Pathfinders version of Earth seems 100% just as dangerous, honestly; and I would love to explore it.
Paizo, Pathfinder Modern dropping when? Maybe a topic for another thread. Lol
If the edicts are meaningless then they are just a waste of space and might as well be erased.
Champion (Paladin/Antipaladin) always had a code that they had to follow or else lose their power. If a GM wants to alter the codes, it's on them. If the GM wants to handle the code loosely, it's on them.
Separating Champion from Alignment is specially bad because the entire point is that they get power from their tight moral code. They are the definition of wearing your personality on your sleeves, regardless of it's a good or bad player doing it. In other words, you don't because a Paladin because you were forced or a deity asked you to. You do it because it just comes natural to do so.
The specific deity anathema, are the ToS of getting that power. You cannot get power for free without paying a cost. In the case of Champions, it's a bit of freedom on what you can and cannot do.
Which by the way is why anathema and alignment are important. It drives characterisation. Especially of these classes. It doesn't really matter if you do it differently. Just that you do it.
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
I see the mechanics of the Champion as a
more of a leash than a pen. An rp starting point, not an rp boundary. You go too far, stretch it too far, and it snaps.
I am thoroughly enjoying my NG 'Champion' of Nethys (wiz main, champ ded). The tenants of good and redeemer cause haven't gotten in the way of playing the character at all. In fact, they plus nethys' edicts/anathema have provided a fun starting point for character rp.
|
|
The good champions of Nethys are in a fun position where your greatest villains are likely evil champions of Nethys. Dedicated Neutral clerics probably want to keep the balance in check, but for a champion, you have to pick a side, until we get neutral causes anyways.I see the mechanics of the Champion as a
more of a leash than a pen. An rp starting point, not an rp boundary. You go too far, stretch it too far, and it snaps.I am thoroughly enjoying my NG 'Champion' of Nethys (wiz main, champ ded). The tenants of good and redeemer cause haven't gotten in the way of playing the character at all. In fact, they plus nethys' edicts/anathema have provided a fun starting point for character rp.
Not necessarily. To me, Nethysians are just the peeps who do magic. At almost every turn, magic is used. Possibly to an irritating degree. Alignment really wouldn't play a major role. Good Nethysians use magic a lot for good. Evil Nethysians use magic a lot for evil. Neutral Nethysians just use magic a lot.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Pathfinders version of Earth seems 100% just as dangerous, honestly; and I would love to explore it.
Paizo, Pathfinder Modern dropping when? Maybe a topic for another thread. Lol
I think the Pathfinder version of Earth is currently in the roaring 20's, since Reign of Winter had your characters fight in WWI and it's been a few years since then.
Very likely. Most AP's take place in a similar year to our own real time. Reign of Winter was released in 2013, and should take place in 4713 AR. WW1 took place between 1914 - 1918; with PC's arriving during its final year. As time passes similarly on both planets, and each takes place during their winter months, one can assume that the current year on Earth is 1927; while Golarion is currently in the year 4722 AR.
If that's the case, the Harlem Globetrotters have just begun their adventures. Would they all just have the Bard Dedication? Lol.
|
|
I suppose that because of Nethys's madness and indifference to good and evil, champions aren't doing his will other than using magic. Their individual causes are unrelated to Nethys's agenda. They just use his power as a means to an end, because the means are the end for Nethys. Is that how you're playing it? I kinda like the idea of good champions of Nethys doing good in the name of Nethys to try and tip the scale of his influence.
That is definitely a way of looking at it. I'm playing it more along the lines as it just makes sense to the character. Magic is an amazingly useful tool. The reason to use it is just that. That Nethys wills it, is coincidence. The character is an academic. They know that their existence will always be unnoticed by Nethys. So, having a 'relationship' with his deity is not even an option. And, he thinks that he likes it that way. The 'relationship' doesn't become all absorbing, like some faithful of other deities he's seen.
Similarly, the tenets of good and redeemer cause, directly coincide with how the character acts anyway. They aren't vows he's made, it is just the way he acts.
Finally, to address the liberator champions against slavers. I think that folks are getting wrapped up a little too much into logical, rational minutiae. As the deities have been written to be fallible in various ways, it seems to me that the chaotic deities wouldn't exactly follow things to their logical conclusion. Instead it is more likely that they'd be perfectly content with a semi-sound rationale.
i.e. "Slaver," says the liberator champion, "You get to make a choice. If you choose to continue enslaving people, I will stop you. I am not deciding for you, merely letting you know the repercussion of your choice. You still have the right to make the choice. Life is full of decisions and the repercussions of those decisions. Make your choice!"
This rationale seems that it would be perfectly reasonable to a CG deity. It is definitely not perfectly logical, neither is the deity.
As I play through an online game of Agents of Edgewatch, one thing has become increasingly clear with every session: I'm absolutely horrible at playing the 2nd Edition champion class. I forget life saving reactions and other important details more frequently than the media replays Will Smith slap videos.
The other players and GM are constantly reminding me of things like Desperate Prayer can only be used once per day and that appropriate triggers have occurred.
How do you champion players do it? Those that I've seen in action make it look so easy.
(My hearing disability and this particular game being in the early am for my time zone are probably contributing factors.)
|
As I play through an online game of Agents of Edgewatch, one thing has become increasingly clear with every session: I'm absolutely horrible at playing the 2nd Edition champion class. I forget life saving reactions and other important details more frequently than the media replays Will Smith slap videos.
The other players and GM are constantly reminding me of things like Desperate Prayer can only be used once per day and that appropriate triggers have occurred.
How do you champion players do it? Those that I've seen in action make it look so easy.
(My hearing disability and this particular game being in the early am for my time zone are probably contributing factors.)
I make my Champion's reaction the focus of my attention in the fight, with their attacks a close second. So, I always position my Champion where they are most likely to use it and I stay aware of all opportunities so that I can choose the best moment to do it.
I do the same with AoO when playing a Fighter, Spellstrike when playing a Magus and spells (especially sustained ones) when playing a caster.
I've found that I'm often busy panning my combat strategy for my next turn, and so miss the ques for my reactions.
I suspect all these years of playing spellcasters have made me into something of an over-analytical and subconsciously selfish roleplayer.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Additionally, seperating causes from alignment also allows for neutral champions without to wait for a hypothetical justicar/balancer/anarch causeI apologize for the interruption and my incoming pedantry, but the word is spelled "justiciar." Not your fault, this word is CONSTANTLY spelled wrong across rpg circles, both tabletop and video game (looking at YOU, Mass Effect 2, where it's not only misspelled but the misspelling was voice-acted!) and I'm trying to do my part to raise awareness of it.
Thank you, carry on! :)
There's a fair amount of drift in language, since all words are made up. At some point justicar could subplant justiciar by frequency of use.
In a universe where evil is a tangible, attackable thing and not just the nebulous byproduct of pursuits for power and money, I can't imagine not being pulled to align yourself with godlike power to strike into the heart of evil, protect the innocent, redeem the repentant, CLEANSE THE WICKED WITH FIRE, BURN THE CANCEROUS HEART OF EVIL WITH SARENRAE'S BLESSED FLAMES, WWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHG!!!!
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
In a universe where evil is a tangible, attackable thing and not just the nebulous byproduct of pursuits for power and money, I can't imagine not being pulled to align yourself with godlike power to strike into the heart of evil, protect the innocent, redeem the repentant, CLEANSE THE WICKED WITH FIRE, BURN THE CANCEROUS HEART OF EVIL WITH SARENRAE'S BLESSED FLAMES, WWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHG!!!!
This, for some reason, suddenly inspired me to make a Champion dedicated to a water Deity, who is modeled after Mermaid Man and goes around screaming "EEEEEVIL" as he uses the purifying waves of his faith to drown the wickedness from the world.