Wielding enemy weapons


Rules Discussion


Pathfinder Pawns, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

What happens if a PC picks up and attempts to use a fallen Xulgath Stoneliege's digging bar or other monster's nonstandard weapon?

Liberty's Edge

Ask the GM, if you're asking ME I would say that you get a Weapon with the following stats/traits:

Improvised/Simple Weapon
1d10 Piercing Damage Die
Traits: Fatal d12, Forceful, Versatile B
Weapon Group: None
Runes: None


2 people marked this as a favorite.

I would call this an Advanced Weapon not simple or improvised, because d10 base with those traits makes it an advanced weapon comparing it to others.

Anyways, I agree with the base damage and traits. But not your weapon proficiency category and maybe not that it's not a part of a weapon group.

Oh, and to clarify, that it's a two handed weapon.

Ultimately, my main goal if I needed to make a ruling as a GM would be to ensure that it wasn't power creep and that its "power budget" was roughly comparable to other weapons PCs have access to.

Grand Archive

I agree with the Advanced classification. It seems like a weapon specific to Xulgath Stonelieges.

Liberty's Edge

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Guys, it's a digging bar... like, the 5 ft long simple iron nail with a flattened end that you can buy at Home Depot... it is not a proper Weapon, it's built for loosening up packed dirt and cracking rocks, a gardening tool. Just my opinion though...

Sovereign Court

5 people marked this as a favorite.

Yeah but for a crude digging tool it has kinda good weapon stats. It's a lot of traits and damage for a simple weapon.

I'd go with advanced weapon simply because it's obscure and has hefty stats.

Dark Archive

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Ravingdork wrote:
What happens if a PC picks up and attempts to use a fallen Xulgath Stoneliege's digging bar or other monster's nonstandard weapon?

What happens? You make a GM call on how to to treat it. Improvised, or whatever you think best.


Ascalaphus wrote:

Yeah but for a crude digging tool it has kinda good weapon stats. It's a lot of traits and damage for a simple weapon.

I'd go with advanced weapon simply because it's obscure and has hefty stats.

I dunno. A standard shortsword wielded by a level 6 enemy does a remarkably large amount of damage.

Nunchaku are also rumored to originally be a farming tool.

Obscurity of the item would increase the access trait up to Uncommon or Rare, but not necessarily the proficiency category.

Ultimately it is the GMs call.


Themetricsystem wrote:
Guys, it's a digging bar... like, the 5 ft long simple iron nail with a flattened end that you can buy at Home Depot... it is not a proper Weapon, it's built for loosening up packed dirt and cracking rocks, a gardening tool. Just my opinion though...

I know what it is, but it breaks the power line for simple weapons by a pretty big margin.

Game balance is more important.

The other option is you make it a simple weapon that becomes:
2 handed, 1d8 with versatile B. For a simple weapon, that feels about like the right power budget.

Your options are to have it be a simple common weapon, which means it's power budget is low. Or two increase the proficiency requirement which will increase the power budget.

IMO, you should not treat rarity as a power budget adder. Especially in the context of "my players have found this item, what are its stats?" If the players already have it, the rarity doesn't mean anything.

You either are going to have an item that narratively the stats don't remotely match to what the enemy could do with it, or that the proficiency seems much more challenging than what this particular item reflects.

Personally, I like the second option more because you can embellish the item to be more complex than the large metal gardening tool by saying it has additional widgets and spikes on the sides of it and the overall size and weight makes it more challenging to use, so it takes special training.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Or it could be a basic, somewhat improvised weapon to the casual user, but to somebody w/ Advanced training (or perhaps only Martial) they can make better use of its peculiar construction. I mean technically somebody could pick up a greatsword and wield it as an improvised weapon, doing less damage & losing some traits, but perhaps using their higher proficiency.

A Greatpick is d10, Fatal d12 for a Martial weapon (and one that seems popular w/ critfishers). So if the digging bar is that plus versatile B & Forceful that's at least Advanced OR the Stoneliege has passive abilities which augment it (or both since Advanced usually adds less).

Narratively, the weapon doesn't even make much sense to me, since it does seem like a big stick with a pointy end in the drawing. Yes, one could swing it, but why would it retain its picks & bullets Fatal trait? Of course, the author's likely only thinking of the moment and those scary big crits or the monster digging into a PC (re: Forceful), not the weapon's overall place in the world.


5 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

It's a weapon wielded by an NPC, so you can't assume its statline is representative only of the weapon's stats. For all we know the Xulgath itself is adding those traits and upping its damage.

I would rule it as a greatclub or an improvised piercing weapon.


WatersLethe wrote:

It's a weapon wielded by an NPC, so you can't assume its statline is representative only of the weapon's stats. For all we know the Xulgath itself is adding those traits and upping its damage.

I would rule it as a greatclub or an improvised piercing weapon.

I think this is the right call. The baseline assumption has to be that NPC/Creature has several "silent" feats/abilities that are baked into the stat block that make their hits look so good.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Also, we don't want for players to deliberately try to pick up enemy weapons because they are way more powerful than their weapons... do we?


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

The other point in favor of it being an improvised weapon is there's a penalty that makes it less accurate than the unarmed attacks.

But I'd probably treat it like tit has some built in modifiers for the properties a la deadly simplicity.


I can certainly buy an argument that the fatal trait, high damage dice, and forceful traits are part of what the monsters brings to the table, not inherent to the weapon.

I think I'd still rule it as a 2 handed 1d8 simple proficiency weapon that either deal bludgeoning with versatile piercing or piercing with versatile bludgeoning.

Making it into an improvised weapon pretty much immediately means it's not worth using, because of the attack penalty.

Liberty's Edge

1 person marked this as a favorite.

The point (heh) that it has too many Traits is a fair one I suppose.

Perhaps it does make sense to cleave the Forceful and Fatal Traits off if used by a player.. either way, there isn't a definitive answer to the general Q as it will always come down to a GM call.


Themetricsystem wrote:

The point (heh) that it has too many Traits is a fair one I suppose.

Perhaps it does make sense to cleave the Forceful and Fatal Traits off if used by a player.. either way, there isn't a definitive answer to the general Q as it will always come down to a GM call.

That's certainly true, I think the general advice would be not to let the weapon stats exceed the power budget compared to existing items. But it's not as though there is an exact rule on how much value something has.

It's very much a best guess sort of scenario.

Changing damage dice, number of hands, traits, reload (when applicable) and proficiency requirements are all important factors that create a give a take for finalizing the stats of a weapon.

For instance, I could agree to a 2 handed simple weapon being created that did 1d4 damage but had fatal d10, forceful, and versatile traits. You could maybe even argue to bump to a d6 but such a weapon is now probably on the high end of the power curve. Now does this weapon adequately represent the monster weapon presented earlier?

In my opinion no. I think the higher base damage is a better representation and to pay for it I think you sacrifice fatal and forceful.

Ultimately though, it's all a balancing act which doesn't have specific rules to guide you.

[And I hope there never are, because we came up with rules for custom weapon in the last edition and everyone came up with the most ridiculous high crit range weapons with low damage dice because it was incredibly over powered in last edition...and then GMs basically stopped allowing it at all because it was obviously not balanced for players to use. If you create rules around it, players will try to find a way to get an edge and then tell everyone about it.]

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder Second Edition / Rules Discussion / Wielding enemy weapons All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.