on a hope and prayer for at level enemies

Same reason they didn't just let caster use potency to fix the to-hit issue (striking is less of an issue). Also the same reason they decided that a Magus can't use metamagic with spellstrike. Also the same reason they decided that a Wizard cannot extend the reach and cast stealthily at the same time.

They decided "you must use metamagic immediately before the spell you are casting" as opposed to the much more useable "until the turn ends, metamagic you use affects the next spell you cast".


WWHsmackdown wrote:
Squiggit wrote:
WWHsmackdown wrote:
Question: can the shadow signet ring not be used on amped TP or amped dancing blade bc the activate free action for it has the metamagic tag?
Correct.
Harshes the mellow considerably. Why make the shadow signet to soft patch caster attack rolls when the blaster caster class specifically can't use it to blast? Distant grasp is going to roll it's amps on a hope and prayer for at level enemies. Edit: looking around at average armor classes of monsters and it seems the psychic is gonna have to roll an 8-12 on the die on average to meet armor classes, which is fine for good damage on an unlimited resource. I take back the reactionary salt. Still, taking away the metamagic for amps in a tight three action system seems a little too cautious

Levels 5 and especially 6 are still going to be a real pain, as you effectively have -3 to hit and not enough resources to make up for that in any way for more than one engagement (or two ar 6). After that, it should be alright.


Now that I think on daze and unintended things again, as written it is the most broken cantrip in the game. Because of the duration of 1 round, they wouldn't lose the stunned condition at the start of their turn and a stunned creature can't act. So it is functionally identical to stunned for 1 round, meaning they lose their entire turn.

I have rarely seen a thing that's more obviously not intended.


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Yeah those breakpoint levels are rough, especially against higher level enemies.

Making attack spells unreliable and not take advantage of degrees of success continues to be one of the more baffling design choices in PF2 (compounded by the almost as baffling disjointed proficiency scaling).


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Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Karmagator wrote:

Now that I think on daze and unintended things again, as written it is the most broken cantrip in the game. Because of the duration of 1 round, they wouldn't lose the stunned condition at the start of their turn and a stunned creature can't act. So it is functionally identical to stunned for 1 round, meaning they lose their entire turn.

I have rarely seen a thing that's more obviously not intended.

Conditions have their own rules and do not necessarily relate to the duration of spells. If you told me the stun would end prematurely when the Daze spell ended, I would be a bit more likely to agree. But without text saying so, the stunned condition can end and have no effect on the spell duration without text tying the two effects together.


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Xethik wrote:
Karmagator wrote:

Now that I think on daze and unintended things again, as written it is the most broken cantrip in the game. Because of the duration of 1 round, they wouldn't lose the stunned condition at the start of their turn and a stunned creature can't act. So it is functionally identical to stunned for 1 round, meaning they lose their entire turn.

I have rarely seen a thing that's more obviously not intended.

Conditions have their own rules and do not necessarily relate to the duration of spells. If you told me the stun would end prematurely when the Daze spell ended, I would be a bit more likely to agree. But without text saying so, the stunned condition can end and have no effect on the spell duration without text tying the two effects together.

Whoops, you're right XD. Serious brain fart moment.


It might be more obvious to people who play casters regularly, but 1st-level bless scrolls would work well for counterbalancing the attack modifier issues for quite a while. They are only 4 gp a pop and last a whole fight. Pre-buffing is an issue unlike with heroism, though. An attractive alternative to actually preparing heroism as well, at least until you get 6th-level spells.

If you want to go full blaster, it would actually worth poaching daze off of Silent Whisper with Parallel Breakthrough. Never thought I'd say that, but targeting will saves is just soooo good. And the amped version is actually quite solid, despite the frankly unnecessary +2 heightening.


Karmagator wrote:

Now that I think on daze and unintended things again, as written it is the most broken cantrip in the game. Because of the duration of 1 round, they wouldn't lose the stunned condition at the start of their turn and a stunned creature can't act. So it is functionally identical to stunned for 1 round, meaning they lose their entire turn.

I have rarely seen a thing that's more obviously not intended.

Daze gives stunned 1. Does Psychic have something that changes that?


Guntermench wrote:
Karmagator wrote:

Now that I think on daze and unintended things again, as written it is the most broken cantrip in the game. Because of the duration of 1 round, they wouldn't lose the stunned condition at the start of their turn and a stunned creature can't act. So it is functionally identical to stunned for 1 round, meaning they lose their entire turn.

I have rarely seen a thing that's more obviously not intended.

Daze gives stunned 1. Does Psychic have something that changes that?

Nope, I was just throwing things together that aren't actually connected.


Something I've never really thought about, as I've never played a caster...

When going full ham (unleash+amp) and not having to worry too badly about damage spreading, then casting telekinetic rend on even just two targets is likely more cost-effective than casting telekinetic projectile. Because of TR's weird +2 heightening that dynamic becomes fairly muddy on even levels, and of course there is a lot more that goes into that calculation (relative value of AC and Fort being the most important); However, it is still an interesting realisation.


Karmagator wrote:

Something I've never really thought about, as I've never played a caster...

When going full ham (unleash+amp) and not having to worry too badly about damage spreading, then casting telekinetic rend on even just two targets is likely more cost-effective than casting telekinetic projectile. Because of TR's weird +2 heightening that dynamic becomes fairly muddy on even levels, and of course there is a lot more that goes into that calculation (relative value of AC and Fort being the most important); However, it is still an interesting realisation.

TR and Psi burst are probably best served on an intelligence distant grasp bc you can more easily get recall knowledge checks (with a sensible dm) to know when it's a good time to target saves


WWHsmackdown wrote:
TR and Psi burst are probably best served on an intelligence distant grasp bc you can more easily get recall knowledge checks (with a sensible dm) to know when it's a good time to target saves

Thankfully, my party will contain a thaumaturge, so that won't be a problem for me ^^. I swear, these classes were made to be played together - probably the thoughts of every offensive spellcaster when looking at the thaum.


WWHsmackdown wrote:


When going full ham (unleash+amp) and not having to worry too badly about damage spreading, then casting telekinetic rend on even just two targets is likely more cost-effective than casting telekinetic projectile. Because of TR's weird +2 heightening that dynamic becomes fairly muddy on even levels, and of course there is a lot more that goes into that calculation (relative value of AC and Fort being the most important); However, it is still an interesting realisation.

TR being +2 is probably my biggest gripe of the psychic even if i love everything else. It did garbage damage in the playtest and the playtest numbers actually didnt change. But Unleash fixes some of that.

I was thinking what other cantrip would be best to get via the level 6 feat. Sadly you cant get shatter mind because that one beats TR pretty quickly due to better scaling. Or if a supportive cantrip like guidance or Message


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The best cantrip to pick up depends on what you already have.

For most of them, message is very strong when amped at 4+; getting the Barbarian, Rogue, or Fighter to just wallop something is very good. Guidance should also not be overlooked; preventing crit-fails is a nice tool to have in your pocket.

For Infinite Eye, Telekinetic Projectile is very good. They have true strike and organsight as locked in spells and no other damaging psi cantrips.

For Silent Whisper, telekinetic rend might be worth considering. They have good single-target damage and excellent support already, so having an option for getting AOE damage on non-Will save means their bases are well covered.


TheGentlemanDM wrote:

The best cantrip to pick up depends on what you already have.

For most of them, message is very strong when amped at 4+; getting the Barbarian, Rogue, or Fighter to just wallop something is very good. Guidance should also not be overlooked; preventing crit-fails is a nice tool to have in your pocket.

For Infinite Eye, Telekinetic Projectile is very good. They have true strike and organsight as locked in spells and no other damaging psi cantrips.

For Silent Whisper, telekinetic rend might be worth considering. They have good single-target damage and excellent support already, so having an option for getting AOE damage on non-Will save means their bases are well covered.

I'm thinking Distant Grasp. On one hand a Will Save or Mindshift cantrip would be nice, on the other hand hey dont have much on Support


Candlejake wrote:
TheGentlemanDM wrote:

The best cantrip to pick up depends on what you already have.

For most of them, message is very strong when amped at 4+; getting the Barbarian, Rogue, or Fighter to just wallop something is very good. Guidance should also not be overlooked; preventing crit-fails is a nice tool to have in your pocket.

For Infinite Eye, Telekinetic Projectile is very good. They have true strike and organsight as locked in spells and no other damaging psi cantrips.

For Silent Whisper, telekinetic rend might be worth considering. They have good single-target damage and excellent support already, so having an option for getting AOE damage on non-Will save means their bases are well covered.

I'm thinking Distant Grasp. On one hand a Will Save or Mindshift cantrip would be nice, on the other hand hey dont have much on Support

If you want damage options, daze is probably your best bet. The base version is still meh, but the amped version is quite good (especially if you have other people that target Will saves for anything) and it targets Will, which Distant Grasp can't natively do.

If you don't want more damage stuff, I definitely concur with message being great. Even just the base version with the psychic improvement is amazing.

On the topic of TR, it is surprisingly versatile even compared to Shatter Mind. In a straight-up fight it is not as good, but in many fights it might even be better. A cone can only go in one direction and when the enemy isn't just in front of you, that is tricky. TR has zero problems with that, you have full 360° coverage.


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Don’t forget you can pick up Ray of Frost or Produce Flame as a psi cantrip, just learn TKP normally. An amped RoF with your last focus point produces enough temp hp to soak the Strain Mind damage after that.


Wow, the glimpse weakness amp is just genuinely terrible. At level 17, the best it will ever get, you get a whooping 7.5 average damage over the unamped version. On one target, once. That is literally never a good investment. Even at level 1 and two you have guidance.


Karmagator wrote:
Wow, the glimpse weakness amp is just genuinely terrible. At level 17, the best it will ever get, you get a whooping 7.5 average damage over the unamped version. On one target, once. That is literally never a good investment. Even at level 1 and two you have guidance.

Amped glimpse weakness is basically a delayed force bolt with potential to crit, which is not that bad. Not worth it over the unamped glimpse weakness though, I agree. Just highlights how good the base cantrip is.


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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

I like a lot of stuff about the psychic. But it does have some issues that jump out at me.

Late Game Scaling - Many of their cantrips scaling isn’t the best late game, and psychic will have lost their two focus point advantage by then as everyone else has 2 points. Entropic wheel doesn’t scale well either as it takes forever to boost up later.

Bad Scaling in General - Someone explain why telekinetic rend still scales horribly? And only every two spell levels so it is unusable half the time? It was a major complaint in playtest and wasn’t touched. Shatter mind was buffed to be a good nuke, was TK rend forgotten? Makes that whole subclass kind of eh. Also amped daze only scales +2 which gives it dead levels, no reason for that,

Confusing Rules - Conservation of Energy on Oscillatinf wave is weird. If it triggers odd thermal stasis, does that mean it only does one resist not two? Making thermal stasis better for MC weirdly. But you want it to to switch damage types…. What about entropic wheel? Also how does it work with redistribute potential? Very cool and thematic feature but the mechanics are… odd.

Also, entropic wheel order of operations, does it gain motes before or after the triggering spell does damage, both initially and in subsequent rounds?


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I think foresee the Path needs some erratta as well:

Quote:

to instead gain a +2 status

bonus to melee Strikes it makes as reactions.

I don't think I have ever seen this language before.

Bonus to Strikes? I assume it means to the attack roll with the Strike, but maybe it the damage? or is it both? And etc.


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Dumb multiclass Psychic dedication tricks.

1. Group insurance: everyone in the party takes Guidance at level 11+. Any time someone fails an attack, fails an important skill check, or fails or crit fails a save by 2 it gets upgraded, once per party member. This should be roughly 10% of your attacks and 20% of your saves where this will make a difference.

2. Archer artillery: An all ranged party all take Message at level 7+. Use two actions to attack, use one action to use Message to send an action to an ally. That ally then uses a reaction to make a strike at full MAP.

3. Individual Shield Wall: Does the shield reaction on an ally stack, even though the circumstance bonus to defense wouldn't? I can't see why not. Everyone takes Shield, everyone amps it on one guy standing in the crow, he can soak four different hits for double shield values of damage resisted, or 12 hits over three rounds for normal shield absorption.


The tenth level subconscious mind specific feats kinda bug me since there's just the one that's far better than the rest. Emotional surge along with a class that has a lot of focus on attack spells is hard to pass up. Emotional acceptance already has the best psyche action at level 1. It also gets the best second psyche action.


aobst128 wrote:
The tenth level subconscious mind specific feats kinda bug me since there's just the one that's far better than the rest. Emotional surge along with a class that has a lot of focus on attack spells is hard to pass up. Emotional acceptance already has the best psyche action at level 1. It also gets the best second psyche action.

It's good, but you can also use a staff of divination to spam true strike if you want to save the feat or don't have access.

Or use psi blast because the marginal damage increase from +2 accuracy on an attack cantrip might not be much different from the psi blast damage. At level 3 a psi blast does 2d4, or 5 average, a Telekinetic Projectile, amped and in psyche, does 5d6+4+6, or 27.5. If a +2 increases regular damage by 20% (10% to hit, 10% to crit), that's a gain in damage of...5.5 points of damage.

Of course psi blast has to be discounted by half/no damage save possibilities, but it also offers will/reflex targeting, a second target option, mental damage to avoid physical resistance, and an action still of use when casting spells that don't use attack rolls, all of which may be more useful than the +2 feat.

The intersting thing here for me is the +2 to skills. You can use it to toss out a couple of Scare to Death (or Bon Mot into Scare to Death, or regular intimidate, or...) at high level. Weird use of psyche, but it's there.


Kinda forgot about staff of divination. Probably gonna be the standard for oscillating wave blasters. Imaginary weapon users are probably best off poaching reach spell for that. I just wish the other options at tenth level were a little better.

Edit: one more thing emotional surge could do for oscillating wave is once you get access to fiery body, your bonus could apply to 2 produce flames on your turn. Probably best to do once your focus points are out since I think the one action cast only applies to the innate produce flame and those wouldn't be able to be amped.


I have a weird question now that melee spells are the only way to flank with spells. Can you flank with a melee spell using reach spell? Would you treat it like having a melee reach of 30 feet? That would be cool.


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aobst128 wrote:
Kinda forgot about staff of divination. Probably gonna be the standard for oscillating wave blasters. Imaginary weapon users are probably best off poaching reach spell for that.

You can't combine an amp with metamagic (it's part of the amp rules), so no reach spell on Imaginary Weapon in any sense that matters.


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Xenocrat wrote:
aobst128 wrote:
Kinda forgot about staff of divination. Probably gonna be the standard for oscillating wave blasters. Imaginary weapon users are probably best off poaching reach spell for that.
You can't combine an amp with metamagic (it's part of the amp rules), so no reach spell on Imaginary Weapon in any sense that matters.

Didn't catch that. Woe to the melee psychic build. I don't want to be anywhere near enemies with 6 hitpoints and no armor. Maybe worth it if you're hasted and can skirmish with it.


Well, I haven't delved into Psychic yet, but at first, how could I (if it was obviously) emulate Psylocke from the X-Men? Psychic with Monk Archetype, or vice versa, Monk with Psychic Archetype? By the way, what other famous psychics could find Dark Archive versions? Grateful!


My personal favorite 3 action routine would be organsight into telekinetic rend. Doesn't matter if they succeed their save, they'll take the extra precision damage as long as they took at least 1 point of slashing damage. Just need good medicine proficiency to make it work.


I think you’ll fail the medicine check pretty often.


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A damage table because I was bored.


aobst128 wrote:
Xenocrat wrote:
aobst128 wrote:
Kinda forgot about staff of divination. Probably gonna be the standard for oscillating wave blasters. Imaginary weapon users are probably best off poaching reach spell for that.
You can't combine an amp with metamagic (it's part of the amp rules), so no reach spell on Imaginary Weapon in any sense that matters.
Didn't catch that. Woe to the melee psychic build. I don't want to be anywhere near enemies with 6 hitpoints and no armor. Maybe worth it if you're hasted and can skirmish with it.

I'm still tempted to go all in on the melee Psychic just because the idea is super cool to me. Champion archetype for full plate and the resiliency feat and it... might be doable? Maybe.


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Arachnofiend wrote:
aobst128 wrote:
Xenocrat wrote:
aobst128 wrote:
Kinda forgot about staff of divination. Probably gonna be the standard for oscillating wave blasters. Imaginary weapon users are probably best off poaching reach spell for that.
You can't combine an amp with metamagic (it's part of the amp rules), so no reach spell on Imaginary Weapon in any sense that matters.
Didn't catch that. Woe to the melee psychic build. I don't want to be anywhere near enemies with 6 hitpoints and no armor. Maybe worth it if you're hasted and can skirmish with it.
I'm still tempted to go all in on the melee Psychic just because the idea is super cool to me. Champion archetype for full plate and the resiliency feat and it... might be doable? Maybe.

I think for a melee Psychic I'd be interested in trying Tangible Dream with an Int-based subconscious mind.

• They get an amped Shield cantrip to absorb a lot of damage.
• They get Imaginary Weapon to make melee attacks using Int and Spell Attack Proficiency.
• They get Mirror Image as a granted spell to help avoid hits altogether.
• They can easily take Alchemist Multiclass to make lots of Drakeheart Mutagen each morning.

I'd probably start with 18 Int, 16 Con, and at least 12 Dex. And I'd take Toughness as soon as possible.

I don't know how well it would work in the long run, but I'd think such a build would be able to survive at least occasional melee forays at lower levels.


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You're gonna need some armor either from champion, rogue, or a general feat and you probably want to use haste over mirror image in order to skirmish. Only really worth going in if you can get your 2 targets with imaginary weapon. Maybe also with the d12 amped produce flame. Could be fun if you can land attacks against flatfooted foes.


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aobst128 wrote:
You're gonna need some armor either from champion, rogue, or a general feat and you probably want to use haste over mirror image in order to skirmish. Only really worth going in if you can get your 2 targets with imaginary weapon. Maybe also with the d12 amped produce flame. Could be fun if you can land attacks against flatfooted foes.

Won't need armor if he's using Drakeheart mutagens


aobst128 wrote:
The tenth level subconscious mind specific feats kinda bug me since there's just the one that's far better than the rest. Emotional surge along with a class that has a lot of focus on attack spells is hard to pass up. Emotional acceptance already has the best psyche action at level 1. It also gets the best second psyche action.

Does emotional Acceptence have the best level 1 psyche action? I'd argue that Gathered Lore has probably the best one, closely followed by Emotional Acceptence.


LordeAlvenaharr wrote:
Well, I haven't delved into Psychic yet, but at first, how could I (if it was obviously) emulate Psylocke from the X-Men? Psychic with Monk Archetype, or vice versa, Monk with Psychic Archetype? By the way, what other famous psychics could find Dark Archive versions? Grateful!

Psychic gets a level 4 feat that buffs melee damage which is arguably pretty good for monks. 1d6 per attack after you cast a psychic spell. You could cast shield and then flurry of blows. The damage does fall off a bit and you can only get it at level 8 onwards but it seems decent


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chapter6 wrote:
aobst128 wrote:
You're gonna need some armor either from champion, rogue, or a general feat and you probably want to use haste over mirror image in order to skirmish. Only really worth going in if you can get your 2 targets with imaginary weapon. Maybe also with the d12 amped produce flame. Could be fun if you can land attacks against flatfooted foes.
Won't need armor if he's using Drakeheart mutagens

Drakeheart is good but has an action cost and a drawback on will saves. Armor proficiency is easier to manage and cleaner to access than alchemy. Not a bad option for the versatility of consumables but if it's just for the armor, I'd just stick with a chain shirt.


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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Yeah the easy aid is really nice.

TBH the only psyche action I really didn't like was calculated's level 10 feat.

Spending a feat and an action to do something that half the time does nothing or worse than nothing is just not great. Obviously there's benefit in reliability, but unlike assurance it's harder to know when that guarantee will work in your favor and if you need to mop up at the end of a fight that might already be after psyche goes down... mostly the fact that you're using a high level feat and locking down your action economy to use it that feels especially bad.


Squiggit wrote:

Yeah the easy aid is really nice.

TBH the only psyche action I really didn't like was calculated's level 10 feat.

Spending a feat and an action to do something that half the time does nothing or worse than nothing is just not great. Obviously there's benefit in reliability, but unlike assurance it's harder to know when that guarantee will work in your favor and if you need to mop up at the end of a fight that might already be after psyche goes down... mostly the fact that you're using a high level feat and locking down your action economy to use it that feels especially bad.

I thought the same thing on first glance at impose order but I kinda like it now. The important thing is that it's average damage rounded up so it does help you at least a little. Probably better to just follow up with the single action blast but it's kinda fun to have a standard 30 damage on electric arc.


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For a 2 dice spell it adds 1dmg/spell level, kinda like Dangerous Sorcery or a damage increase of 12.5%. Is that worth the feat + an action?


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Yeah if you’re Oscilling Wace dropping Cones of Cold it’s one point ahead of dangerous sorcery, if using Redistribute Potential cantrip it’s dangerous sorcerers minus 2.


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Xenocrat wrote:
Yeah if you’re Oscilling Wace dropping Cones of Cold it’s one point ahead of dangerous sorcery, if using Redistribute Potential cantrip it’s dangerous sorcerers minus 2.

Apparently I was stupefied while phone posting this.

Sczarni

Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Arachnofiend wrote:
aobst128 wrote:
Xenocrat wrote:
aobst128 wrote:
Kinda forgot about staff of divination. Probably gonna be the standard for oscillating wave blasters. Imaginary weapon users are probably best off poaching reach spell for that.
You can't combine an amp with metamagic (it's part of the amp rules), so no reach spell on Imaginary Weapon in any sense that matters.
Didn't catch that. Woe to the melee psychic build. I don't want to be anywhere near enemies with 6 hitpoints and no armor. Maybe worth it if you're hasted and can skirmish with it.
I'm still tempted to go all in on the melee Psychic just because the idea is super cool to me. Champion archetype for full plate and the resiliency feat and it... might be doable? Maybe.

Do Champion with psychic dedication using imaginary weapon as your cantrip.

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