For this spell, I would rule it as any club group weapon made out of wood.
So club, staff, great club, juggling club, maybe even nunchaku: yes.
Light mace, morningstar: no.
Exquisite sword cane sheath: probably not.
But other GMs may have different rulings.
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For this spell, I would rule it as any club group weapon made out of wood.
By RAW I wouldn't agree with that: if that was the case, there is no reason to mention a staff as those are in the club group too.
As a house rule, I don't think it'd be an issue. It DOES mean you could see druids doing 3d10 to "aberrations, extraplanar creatures, and undead" with a Greatclub Shillelagh. ;)
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Targets 1 non-magical club or staff
I actually find this otherwise simple question to be surprisingly complex.
A Staff (and a Bo Staff) are both in the Club Group, so the spell is probably telling us that you can only target the base Staff and Club, otherwise the spell would just say "1 non-magical club" and be done with it, since a Staff is a Club.
Both of those weapons, coincidentally, are also priced at 0 gp.
But then Paizo's writing isn't consistent. Arboreal Creatures, for example, have "Axe Vulnerability", but there is no base "Axe"; there's only the Axe Group.
And then of course, could you target a Juggling Club or Greatclub, just because the word "club" is in the name?
I think it's safest, and least headache-inducing, to limit the spell to the two base weapons described, but there is a large range of GM interpretation possible. If you play under multiple GMs, I'd bring up the question before game, just so you don't delve down the rabbit hole of Weapon Groups in the middle of a combat encounter.
But as to your question about a non-magical club or staff with the Precious Trait, I think that should work regardless, since it isn't inherently magical.
EDIT#1: a couple ninjas. Oh well.
EDIT#2: the other couple times this was asked (Legal shillelagh targets & Druids and Scimitar) the conclusion was also to leave it at just "Staff" or "Club".
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But as to your question about a non-magical club or staff with the Precious Trait, I think that should work regardless, since it isn't inherently magical.
AH, I'd missed that in my post. Yeah, there isn't any mention of material of the weapon so any valid construction is fine.
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But then Paizo's writing isn't consistent. Arboreal Creatures, for example, have "Axe Vulnerability", but there is no base "Axe"; there's only the Axe Group.
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There's a similar issue with the prerequisite for Eldritch Archer - "expert in at least one type of bow."
There is no weapon called a "bow" so this would seem to mean the bow group. That would mean that even Wizards eventually become automatically eligible for the archetype.
A plural for a groups name would have worked well.
Yeah there are a few things like this which are a bit rough.
Honestly its not a major point so I'd let the players use it if they wanted. At low level I guess its pretty good though.
But you have to be a primal caster to get it, the weapon can't be transfered. So thats a couple of multiclass feats for a martial to get it. Besides that other casters could get it via Adaptive Adpet.
Not seeing it as a real balance problem.
I agree, but I think context can simplify the answer.
The context of there not being a reason to say "or staff" if "club" in this case meant the group, rather than the specific weapon, says it means the specific weapon.
The context of other things which mention group names that aren't specific weapon names makes it clear those are referring to the groups.
And really, the only reason there's any room for doubt at all is because Paizo didn't make sure to not have the same word apply to multiple game concepts such as by having called the club weapon a truncheon or naming the weapon group bludgeon.
I agree too, though even that still leaves open the potential question as to whether or juggling club or greatclub is a 'club' in the same way a heavy crossbow is a crossbow.
Still think the answer is supposed to be no, but I can see why it might mess with some people.
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Alright, from now on all weapon categories are to be referred to by their appropriate strife specibus
Skyler: Nightstick?For this spell, I would rule it as any club group weapon made out of wood.
So club, staff, great club, juggling club, maybe even nunchaku: yes.
Light mace, morningstar: no.
Exquisite sword cane sheath: probably not.But other GMs may have different rulings.
If the player doesn't want it to work, they wouldn't try to use the spell on it.
If the GM doesn't want it to work, there are plenty of reasons that they can use to rule against it.
If both the player and the GM are good with it working, let it work.
Other than that, I can't really give any better guidance. I prefer to allow it to affect more weapons than a more restrictive reading of the rules because the spell is already a more limited version of Magic Weapon (Shillelagh targets your own weapon only, and has more limited weapons as target). I'm not sure that the minor benefit to damage under very specific circumstances is enough compensation for that.
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But then Paizo's writing isn't consistent. Arboreal Creatures, for example, have "Axe Vulnerability", but there is no base "Axe"; there's only the Axe Group.
...There's a similar issue with the prerequisite for Eldritch Archer - "expert in at least one type of bow."
There is no weapon called a "bow" so this would seem to mean the bow group. That would mean that even Wizards eventually become automatically eligible for the archetype.
Here's some food for thought--
I know Archives of Nethys is official, BUT exactly how official is it?
Reason is that for the Shillelagh spell, they list the target as: "1 non-magical club or staff you hold" with NO LINKS. So I would presume it's the base weapon club and staff.
For the Eldritch Archer Archetype, they say: "Prerequisites expert in at least one type of bow" and the word "bow" is linked to the "Bow Group" description, which if correct includes Alchemical Crossbow, Arrows, Bolts, Composite Longbow, Composite Shortbow, Crossbow, Daikyu, Hand Crossbow, Heavy Crossbow, Longbow, Magazine (Repeating Hand Crossbow), Repeating Hand Crossbow, Shortbow, Taw Launcher, Wooden Taws.
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I know Archives of Nethys is official, BUT exactly how official is it?
As there aren't levels of official, it's as official as anything else official.
As to Shillelagh vs Eldritch Archer, the difference would be, IMO, that there is no bow item in the weapon list so the only thing that it could reference is the group hence the link because there are then multiple options while club IS an item so there is only a single option so no link needed.
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I know Archives of Nethys is official, BUT exactly how official is it?As there aren't levels of official, it's as official as anything else official.
As to Shillelagh vs Eldritch Archer, the difference would be, IMO, that there is no bow item in the weapon list so the only thing that it could reference is the group hence the link because there are then multiple options while club IS an item so there is only a single option so no link needed.
Except that I really do think they meant the bow group as I see no reason to limit the archetype to bow users only. The archetype works fine for crossbow characters.
Except that I really do think they meant the bow group as I see no reason to limit the archetype to bow users only. The archetype works fine for crossbow characters.I know Archives of Nethys is official, BUT exactly how official is it?As there aren't levels of official, it's as official as anything else official.
As to Shillelagh vs Eldritch Archer, the difference would be, IMO, that there is no bow item in the weapon list so the only thing that it could reference is the group hence the link because there are then multiple options while club IS an item so there is only a single option so no link needed.
What RAI was... Who knows? Now, does the archetype 'work fine' with all the bow group? Honestly, not well when the base action requires 3 action and that doesn't mix well with reloads higher than 0. About the only non-long/short bow that works out well is the repeating crossbow. Drow Shootist into Eldritch Archer could be an interesting combo.
Is there any reason why Shillelagh would be preferable to just using weapon runes? Earlier access to the extra bonuses and damage are the only thing I can think of.