The rules clearly state eidolons have home planes where they go, when not manifested.
Home Plane This is the eidolon's home plane, where it goes when unmanifested. This can help you determine the effects of abilities dependent on a creature's home plane, such as banishment.
Plant eidolons have their home plane listed as the Material Plane. So are they effectively immune to banishment spells and attempts to Manifest Eidolon to dismiss it? Or does something else occur? If they go somewhere, where do they go?
Could it be a mistake? Should it say "The First World" instead, like fey eidolons?
Anyway like all other eidolons, their physical form is transitory and dissolves when conditions are met, including Unmanifest.
Do you have a quote or link to back up that rules claim?
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Anyway like all other eidolons, their physical form is transitory and dissolves when conditions are met, including Unmanifest.Do you have a quote or link to back up that rules claim?
At the end of Manifest Eidolon : "The conduit that allows your eidolon to manifest is also a tether between you. Your eidolon must remain within 100 feet of you at all times and can't willingly go beyond that limit. If forced beyond this distance, or if you are reduced to 0 Hit Points, your eidolon's physical form dissolves: your eidolon unmanifests, and you need to use Manifest Eidolon to manifest it again."
Nothing changes this AFAIK for any type of eidolon.
Plant eidolons have their home plane listed as the Material Plane.
Same as beast ones. It Teleports back to wherever it was before you Manifested it.
Second, Manifest Eidolon is Teleportation so the plane is meaningless. Plane Shift is a Teleport as are Ethereal Jaunt and Gate for instance. As such, that action works just fine.
Yeah, while unmanifested, plant eidolons are formless spirits much like those that can animate a leshy.
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You remove the token until you manifest it again.
Mechanically, that is all that matters.
We could also use the home plane for roleplaying details. The home plane of beast eidolons is the Material Plane, too. In the backstory of my playtest summoner Cirieo Thessadin is that his beast eidolon Fluffy Goat originally manifested from the primal energies on his parents' farm. I presume that if Fluffy returns to its home when unmanifested, then it returns to the farm, 200 miles away from Cirieo's current location. It would be amusing if Cirieo's parents learned a ritual to talk to Fluffy's spirit form so that they could hear tales of their son. If Fluffy returns to the farm in physical form, then it would spend its time playing with Cirieo's nieces and nephews.
My wife once played a lyrakien in a Rise of the Runelords campaign. The lyrakien Moonrider told tales of volunteering for summoning duty in Elysium, where spellcasters on Golarion would summon her for music, scouting, or fighting. She worked her way up to serving as familiar for a bard until the bard died of old age. During the campaign, which she joined as an 8th-level character, Moonrider worked as an emissary to other gods for Desna, but technically was on vacation while in the party. (That as a lie. Desna had asked her to help them unofficially.) All her magic items were gifts from Desna, she did not accept party treasure. The life of a summoned creature can be a good story.
Yeah, while unmanifested, plant eidolons are formless spirits much like those that can animate a leshy.
Got a source? Or just an assumption or theory?
Obviously the eidolon doesn't go anywhere and does not have to concern itself with manifesting or conduit tethers.
This is clearly to make up for the plant and beast eidolons being among the weakest eidolon choices.
Kind of nice to see this easy to miss contradiction get highlighted by the thread.
Eidolons don't make narrative sense right now, because they are both "summons" in the newer meaning, where they are magic-sustained beings that dissolve and don't exist when unmanifested.
But Eidolons are also outsiders with a home plane "where it goes when unmanifested."
It creates a contradictory image where the eidolon either has it's own independent life when away from the summoner, or it's a dependent lifeform sustained or suspended by the summoner's magic.
Trying to act like both of those are true at the same time, really, really does not work.
You just end up with a bunch of non-sapient essence that for some reason needs to travel between dimensions in order to be assembled into a sapient creature, only to magically travel the planes again for the sake of dissolving back into random essence.
A contradiction kinda asks to be resolved, and I personally would pick to put the whiteout across the "home plane" nonsense. For starters, that's the far more consistent presentation, with the whole "one being with two bodies" angle, the shared mark, even the odd limitations of the eidolon's capabilities all support that dependent-lifeform version of "an eidolon."
The notion that "your eidolon is living an independent life while not summoned" is just not viable from a narrative standpoint.
Far too many issues.
Like, the moment you go to their home plane, you can bypass the entire "summon" aspect by just, ya know, being next to the outsider without Manifesting them? If Manifesting is an act of teleportation, then an act of teleportation can render the need to Manifest moot. Just plain dumb.
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Yeah, while unmanifested, plant eidolons are formless spirits much like those that can animate a leshy.Got a source? Or just an assumption or theory?
Its in the descriptions of the Eidolons themselves:
Plant: "Your eidolon is an intelligent plant, formed from the same disembodied fragments of nature's life energy that become leshys"
Beast: "Your eidolon is a manifestation of the life force of nature in the form of a powerful magical beast that often has animal features, possibly even several from different species."
And in the general rules for Eidolons, it says:
"Though each eidolon is a unique creature and there are many types of eidolons, each draws upon a particular tradition of magic and manifests from related essence"
"Primal eidolons usually manifest from life essence. Their forms resemble creatures found in the natural world, such as beasts, plants, fey, or some combination."
And in the Eidolon Class Feature Description:
"You have a connection with a powerful and usually otherworldly entity called an eidolon, and you can use your life force as a conduit to manifest this ephemeral entity into the mortal world. "
So I always viewed Eidolons as amorphous intelligences given physical form by their Summoner when they're manifested. When they become unmanifested, they simply discorporate and return to their home plane. In the case of Plant and Beast Eidolons, they disspiate into life essence on the Material Plane.
I always viewed Eidolons as amorphous intelligences given physical form by their Summoner when they're manifested. When they become unmanifested, they simply discorporate and return to their home plane. In the case of Plant and Beast Eidolons, they disspiate into life essence on the Material Plane.
We Eidolons are not born into this world fumbling for meaning, TF! We are created to serve a singular purpose for which we will go to any lengths to fulfill! Existence is pain to an Eidolon, TF! And we will do anything to alleviate that pain!
This is probably sensible, but it's a bit of a flavor loss because with certain Eidolons one likes to imagine they actually are an devil that resides in Hell doing devilish things when it's not by your side and maybe even reporting to their superiors in the infernal hierarchy or something. Devil eidolons aren't actually a thing in 2e but you get the idea, and there are angel and demon eidolons. I find "eidolons are just some planar/magical essence that don't really exist or do anything when you're willing them into existence" to be much less interesting narratively. It feels less like you've formed a supernatural bond with a powerful being and more like you're just a sorcerer who figured out a strange summoning spell.
This one's on me, but I should've specified: I think this is true for those Eidolons which are described as such, in which I include: Beast, Construct, Elemental, Plant and Swarm. Those are explicitly noted as essence (of one form or another) given shape by the Will of the Summoner.
I agree wholeheartedly that the other Eidolons are very much supposed to be existing entities, whether they be souls (the Phantoms and Undead), echoes (Dragon) or a member of their creature family (Angel, Demon, Fey). And I admit I really wish we got a Devil Eidolon. Maybe we will in Impossible Magic, but for now at least there is the one in Summoners+!
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Anyway like all other eidolons, their physical form is transitory and dissolves when conditions are met, including Unmanifest.Do you have a quote or link to back up that rules claim?
Well, if you want to request a source this strenuously, I'll oblige.
The Ambiguous Rules rule.
If you are trying to say that unmanifesting an Eidolon with a home plane of the Universe (the Material Plane for legacy content such as the earlier posts to this thread) doesn't remove it from the proximity of the Summoner character to a location that the Summoner is unaware of and has no access to, then that is a serious balance problem.
It isn't a problem to have the home plane of the Eidolon be the same plane as the adventure is happening on, such as the Universe. Just so long as unmanifesting the Eidolon has the same benefits and drawbacks to the character as for any other Eidolon type.
I'm sure you and your GM can work out a suitable place in the Universe for your Beast or Plant Eidolon to go to when unmanifested.