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Wow, thanks for taking the time to collect and post all those links.
The best weapon in all of PF1 is the Longspear.
For it is from the Longspear that the Flagbearer Bard hangs her Banner of Ancient Kings...
For 2-handed weapons the CHAINSAW is hard to beat - 3d6 damage with an 18-20 crit-range makes it the best melee weapon for dealing damage. It is probably unavailable outside of Iron Gods though, so there is that to contend with.
For anyone not playing Iron Gods I think the best 2-handed melee weapon is the FAUCHARD. Crits are basically bonus attack rolls , and reach gives you bonus attack rolls , so the Fauchard can double-down on those and give you both. Also, as a Polearm it can even be used WITH A SHIELD if you have the inclination ... and the feats. If you don't want to spend a feat on proficiency then the Bardiche is nearly as good.
For simple damage output though it's hard to compete with the Longbow. Full Attacking every round, essentially IGNORING DAMAGE REDUCTION and getting AN EXTRA ATTACK EVERY ROUND are pretty huge advantages too.
Obviously this will depend on your character though. For a Gunslinger the Longbow isn't as good as a Gun. For a DEX-based Magus the SCIMITAR is the best, while a STR-based Magus probably prefers ... well actually the Scimitar's still pretty good .
I have a Warpriest build who uses daggers that I want to try. Daggers don't do much damage, but they have 2 damage types, they're finessible, can be used with TWF, they're throwable and they have a decent (though not amazing) crit-range. There is some nice feat/trait support with things like PHARASMA'S obedience and the RIVER RAT trait. They're also Simple weapons, though if I'm honest you need about 15 feats to make use of their versatility, and I can't think of any classes who get that many bonus feats without martial weapon proficiency.
Oh ... the Spiked Gauntlet (or just regular Gauntlet I guess) is a great weapon for rsnged charscters who want to give a potential flanking bonus to their melee buddies off-turn. It doesn't seem like a priority until you're charged by an Ogre and the Fighter misses the fritical-confirmstion roll by 1 point and you're left to deal with an Ogre for another round. Helping other often helps yourself as well.
Slayer with Seething Hatred "that guy", Deific/Diverse Obedience Achaekek, taking Ranger Combat Style feats for Greater TWF, and using a pair of +2 Impact Sawtooth Sabres...
Even with Diverse Obedience, you don't get access to the 3rd Sentinel boon (Mantis Style Mastery) until 18HD... so this is obviously late level shenanigans.
But, Sawtooth Sabres are technically one-handed weapons that can benefit from the Impact enchantment. Mantis Style Mastery removes all penalties for TWF with Sawtooth Sabres, and you got Greater TWF without prerequisites. Lol.
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What's up with people trying to find a mathematically best for PF characters in general lately? It's simply not possible, because if you set enough parameters that the calculation is accurate, it's no longer generally valid.
I'd say it falls into categories.
Maybe; One Big Weapon(High STR & Close Melee), One Big Weapon(High STR & Reach Melee), Mounted Combat(Class & Mount), Many Melee Attacks w&wo Precision(offhand weapon combos, dbl weapons), Ranged Attack, Defender(shield usage) & non-2hndr(backup weapons), Monks C & UC(aka exotics for free), Underwater(w&wo FoM), Weapons for low BABs.
The problem is that classes, level, and group/campaign parameters can significantly alter what's best even within a category. For example, whether the Orc Hornbow with its 2d6 damage is better than a longbow with 1d8 depends on whether you can get proficiency with it, or have a feat to spare, and also whether you want/need Deadeye Bowman.
You'd need literally hundreds of sample builds, with an individual, seperate "best" for each of them, and you'd still wouldn't be close to enveloping everything. You'd also need to evaluate each level.
To show the complexity, for a 10th level cBarb* full attacking with Haste and Power Attack, greatsword is slightly better than falchion. At 11th level, falchion is slightly better, even without any changes in the build. Without Haste, they're equal at 11th level - except for when using weaker equipment, e.g. via ABP, in which case the sword is better; falchion pulls ahead at 12th level either way.
*) Using my standard ability scores and equipment projection (16+2 starting strength, pips to strength, weapon budget of ≤ 1/3 WBL, belt budget of ≤ 1/5 WBL) and attacking an average enemy of CR=level.
Bolt Aces can use the 1d6 17-20x4 Crit weapon that is the heavy dwarven pelletbow with their crossbow training and improved crit.
+1 Fauchard for being best weapon in the game. Reach is super strong.
Butchering Axe is fun with size boosting and Impact.
Falcata is the best 1handed. Edges out 2handers ultra late game.
@MrCharisma for ranged id go with the hornbow instead of the long bow. shooting arrows that deal greatsword damage is nothing to scuff at.
my go to with a switch hitter is taking a human and getting the alt ability that replace the bonus feat for 2 exotic weapons. this get you both butchering axe and the hornbow.
@MrCharisma for ranged id go with the hornbow instead of the long bow. shooting arrows that deal greatsword damage is nothing to scuff at.
Yeah I forgot about the Hornbow =P
Instead of “best”, it may be better to have tiers. Some weapons are top tier. It doesn’t mean they are the best for every character, but they offer the most if you build towards them.
Longbow and long sword, being the most common random magic weapons, should score very high on the list.
Longbow and long sword, being the most common random magic weapons, should score very high on the list.
Actually this is a good point. The Fauchard is unquestionably better as a 2-handed weapon than the Longsword is, but chances are there's only 1 Fauchard in the entire campaign - the one you brought.
Finding powerful loot drops is definitely a bonus.
Best weapon in all of PF1:
Forewarned (Su)...
Winning Initiative more often decides victory than the stats of any weapons involved.
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What's up with people trying to find a mathematically best for PF characters in general lately? It's simply not possible, because if you set enough parameters that the calculation is accurate, it's no longer generally valid.
You'd need literally hundreds of sample builds, with an individual, seperate "best" for each of them, and you'd still wouldn't be close to enveloping everything. You'd also need to evaluate each level.
100% in agreement with this. The best weapon for a Dexy magus is not the best weapon for a brute barbarian is not the best weapon for a 1st level monk is not the best weapon for a 12th level monk is not the best weapon for a vital striking fighter.
And that's without considering that certain enchantments can only be put on certain types of weapons. Yeah, it's fun to figure out maximum numbers for something. But "best" isn't just comparing apples to oranges; it's comparing apples to staplers.
Those options make things even more nuts.
What's up with people trying to find a mathematically best for PF characters in general lately? It's simply not possible, because if you set enough parameters that the calculation is accurate, it's no longer generally valid.
You'd need literally hundreds of sample builds, with an individual, seperate "best" for each of them, and you'd still wouldn't be close to enveloping everything. You'd also need to evaluate each level.
100% in agreement with this. The best weapon for a Dexy magus is not the best weapon for a brute barbarian is not the best weapon for a 1st level monk is not the best weapon for a 12th level monk is not the best weapon for a vital striking fighter.
And that's without considering that certain enchantments can only be put on certain types of weapons. Yeah, it's fun to figure out maximum numbers for something. But "best" isn't just comparing apples to oranges; it's comparing apples to staplers.
** spoiler omitted **
I generally have to 3rd this.
Im a big proponent of reach wrapons and archery but even thats a broad category that includes a bunch of different weapons that change from class, to race, to game and setting you can put a lot of data to make informed decisions but you cant really voil it down to one.
We should just decide on the "universal soldier"... the build that all further math is based on...
Level 10, because it's half...
3/4 BAB, because it's average...
20,20,20,20,20,20 stats, because it's fair...
Now we have a standard metric by which all things can be compared...
As Voltaire said; first, we must define our terms.
How about we just go with:
Level 8, BAB 3/4, and 16's in every stat (aside from levelups)
Why? Most games don't get to level 20, so half of that seem like its in the last 80% of the gameplay. BAB 3/4 because level 8 is when you get BAB 6 and the coveted extra attack. And 16's in every stat because starting with 20's means that the character is maximizing their stats for a specific purpose, instead of just being more 'average' in general. 'Fair' means different things to different people.
Sure, level 8, and 16's... I actually don't care. The point was we need a standard that can be agreed upon.
What difference level 8 vs 10 makes, I don't know... it's 1 BAB... hardly worth the distinction in arguing one way or another. Same with 16's vs 20's... I honestly wouldn't have bothered even bringing up an alternative.
So BAB +6 or +7, doesn't actaully matter...
Stats all are 16's or 20's, doesn't actually matter...
Now we have a foundation of comparison, a metric by which things can be judged. If anyone wants to math it up for the weapons in question, have at it.
Weapons have a flat +1 enchantment, no rider effects like Flaming... we should probably assume a magic weapon... or two for "those people".
From a purely stat-based perspective, I believe the Tongi, Falcata, and PelletBow have a lot going for them with their 19-20/×3... the only problem is accessibility to them. Whether or not accessibility to the weapon factors into it being the best, I don't know.
But "best" isn't just comparing apples to oranges; it's comparing apples to staplers.
I think Apples and Oranges is a good analogy actually.
Which is best: Apples or Oranges?
How about we just go with:
Level 8, BAB 3/4, and 16's in every stat (aside from levelups)
I don't think even this works though. A 3/4 BAB charactrr with 16 STR and 16 DEX will do much better with a reach weapon and Combat Expertise than a 20 STR character with 10 DEX. A Longbow will be better for the 16/16 character, while a Gunslinger doesn't give a hoot ablut their STR-mod.
Even just spreading your stats across multiple ability scores is better for some weapons .
I think there are some weapons that are noticably better than others, so maybe doing something like a tier list could work better than a "best" weapon.
That's why 20's in every stat works "best"... it is what any halfway dedicated martial will likely have by 8th or 10th level. It allows TWF to be considered, and is literally the same as UnRogue without being class specific.
But, the "universal soldier" isn't what this thread is about.
Mathematically, you are unlikely to beat a PelletBow in the hands of a Bolt Ace Gunslinger. With Improved Critical, it is a 17-20/×4... ranged bludgeoning weapon. Lol.
Bolt Ace 5 is all you need, then the rest can be Arsenal Chaplain Warpriest for Weapon Training. But classes aren't what this is about, either.
Without the need for any specific class ability to make it better, the Tongi/Falcata/PelletBow all still pack the 19-20/×3... which is legit.
The Orc HornBow gets high mention, too, because it is freaking awesome. Love me some HornBow... except when I am GM and the Zen Archer/Inquisitor has one. Flurry of Orc BaneBows is scary. Lol.