It's kosher.
A Summon Monster IV wand created by a wizard would cost 21k. As I understand table 15-17, summoner / occultist as caster of a 4th-level spell increases the price to 30k. So you get Summon Monster V, but it's nearly 50% more expensive due to the higher caster level.
Duration is nearly 50% longer, accordingly, but an eighth to tenth round shouldn't make a difference usually - battle is likely to be over (or at least decided) by then.
In the first edition, a wand can be crafted of any spell of up to fourth (4th) level. For the Summoner class (using Pathfinder Unchained), the spell Summon Monster V is fourth level. For all other arcane classes having this spell, that spell is usually fifth level. Therefore, I presume this means that the summoner class is the only arcane class which can produce a Wand of Summon Monster V. (Or did I miss something?)
The summoner gets access to fourth level spells at tenth level. Therefore, this wand should have a caster level of 10 (presuming I understand these rules correctly).
Since other arcane casters can use Summon Monster V (albeit at a higher spell level), I presume they can use this wand easily (as a "trigger" item; and not requiring the use of the skill, Use Magic Item), once they are of the appropriate caster level. For example, a wizard of at least ninth level is capable of casting fifth level spells, and therefore can use this wand.
I hope I have this correct. Please let me know if I've made an error somewhere in my reasoning.
Thanks,
Franklin
That is mostly correct as you present it. Since only the summoner and medium can cast Summon Monster V as a 4th level spell, then only they can install it into a wand. As such, their minimum level (10th) is the assumed CL.
"once they are of the appropriate caster level." <-- This, however, is actually wrong.
The only thing that matters is whether your class has the spell on the spell list (adjusted for features such as bloodline that add spells, or archetypes that modify your casting in some way.) Its tradition (divine, arcane, psychic) doesn't matter, and the user's caster level doesn't matter.
Spell trigger items can be used by anyone whose class can cast the corresponding spell. This is the case even for a character who can’t actually cast spells, such as a 3rd-level paladin.
To be fair though, the Medium is a really weak and poorly written class... fun concept, awful execution.
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With, of course, the usual caveat of “check with your GM.” It is a bit of power creep if you are allowed to buy wands like this. PFS, for example, has a rule that if the spell is on the wizard, cleric, druid, or psychic spell list it has to be made by one of those classes. Preventing your example, or 750 gp wands of lesser restoration made by paladins. (As opposed to the normal 4500 gp.)
Yes, but wands of Summon V, and potions of Greater Invisibility, and even a wand of Lesser Restoration are great things to toss in a pile of loot for the party to find.
Makes whoever is doing the identifying really scratch their head.
With, of course, the usual caveat of “check with your GM.” It is a bit of power creep if you are allowed to buy wands like this. PFS, for example, has a rule that if the spell is on the wizard, cleric, druid, or psychic spell list it has to be made by one of those classes. Preventing your example, or 750 gp wands of lesser restoration made by paladins. (As opposed to the normal 4500 gp.)
The reason for that rule is wealth-by-level control - which is the same reason why all forms of crafting (whether magical, or specific acts of mundane crafting) are banned.
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While there is opportunity for exploitive play with respect to ‘spell level shopping’ on wands, particularly with the chained summoner list,
Summon Monster V is 4th on Chained Summoner as well. And in general putting things above CL7 / 4th level spell on wands is a bad idea, because at that point Staves are just better. For example, Staff of Summon Monster 5 costs only 18K vs the 30K wand being proposed here.
Custom item, it is questionable if you can make staves with only 1 spell and 10 charges vs 50.
To be fair though, the Medium is a really weak and poorly written class... fun concept, awful execution.
Medium definitely isn't weak imo. Some spirits are, but Champion, Hierophant and Archmage are all very good.
To be fair though, the Medium is a really weak and poorly written class... fun concept, awful execution.Medium definitely isn't weak imo. Some spirits are, but Champion, Hierophant and Archmage are all very good.
Whoops, I was thinking spiritualist. Medium is actually pretty great.
It is probably "very good" in relation to the other options as a Medium... not very good in a general sense. Lol.
They're less "very good" compared to other focused classes, but keep in mind the Medium's strength is they can be a little bit of everything. Which angers the theorycrafting optimizers, but at an actual table might just save the party.
YMMV. I haven't seen a single campaign where some player wasn't a crafter.
PCs generally don't craft items in home games
I don't allow crafting much anymore. I find it's generally just used to break WBL.
I agree that Champion is OK; a medium that focuses on it makes a reasonably effective combatant. Marshall can be OK(ish) as a buff type, but after that... but why do you think Hierophant and Archmage are "very good"?To be fair though, the Medium is a really weak and poorly written class... fun concept, awful execution.Medium definitely isn't weak imo. Some spirits are, but Champion, Hierophant and Archmage are all very good.
Champion is extremely viable as a combatant. Free attack that stacks with Haste? Yum. They're on par with Fighters/Rangers and the average non-invul Rager Beast Totem Barbarians. Marshal is very poor for the investment(just play a Bard).
Hierophant and Archmage are great because sometimes you NEED a certain spell. Combine it with Scribe Scroll or Brew Potion and you have a very happy downtime period. Since you can be a Champion focused Medium and still reap those benefits, you can quickly fill a necessary hole given time.
The Call Spirit and Haunt Channel are niche but surprisingly always useful. Who doesn't like free Speak with Dead? GMs that's who lol.
Agreed on the Spiritualist sucking. Just play a Death Druid or a Spheres Spiritualist.
It is a bit of power creep if you are allowed to buy wands like this.
Given it's 30k, half of level 10's WBL, I'd rather advice my players to abandon this plan. There is little point in having 50 charges of a spell that gets outdated pretty quickly. Not every encounter profits from spending a charge. And soon they are level 11, 12, with Summon Monster VI available - rendering the wand partially obsolete.
Now they can spam charges to get around the outdating issue, but then they are burning money for steadily less benefit per charge. Or they sell the wand quickly - but that's a minus of 15k at minimum (no charges used), a quarter of level 10's WBL.
Crafting makes the wand considerably cheaper, but then they already have a summoner with Summon Monster V (soon VI) several times a day, questioning the whole point of the item. Still there might be applications (dual-spam of the spell in hard encounters, long adventuring days etc.), but I guess they are not worth such an investment.
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Commentary -
I've mainly played wizards over the years and I have rather extensive (and monetarily useless) game knowledge. In one 3.5 game we were trapped in a prison dimension and I had to craft EVERYTHING. It's common that when I craft an item there's a lot of complaining about downtime from the other players, so we schedule a time out when we go up a level (for training). It's the best method as it causes minimal downtime. Only recently did Paizo come up with downtime rules and really most people still want to just buy stuff and adventure - not sit around and talk about the basket they are weaving while the wizard crafts a Mon Sum 5 wand.IF you do plan to craft in game pick up ranks in Craft Sculpture (very handy for shapeable spells) or Craft Jewelry. Both skills cover the vast majority of magic items. GMs *should* make crafters roll a craft check when they create things like walls, Fabricate, etc to judge how well they made what they wanted (smooth, climbable?, spikes?). Leave Craft Armor and Weapons to the fighters.
lol, what?
why cant the crafters take 10?all magic items can be made with spellcraft, a skill also used to identify them. why bother with 3 skills when 1 will do most of the time?
any crafter who's halfway decent at their craft doesnt actually need more than 1 rank to get by, assuming they do things like cast crafters fortune, and use a masterwork tool.
1 rank + 3 class skill + 5 crafters fortune + 2 tool + take 10 is already 21+int mod. making spikes or whatever isnt harder than that
or you can use spellcraft to make magic anything and also identify spells and magic items in addition.
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Commentary -
I've mainly played wizards over the years and I have rather extensive (and monetarily useless) game knowledge. In one 3.5 game we were trapped in a prison dimension and I had to craft EVERYTHING. It's common that when I craft an item there's a lot of complaining about downtime from the other players, so we schedule a time out when we go up a level (for training). It's the best method as it causes minimal downtime. Only recently did Paizo come up with downtime rules and really most people still want to just buy stuff and adventure - not sit around and talk about the basket they are weaving while the wizard crafts a Mon Sum 5 wand.IF you do plan to craft in game pick up ranks in Craft Sculpture (very handy for shapeable spells) or Craft Jewelry. Both skills cover the vast majority of magic items. GMs *should* make crafters roll a craft check when they create things like walls, Fabricate, etc to judge how well they made what they wanted (smooth, climbable?, spikes?). Leave Craft Armor and Weapons to the fighters.
lol, what?
why cant the crafters take 10?
all magic items can be made with spellcraft, a skill also used to identify them. why bother with 3 skills when 1 will do most of the time?
any crafter who's halfway decent at their craft doesnt actually need more than 1 rank to get by, assuming they do things like cast crafters fortune, and use a masterwork tool.1 rank + 3 class skill + 5 crafters fortune + 2 tool + take 10 is already 21+int mod. making spikes or whatever isnt harder than that
or you can use spellcraft to make magic anything and also identify spells and magic items in addition.
What NV said. The crafter of the magic item isn't forced into making the base item. Actually, it is very clear that he can use a brought item, as enchanting the masterwork weapon or armor you already have is common, and you can further enchant a magic item made by others.
Only weapon and armor call for masterwork items.Furthermore, while a lot of items require jewels, relatively few items are made with the jeweler skill.
Sure, if you are trapped in a prison dimension and must make everything from scrap, you need the skills, but that isn't a common experience.