I don't know Golarion very well, but as far as I could see Celestials are creatures with a strong connection to the Good-Aligned Planes ( I am just quoting the Celestial trait description ).
I wonder, are celestials just "good" beings or some sort of Good deities messengers/fighters/emissaries/ambassadors ?
For example, an angel would be tied to some deity or can be without a patron deity?
What about a Celestial Eidolon?
I am moving from a champion, which is tied to anything from tennets of good to the Paladin Cause, from my deity Edicts to my deity anathemas, and my intent was this time to play a character without bonds to codes and similar stuff ( though he might have its own code ), and browsing between eidolons my first concerns was in terms of alignment, deities and so on.
I know the Eidolon says
Quote: Alignment You choose your eidolon's alignment, abiding by any alignment restrictions listed here. Your eidolon's alignment has no impact on your own. but still I wonder:
- Could an evil summoner get an angelic eidolon and use it for his evil plans?
- Could a good summoner get a demon eidolon and use it to bring peace and love among the mortals?
And also, if the eidolon still has its ( his? ) own alignment, what's the point of it if it has no impact on your own?
Wouldn't be like considering the Eidolon as a tool?
A means for the summoner to accomplish his purposes?
HumbleGamer wrote: - Could an evil summoner get an angelic eidolon and use it for his evil plans?
- Could a good summoner get a demon eidolon and use it to bring peace and love among the mortals?
I don't see why not, on either count. Funnily enough the good summoner would probably be more in the clear than the evil would be. Goodly outsiders seem more prone to ask for help from others than evil ones, so if an evil summoner somehow bound a good eidolon they would be more likely to face repercussions from it.
HumbleGamer wrote: And also, if the eidolon still has its ( his? ) own alignment, what's the point of it if it has no impact on your own?
Wouldn't be like considering the Eidolon as a tool?
A means for the summoner to accomplish his purposes?
That feels like more roleplay and GM territory than mechanical, but I imagine it'd be something you'd approach like you would with other party members, familiars, or animal companions. An eidolon does have an intelligence score, after all. It's capable of making its own decisions.
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Good Eidolon hopes to redeem its Summoner. Evil Eidolon hopes to corrupt its Summoner.
Everything is cool.
What about then celestials/devils/feys with the godless healing feat?
May they also be atheists by choice?
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Atheism specifically is not believing in the existence of gods. Idk the definition of not believing gods are worthy but that seems more appropriate. I don't think literal atheism is possible on Golarion unless you live under a rock.
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Atheism wrote: In a world where the gods demonstrably exist, few people uphold a strictly atheistic or agnostic worldview; that is, a belief that there are no gods, or that the existence of gods is unknowable. However, a good number of people choose not to worship any deities whatsoever. Many do so because of the value they place on freedom—not being beholden to a deity means no limitations, no censure, no anathema, and no strictures. While this decision might sound amoral to some, for atheists, it can be motivated by a desire for autonomy and the right to choose one's own fate. It's less that they don't think the gods are worthy and more that they don't want to be beholden to them, apparently.
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many celestials do serve specific good deities (sarenrae, desna, iomedae, and shelyn all have specific angel/azata/archon servitors, etc), but they don't have to.
Its important to remember that your eidolon doesn't blindly serve you - it is a creature of its own, with its own thoughts and opinions. It is bound to your will and thus will do what you tell it to, but it has its own plans and views and will likely express them to you, especially if it disagrees with you.
Summoner: "go save that guy falling off of a cliff"
demon eidolon: "don't you think it would be more fun to let him fall?"
Summoner: "no, go save him!"
demon eidolon: "fine"
KaiBlob1 wrote: Summoner: "go save that guy falling off of a cliff"
demon eidolon: "don't you think it would be more fun to let him fall?"
Summoner: "no, go save him!"
demon eidolon: "fine"
Really like this example - especially since my first thought after reading Summoner was to have an NG Aasimar Summoner with a CE Demon Eidolon.
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Not 100% on Golarion lore, but considering celestials are primarily based on being from a good-aligned plane and no deity seems to have a monopoly on any of those planes, it seems reasonable that there are likely celestials without a tie to any deity.
I am not entirely sure. But I do feel like there are a lot of celestials not tied to a deity. Specially in elysium which is the plane known for being "extremely free and wild". Nirvana probably has some amount of free agents, mostly creatures that want to keep to themselves (ex: The Nirvana Dragon).
Heaven is less likely due to their bureaucratic nature.
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Disclaimer: This is very much how I understand the setting. It is also very rp focused.
If you follow a leader because you believe in everything they do, are you beholden to them? I think that is the situation with celestials and the good deities. I suspect a celestial being could leave the service/follow of any deity if they wished. It is merely that they very likely wouldn't.
Also note that alignment interacts differently to most planar creatures. For mortals, alignment is a vague thing that can fluctuate somewhat wildly. For aligned planar beings, their alignment is a massive part of their very essence, it is part of their makeup. As such, rping such beings and the reactions to such beings can be difficult.
Before even speaking to one, if you know what they are, you know things about them. It is not stereotyping, because it is just true. For example, if an archon requests that you both step into that shady back alley to talk, it is a given that they just want to talk. The archon's essence is LG.
I find it difficult to rp such good beings as they would have no concept of sketchy things to say. There is no possibility for hidden malice on their home plane. Yeah, azata may lie, but would never do so to harm you.
Therefore, playing an evil summoner with an angel eidolon would be too tragic for me to feel comfortable with. A good summoner with an evil eidolon would require far too much constant conflict and would get exhausting to play (for me).
Edit: Note: I come from the stance that actions are a byproduct of alignment, not the other way around.
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