Armor Runes and Wizards


Rules Discussion


Pathfinder LO Special Edition, Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, PF Special Edition Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Superscriber

Let's see if I have this right.

At first level, a wizard with the mage armor spell and explorer's clothing can cast the spell and have effectively +1 explorer's clothing for the next day, even without etching a rune on the clothes. Okay so far?

At second level, there's no change as far as I can see.

At third level, he can buy or make (with the appropriate skill set and formula) a wand of mage armor (a third level item), at which point he no longer needs to memorize the spell - he can use that spell slot for something else.

Let me see if I can put this in a table:

Level.....Pot. Rune....Resilient....Prop....Mage armor....wand.
...1..............no...............no...........no............+1........... ......no
...2.............no...............no...........no............+1............ .....no
...3.............no...............no...........no............+1............ .....+1
...4.............no.............. no...........no............+1.................+1
...5.............+1...............no..........yes............+1............ .....+1
...6.............+1...............no..........yes............+1............ .....+1
...7..............+1..............no..........yes............+1/+1......... ...+1
...8..............+1..............+1..........yes............+1/+1......... ...+1
...9.............+1...............+1..........yes............+1/+1......... +1/+1
..10.............+1..............+1..........yes............+1/+1.........+ 1/+1
..11.............+2..............+1..........yes............+2/+1.........+ 1/+1
..12............+2..............+1...........yes............+2/+1.........+ 1/+1
..13............+2..............+1...........yes............+2/+1.........+ 2/+1
..14............+2..............+2..........yes.............+2/+1........+2 /+1
..15............+2..............+2..........yes.............+2/+2........+2 /+1
..16............+2..............+2..........yes.............+2/+2........+2 /+1
..17............+2..............+2..........yes.............+2/+2........+2 /+2
..18...........+3..............+2..........yes.............+2/+2.........+2 /+2
..19...........+3..............+2..........yes.............+3/+3.........+2 /+2
..20...........+3..............+3.........yes.............+3/+3..........+2 /+2

If this is right, and if, as I assume, you need a potency rune on the gear in order to add a working property rune (I don't think the mage armor spell would allow a property rune, since it's technically temporary) then the plan would be:

At first level, use the mage armor spell.
At third level, switch to a wand of mage armor (1st), a 3rd level item.
At fifth level, if you want a fifth level property rune, add a +1 potency rune, otherwise don't bother. Keep using the wand.
At seventh level, go back to daily casts of mage armor (4th). You could sell the wand.
At ninth level, buy or make a wand of mage armor (4th) and free up a fourth level spell slot.
At eleventh level, I would add or upgrade to a +2 potency rune on the armor. Still use the wand, but the rune would override the +1 potency from the spell. You could now have up to two property runes, if you want.
At thirteenth level, buy or make a wand of mage armor (6th). Sell the wand of mage armor (4th).
At fourteenth level, add a greater resilient rune to the armor.
At eighteenth level, upgrade to a +3 potency rune. Possibly add a third property rune.
At nineteenth level, you could go back to casting mage armor (10th), but I'm pretty sure you can find a better use for that tenth level slot. Unless you really, really, want that extra +1 to saving throws.
At twentieth level, upgrade to a major resilient rune.

Does this make sense? Did I miss anything?

Shadow Lodge

Seems like you are spending a lot of resources (gold and spell slots) for a fairly minor AC upgrade on a character that presumably should be avoiding melee anyway...


Pathfinder LO Special Edition, Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, PF Special Edition Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Superscriber

It's one spell slot. And the gold is minimized if you make your own stuff.


Technically yes, it's usually better to be using Mage Armor until lvl 7/8 when you would get Resilient rune, then you will want to change to Explorer Clothes and at that point it begins to appear property runes of armor.

It's actually a decent strategy because it saves you money at lvl 5, letting you buy other stuff first.


If you plan to get Your upgrades 2 or 3 levels pasta your current one, there's no problem.

Forse example, we Are lvl 9 now and a +1 armor rune is worth 160g

If you find one ( bu lvl 9 all characters will be given a +1 ac rune, and by lvl 11 a free +1 saves rune, that's why the first part of the thread. obviously you party is going to give the first ones to the frontlines ) and sell it Is worth 80g

Given 4 characters, it would result in 20 g each.

A small sul which is worth less than nothing compared to a high spell slot used to blast, debuff enemies or support your team.

Not to say that, fortunately, a spell Caster would take less hits than a front liner ( and a +1 ac or +1 saves wont save him in any way), thats why dedicating a high Lev spell slot to get +1 AC and saves ( because when You Are going to have +2 you will have +1 stuff found from enemies) is not worth it compared to alternatives ( a spell which will always help during an encounter).

Part of the earnings come also from a decent amount of downtime, so it's up to either players and master to get 2/6 months between chapters in order to get golds, find items, craft stuff, learn things, retrain, and so on.

We learnt this a bit late, past chapter 2, because the ap loot was ridiculous for what concerns customization, and it requires the group to make also use of the downtime activities.

Sczarni

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Since you're planning this far out, just keep upgrading the same wand as you go up in level, rather than wasting money selling and buying each one.


Pathfinder LO Special Edition, Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, PF Special Edition Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Superscriber

Hm. I did think of upgrading the wand, but I didn’t see any rules about how to do that.


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Ed Reppert wrote:
Hm. I did think of upgrading the wand, but I didn’t see any rules about how to do that.

Craft Requirements

Source Core Rulebook pg. 535

"The GM might allow you to Craft a permanent item from a lower-level version of the same item as an upgrade. For example, you might upgrade a bag of holding from a type I to a type II bag, but you couldn't upgrade a clear spindle aeon stone into an orange prism aeon stone. The cost for this upgrade is the full difference in Price between the items, and the Crafting check uses a DC for the item's new level."


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Pathfinder LO Special Edition, Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, PF Special Edition Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Superscriber

I suppose you could read it that way. I didn't. I read "wand of heightened spell" as a different thing to "wand of basic spell".


Ed Reppert wrote:
I suppose you could read it that way. I didn't. I read "wand of heightened spell" as a different thing to "wand of basic spell".

Do not see it so much heightened as repurposed to cast a stronger version of the spell. The wand is now charged with a 9-volt in place of the AA battery.


Ed Reppert wrote:
I suppose you could read it that way. I didn't. I read "wand of heightened spell" as a different thing to "wand of basic spell".

Oh, you still probably need a formula for the spell level of wand you want to upgrade it to, in the same way that you need a formula for a type II bag of holding to upgrade that type one, but yeah I see no reason why you couldn't upgrade an existing wand in that way.

Edit: Obviously you also need to expend a properly heightened Mage Armor to do so.


Ed Reppert wrote:
I suppose you could read it that way. I didn't. I read "wand of heightened spell" as a different thing to "wand of basic spell".

I don't see it functionally different: there isn't anything different written about wands vs bags of holding about components and what's needed to upgrade. The game doesn't really differentiate between heightening a recharging spell and heightening the magic affect that created and sustains an extra dimensional space. In both cases, you're 'embiggening' the effect. So IMO it seems you just need a clear progression from one to the other.


Kyrone wrote:
Technically yes, it's usually better to be using Mage Armor until lvl 7/8 when you would get Resilient rune, then you will want to change to Explorer Clothes and at that point it begins to appear property runes of armor. . .QUOTE]Explorer's Clothing
Quote:
Adventurers who don’t wear armor travel in durable clothing. Though it’s not armor and uses your unarmored defense proficiency, it still has a Dex Cap and can grant an item bonus to AC if etched with potency runes.

Unless I'm missing something, Explorer's Clothing does not allow either Resilient or Armor Property runes.

Sczarni

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Ed Reppert wrote:
I read "wand of heightened spell" as a different thing to "wand of basic spell".

You can upgrade Staves, and many of them have heightened versions of spells, if that helps you envision doing it for wands.


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iNickedYerKnickers wrote:
Unless I'm missing something, Explorer's Clothing does not allow either Resilient or Armor Property runes.
CRB page 580 wrote:
Explorer’s clothing can have armor runes etched on it even though it’s not armor


whew wrote:
iNickedYerKnickers wrote:
Unless I'm missing something, Explorer's Clothing does not allow either Resilient or Armor Property runes.
CRB page 580 wrote:
Explorer’s clothing can have armor runes etched on it even though it’s not armor

Yes, potency runes.

Quote:
Adventurers who don’t wear armor travel in durable clothing. Though it’s not armor and uses your unarmored defense proficiency, it still has a Dex Cap and can grant an item bonus to AC if etched with potency runes.


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HumbleGamer wrote:

Yes, potency runes.

Quote:
Adventurers who don’t wear armor travel in durable clothing. Though it’s not armor and uses your unarmored defense proficiency, it still has a Dex Cap and can grant an item bonus to AC if etched with potency runes.

That sentence only states that the bonus from potency runes are item bonuses to AC. (This is necessary b/c potency only "increases" the item bonus to AC, but explorer's cloths don't have one). It says nothing about not allowing other runes.


Kelseus wrote:
HumbleGamer wrote:

Yes, potency runes.

Quote:
Adventurers who don’t wear armor travel in durable clothing. Though it’s not armor and uses your unarmored defense proficiency, it still has a Dex Cap and can grant an item bonus to AC if etched with potency runes.
That sentence only states that the bonus from potency runes are item bonuses to AC. (This is necessary b/c potency only "increases" the item bonus to AC, but explorer's cloths don't have one). It says nothing about not allowing other runes.

Right, that makes totally sense.

Thanks Kelseus.


Kelseus wrote:
That sentence only states that the bonus from potency runes are item bonuses to AC. (This is necessary b/c potency only "increases" the item bonus to AC, but explorer's cloths don't have one). It says nothing about not allowing other runes.

That's what I was missing. Thanks!#


Kelseus wrote:
That sentence only states that the bonus from potency runes are item bonuses to AC. (This is necessary b/c potency only "increases" the item bonus to AC, but explorer's cloths don't have one). It says nothing about not allowing other runes.

That's what I was missing. Thanks!!

Horizon Hunters

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Kelseus wrote:
HumbleGamer wrote:

Yes, potency runes.

Quote:
Adventurers who don’t wear armor travel in durable clothing. Though it’s not armor and uses your unarmored defense proficiency, it still has a Dex Cap and can grant an item bonus to AC if etched with potency runes.
That sentence only states that the bonus from potency runes are item bonuses to AC. (This is necessary b/c potency only "increases" the item bonus to AC, but explorer's cloths don't have one). It says nothing about not allowing other runes.

You may etch other runes on Explorer's Clothing as long as the rune doesn't require a specific type of armor. For example, a Glamered rune is perfectly fine, while a Shadow rune isn't, since it requires Light or Medium armor, which Explorer's clothing is neither.

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