Is it true there will be a vampire archetype on book of the dead?

[R3st8]

Is this rumors true?

[Garulo]

It would be surprising if they did since they basically gave a dhampir ancestry the ability to have a vampires abilities. What would want to have in a vampire that is not in/available to the half-vampire?

[Rysky]

1) yes

2) by that logic what’s the point of having Orcs and Elves since we have the Heritages for Halves? Lots of points actually.

[Garulo]

Rysky wrote:

1) yes

2) by that logic what’s the point of having Orcs and Elves since we have the Heritages for Halves? Lots of points actually.

I stand corrected. It will be an awesome vampire with great abilities. Since the elf has iconic features such as speed increase and access to unique feats which support the fantasy vision of elves, I am sure that there are iconic features of vampires that dhampirs are missing so that it will be rolled into archetype and its feats ... (help me out by telling me what is missing)

<edit> Ah, things like not needing to eat or drink. Immortality, Ability to create permanent servants. Ok, that will be cool and definitely not in dhampir camp (I think it was due to balance issues)

[WWHsmackdown]

Garulo wrote:

Rysky wrote:

1) yes

2) by that logic what’s the point of having Orcs and Elves since we have the Heritages for Halves? Lots of points actually.

I stand corrected. It will be an awesome vampire with great abilities. Since the elf has iconic features such as speed increase and access to unique feats which support the fantasy vision of elves, I am sure that there are iconic features of vampires that dhampirs are missing so that it will be rolled into archetype and its feats ... (help me out by telling me what is missing)

We'll all find out in March. Whatever they are, they'll have the power of class/archetype feats instead of ancestry feats so that's a plus. One thing I'd enjoy is a focus spell to make an attack roll or spell attack roll (whichever is higher) and heal from biting and draining blood. It's like the dhampir feat but it's healing instead of temp hp and it would have the scaling of a focus spell. Also focus spells for creatures of the night (druids wildshape spells for rats, wolves, and bats) would be cool.

[Perpdepog]

I'm hoping for the ability to turn into mist, myself. I mean I know we can do that now but I would hope it would be more effective as a class feat rather than a spell.

I'm wondering if you are going to have to lug a coffin around everywhere you go.

[Garulo]

Perpdepog wrote:

I'm hoping for the ability to turn into mist, myself. I mean I know we can do that now but I would hope it would be more effective as a class feat rather than a spell.

I'm wondering if you are going to have to lug a coffin around everywhere you go.

That is the key question. The dhampir has can have the abilities of the vampire if they take a spell casting class. If the vampire archetype just basically allows you to take the dhampir feats as class feats, I am a little underwhelmed (especially if you use dedication feats to get spellcasting which allows for gaseous form at 12th level). Maybe they will have a unique spell of "coffin trick" where it combines rope trick with a coffin?

But no matter, I have been convinced that this archetype will blow the dhampir ancestry out of the coffin (or maybe it only works with that ancestry). I look forward to creating my immortal, unbreathing/uneating/undrinking master of the undead who can control any and all undead using focus spell

[pixierose]

I think being a Dhampir and being a full fledged vampire offer unique and different fantasies and they won't necessarily be competing with one another.

[Perpdepog]

Yeah. Also I'm expecting that you will somehow be able to gain the full benefits of undeath as a vampire, which isn't something we can currently do.

[keftiu]

Vampire, Ghoul, Mummy, Ghost, and Lich are all getting Archetypes, while Skeleton is an Ancestry. This has all been officially confirmed.

[Tender Tendrils]

By being an archetype, the vampire can have much stronger (and more) feats than a versatile heritage can.

Vampires also have many abilities that dhampir feats don't cover, such as turning into mist, walking up walls, the vampires claws attack, controlling rats/bats/wolves (dhampir can make an impression, but true vampires can telepathically command them), casting dominate as an innate spell, etc.

There are also many vampire abilities left out of the current bestiary entries for vampires (levitation, flight, invisibility, etc) that an archetype could expand on, and many players might actually want more of the vampire weaknesses (more than what just being a dhampir provides) as well to fully play out the vampire fantasy.

[Perpdepog]

keftiu wrote:

Vampire, Ghoul, Mummy, Ghost, and Lich are all getting Archetypes, while Skeleton is an Ancestry. This has all been officially confirmed.

Is ghost confirmed? I'm surprised by that one. Pleased, but surprised.

Also I'm wondering where zombie is at?

[Tender Tendrils]

Perpdepog wrote:

keftiu wrote:

Vampire, Ghoul, Mummy, Ghost, and Lich are all getting Archetypes, while Skeleton is an Ancestry. This has all been officially confirmed.

Is ghost confirmed? I'm surprised by that one. Pleased, but surprised.

Also I'm wondering where zombie is at?

I think zombie is a bit of a harder sell than the others because most (except zombie lords) are mindless. They could do zombie lords, but even those probably have some level of deterioration that makes them a tricky sell for a player option.

They are also gross looking (ghouls are creepy, but at least don't have their skin sloughing off, and skeletons are nice, clean, dry bones) which also makes them less attractive (pun intended) for a player option. I personally don't mind playing a gross looking character, but I know it is a dealbreaker for a lot of players.

[AnimatedPaper]

Tender Tendrils wrote:

Perpdepog wrote:

keftiu wrote:

Vampire, Ghoul, Mummy, Ghost, and Lich are all getting Archetypes, while Skeleton is an Ancestry. This has all been officially confirmed.

Is ghost confirmed? I'm surprised by that one. Pleased, but surprised.

Also I'm wondering where zombie is at?

I think zombie is a bit of a harder sell than the others because most (except zombie lords) are mindless. They could do zombie lords, but even those probably have some level of deterioration that makes them a tricky sell for a player option.

I don’t think that’s right. Skeletons, except for Skeletal champions, are also mostly mindless, and we know we’re getting those. Now, the permanently slowed condition, THAT I could see being an issue.

[Perpdepog]

And I suppose we haven't had zombie lords make it into the game yet, either. Maybe they aren't part of the lore any longer?

Personally I don't think the being a corpse bit would factor much into it. It's Book of the Dead, after all; people are going to expect a certain amount of ickiness.

[HumbleGamer]

I like extra stuff, but I also hope any of those is going to be rare rather than uncommon ( as well as character stuff balanced around the already existing archetypes/ancestries).

[Tender Tendrils]

AnimatedPaper wrote:

Tender Tendrils wrote:

Perpdepog wrote:

keftiu wrote:

Vampire, Ghoul, Mummy, Ghost, and Lich are all getting Archetypes, while Skeleton is an Ancestry. This has all been officially confirmed.

Is ghost confirmed? I'm surprised by that one. Pleased, but surprised.

Also I'm wondering where zombie is at?

I think zombie is a bit of a harder sell than the others because most (except zombie lords) are mindless. They could do zombie lords, but even those probably have some level of deterioration that makes them a tricky sell for a player option.

I don’t think that’s right. Skeletons, except for Skeletal champions, are also mostly mindless, and we know we’re getting those. Now, the permanently slowed condition, THAT I could see being an issue.

Just because one creature gets a change/exception made doesn't invalidate the overall point. Skeletons are also generally presented as being "smarter" than zombies, retaining enough of their former lives to still use weapons and shields and do other basic things (such as act autonomously as guards/sentries), while zombies are generally presented as just shambling towards the nearest warm body.

Skeletons also have more things based on them that are intelligent than zombies (skeletal champions, wights, etc). Skeletons also have a lot more support for being able to talk/interact normally in popular culture, while zombies are almost universally mindless (with the exception of a few fringe cases like iZombie and Warm Bodies).

The one semi-intelligent zombie (the zombie lord) is also a lot more obscure than skeletal champions and wights - skeletal champions and wights turn up in pretty much every adventure that focus on undead, while the only place I have seen the zombie lord is in a single bestiary entry in PF1, which hasn't been ported over into PF2 so far.

[R3st8]

HumbleGamer wrote:

I like extra stuff, but I also hope any of those is going to be rare rather than uncommon ( as well as character stuff balanced around the already existing archetypes/ancestries).

I'm sorry but i will have to disagree on this one, vampires counts are level 6 and are common so finding one and getting bitten shouldn't be a rare occurrence specially in geb the nation of the undead, making it uncommon with a access condition of being from geb and at least level 5 would make more sense since it requires gm permission but doesn't break golarion's cannon

[Onkonk]

According to Aaron on the available level for these:

Quote:

Skeleton is an ancestry (OMG skeleton heritages!!!). All the other playable undead are archetypes. All of them start with a 2nd level feat, except lich is higher at 12.

[Old_Man_Robot]

Onkonk wrote:

According to Aaron on the available level for these:

Quote:

Skeleton is an ancestry (OMG skeleton heritages!!!). All the other playable undead are archetypes. All of them start with a 2nd level feat, except lich is higher at 12.

I was hoping to see something like "Ancestry Archetypes", a type of archetype that can run off ancestry feats instead of class. Introduce a bit more dynamism into the system that way.

I'm sure it will be fine though.

[WWHsmackdown]

R3st8 wrote:

HumbleGamer wrote:

I like extra stuff, but I also hope any of those is going to be rare rather than uncommon ( as well as character stuff balanced around the already existing archetypes/ancestries).

I'm sorry but i will have to disagree on this one, vampires counts are level 6 and are common so finding one and getting bitten shouldn't be a rare occurrence specially in geb the nation of the undead, making it uncommon with a access condition of being from geb and at least level 5 would make more sense since it requires gm permission but doesn't break golarion's cannon

Either uncommon or rare get the job done. It's makes the player come to me for approval and provides and an early opportunity to nip the bud of anything I don't want in my game. At that point the destinction between uncommon and rare isn't all that important.

[SuperBidi]

Onkonk wrote:

According to Aaron on the available level for these:

Quote:

Skeleton is an ancestry (OMG skeleton heritages!!!). All the other playable undead are archetypes. All of them start with a 2nd level feat, except lich is higher at 12.

I want to play an Aasimar skeleton, now!!!!

[HumbleGamer]

WWHsmackdown wrote:

R3st8 wrote:

HumbleGamer wrote:

I like extra stuff, but I also hope any of those is going to be rare rather than uncommon ( as well as character stuff balanced around the already existing archetypes/ancestries).

I'm sorry but i will have to disagree on this one, vampires counts are level 6 and are common so finding one and getting bitten shouldn't be a rare occurrence specially in geb the nation of the undead, making it uncommon with a access condition of being from geb and at least level 5 would make more sense since it requires gm permission but doesn't break golarion's cannon

Either uncommon or rare get the job done. It's makes the player come to me for approval and provides and an early opportunity to nip the bud of anything I don't want in my game. At that point the destinction between uncommon and rare isn't all that important.

Yeah, that's fair from a mechanical point of view.

I asked for rare because I consider skeletal characters, for example, rare if compared to asimar, rat folks or tengu, and I tend to allow uncommon stuff as well as common ( but it's true that either uncommon and rare require the DM approval).

[R3st8]

I just realized that a ghost archetype might be a great way for a dead pc to continues playing or even better for the party to haunt the villain after a TPK

[Aaron Shanks]

I've offered a lot of Book of the Dead previews and answered a lot of questions on the product page. Don't miss them.

[Malk_Content]

R3st8 wrote:

I just realized that a ghost archetype might be a great way for a dead pc to continues playing or even better for the party to haunt the villain after a TPK

Do it on purpose. Start the game totally as normal but have the BBEG defeat the party as they would hit level 2. They wake up a week layer to witness the devastation and with a Free Undead Archetype.