Any suggestions on putting together a Crossbowman?

[Narrowascent]

So I always like to try new things vs consistently playing the same class and I came across the crossbowman class. I was read some comments on adding some rogue for some sneak attack and that sounded fun but don't find much more on that class so with all the fun suggestions I had gotten from this forum in the past thought I would ask for suggestions that you have used or think would be good. Anything from race to feats to full build ideas would be cool to get ideas. Keep it constructive please.

[Wonderstell]

We're talking about the Crossbowman archetype, right?

Overwatch Style to get as many readied actions as possible is the key to actually using your class features. Then if you're a Kobold (or have Racial Heritage) you can take their FCB which is half your level to dmg against foes flanked/denied their dex.

Overwatch Style wrote:

While using this style, as a full-round action you can ready two ranged attacks with the chosen weapon, each with its own triggering event.

You take a –2 penalty on attack rolls made with these readied actions.

Kobold FCB wrote:

Add +1/2 to damage rolls the fighter makes with weapon attacks against an opponent he is flanking or an opponent that is denied its Dexterity bonus to AC.

Rather than spending a feat on Rapid Reload, you might want to buy a Cracked Opalescent White Pyramid for 1,500 GP which would give you proficiency with the Dwarven Light Pelletbow.

[Narrowascent]

Yes the Crosbowman archetype. That is interesting and I have never played a Kobold before. More new things. Thanks Wonderstell for the ideas

[VoodistMonk]

Elves have Crossbow Training as an alternative racial feature... which allows you to reload an Heavy Dwarven PelletBow as a free action.

Starting with 5 levels of Bolt Ace Gunslinger not only fives you a masterwork Heavy Dwarven PelletBow, but it also gives you proficiency with it. And Bolt Ace's Crossbow Training bumps you up to a 19-20/×4. Just Improved Critical away from crit-fishing with a 17-20/×4 bludgeoning crossbow. Lol.

Elf
... Crossbow Training replaces Weapon Familiarity

20pt buy (w/ racials)
11,17,12,12,15,10

Bolt Ace Gunslinger 5
... Heavy Dwarven PelletBow
...... 19-20/×4

1. Crossbow Maven
... mwk Heavy Dwarven PelletBow
1. Grit
1. Deeds
... Gunslinger's Dodge
... Sharp Shoot
... Vigilant Loading
1(level): Point Blank Shot

2. Nimble +1

3. Deeds
... Gunslinger's Initiative
... Pistol-Whip
... Shooter's Resolve
3(level): Precise Shot

4. Stat Bump: Dex +1 (18)
4(class): Weapon Focus

5. Crossbow Training
5(level): Rapid Shot

At 5:
BAB +5
Base Saves +4/+4/+1

To attack:
+ 5(BAB) + 4(Dex) + 1(mwk) + 1(WF) + 1(PBS) = +12

With Rapid Shot: +10/+10

To damage:
1D6 + 4(Dex) + 1(PBS) = ~9 bludgeon

Feats:
Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Rapid Shot, Weapon Focus

Future Feats:
Far Shot, Improved Critical (BAB +8), Overwatch Style, Overwatch Tactician, Overwatch Vortex (BAB +11), Snap Shot (BAB +6), Weapon Trick

[Narrowascent]

VoodistMonk wrote:

Elves have Crossbow Training as an alternative racial feature... which allows you to reload an Heavy Dwarven PelletBow as a free action.

Starting with 5 levels of Bolt Ace Gunslinger not only fives you a masterwork Heavy Dwarven PelletBow, but it also gives you proficiency with it. And Bolt Ace's Crossbow Training bumps you up to a 19-20/×4. Just Improved Critical away from crit-fishing with a 17-20/×4 bludgeoning crossbow. Lol.

Elf
... Crossbow Training replaces Weapon Familiarity

20pt buy (w/ racials)
11,17,12,12,15,10

Bolt Ace Gunslinger 5
... Heavy Dwarven PelletBow
...... 19-20/×4

1. Crossbow Maven
... mwk Heavy Dwarven PelletBow
1. Grit
1. Deeds
... Gunslinger's Dodge
... Sharp Shoot
... Vigilant Loading
1(level): Point Blank Shot

2. Nimble +1

3. Deeds
... Gunslinger's Initiative
... Pistol-Whip
... Shooter's Resolve
3(level): Precise Shot

4. Stat Bump: Dex +1 (18)
4(class): Weapon Focus

5. Crossbow Training
5(level): Rapid Shot

At 5:
BAB +5
Base Saves +4/+4/+1

To attack:
+ 5(BAB) + 4(Dex) + 1(mwk) + 1(WF) + 1(PBS) = +12

With Rapid Shot: +10/+10

To damage:
1D6 + 4(Dex) + 1(PBS) = ~9 bludgeon

Feats:
Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Rapid Shot, Weapon Focus

Future Feats:
Far Shot, Improved Critical (BAB +8), Overwatch Style, Overwatch Tactician, Overwatch Vortex (BAB +11), Snap Shot (BAB +6), Weapon Trick

Wow thanks for the breakdown and that sounds fun. I have never played any multiclassing before so to just make sure I understand. Are you staying to grab 5 lvls of Bolt Ace Gunslinger and then switch over to Crossbowmen? Or stay gunslinger? Thanks again for all the work in putting that down for me

[Thread Necromancers' Guild]

Putting together a crossbowman:

1) Make sure you find all the chunks (this is important!)
2) Put all the stuff back in more or less the right place.
3) Have your tomb giant friends cast make whole.
4) Greater Create Undead.
5) Garnish with paralytic toxins and extra natural attacks to taste.

[Narrowascent]

Thread Necromancers' Guild wrote:

Putting together a crossbowman:

1) Make sure you find all the chunks (this is important!)
2) Put all the stuff back in more or less the right place.
3) Have your tomb giant friends cast make whole.
4) Greater Create Undead.
5) Garnish with paralytic toxins and extra natural attacks to taste.

lol

[VoodistMonk]

After 5 levels of Bolt Ace, you are free to pursue whatever you want...

You got your free masterwork exotic crossbow and proficiency for it, you got dex-to-dmg with your free masterwork exotic crossbow, you have increased the crit multiplier of your free masterwork exotic crossbow from x3 to x4, and you have some Deeds to target Touch AC or buttstroke people with your free masterwork exotic crossbow...

You are set up for success...

[Narrowascent]

VoodistMonk wrote:

After 5 levels of Bolt Ace, you are free to pursue whatever you want...

You got your free masterwork exotic crossbow and proficiency for it, you got dex-to-dmg with your free masterwork exotic crossbow, you have increased the crit multiplier of your free masterwork exotic crossbow from x3 to x4, and you have some Deeds to target Touch AC or buttstroke people with your free masterwork exotic crossbow...

You are set up for success...

VoodistMonk thanks for the help. I am sorry but have never multiclassed before so new at this. How am I getting the free Masterwork exotic crossbow. And on choosing to continue as a crossbowmen would be a good fit or does it hurt one another in any way? If I understand this correctly, by multiclassing, I will not have access to the top level stuff of either class I am in. Say if I went 5 Gunslinger and 15 Crossbowman I will never get the benefits of a lvl 16 to 20? So trying to make sure I don't mess this up.

[Claxon]

Narrowascent wrote:

VoodistMonk wrote:

After 5 levels of Bolt Ace, you are free to pursue whatever you want...

You got your free masterwork exotic crossbow and proficiency for it, you got dex-to-dmg with your free masterwork exotic crossbow, you have increased the crit multiplier of your free masterwork exotic crossbow from x3 to x4, and you have some Deeds to target Touch AC or buttstroke people with your free masterwork exotic crossbow...

You are set up for success...

VoodistMonk thanks for the help. I am sorry but have never multiclassed before so new at this. How am I getting the free Masterwork exotic crossbow. And on choosing to continue as a crossbowmen would be a good fit or does it hurt one another in any way? If I understand this correctly, by multiclassing, I will not have access to the top level stuff of either class I am in. Say if I went 5 Gunslinger and 15 Crossbowman I will never get the benefits of a lvl 16 to 20? So trying to make sure I don't mess this up.

The Bolt Ace class features give you proficiency and one free weapon.

Quote:

Crossbow Maven

A bolt ace is proficient with all crossbows instead of all firearms and begins play with a masterwork crossbow of her choice.

This ability alters the gunslinger’s weapon proficiencies and replaces gunsmith.

Most of the Gunslinger & Bolt Ace's abilities after the first 5 levels are lackluster, but the first 5 levels are extremely good.

Also, almost no one ever plays to level 20 and even if you do it's typically 1 or 2 session at most. Honestly, game balance wise the game really start to break down around level 13+, with magic becoming too insane in power and the GM really have to go crazy to threaten an optimized party (although a party of new players that doesn't know how to optimize could still be stomped in the ground by the base CR system simply due to lack of knowledge).

In short I guess I'm saying don't sweat not having the level 20 capstone abilities, they're not going to come up.

And there's simply no good reason to stay in Gunslinger after 5 levels, so switching to Fighter will give you some nice bonuses to hit and damage and give you lots of feats to toy around with, like for Overwatch style.

[Narrowascent]

Claxon wrote:

Narrowascent wrote:

VoodistMonk wrote:

After 5 levels of Bolt Ace, you are free to pursue whatever you want...

You got your free masterwork exotic crossbow and proficiency for it, you got dex-to-dmg with your free masterwork exotic crossbow, you have increased the crit multiplier of your free masterwork exotic crossbow from x3 to x4, and you have some Deeds to target Touch AC or buttstroke people with your free masterwork exotic crossbow...

You are set up for success...

VoodistMonk thanks for the help. I am sorry but have never multiclassed before so new at this. How am I getting the free Masterwork exotic crossbow. And on choosing to continue as a crossbowmen would be a good fit or does it hurt one another in any way? If I understand this correctly, by multiclassing, I will not have access to the top level stuff of either class I am in. Say if I went 5 Gunslinger and 15 Crossbowman I will never get the benefits of a lvl 16 to 20? So trying to make sure I don't mess this up.

The Bolt Ace class features give you proficiency and one free weapon.

Quote:

Crossbow Maven

A bolt ace is proficient with all crossbows instead of all firearms and begins play with a masterwork crossbow of her choice.

This ability alters the gunslinger’s weapon proficiencies and replaces gunsmith.

Most of the Gunslinger & Bolt Ace's abilities after the first 5 levels are lackluster, but the first 5 levels are extremely good.

Also, almost no one ever plays to level 20 and even if you do it's typically 1 or 2 session at most. Honestly, game balance wise the game really start to break down around level 13+, with magic becoming too insane in power and the GM really have to go crazy to threaten an optimized party (although a party of new players that doesn't know how to optimize could still be stomped in the ground by the base CR system simply due to lack of knowledge).

In short I guess I'm saying don't sweat not having the level 20 capstone abilities, they're not...

Thanks a ton Claxon. So I will probably look into Crossboman see if it adds anything.

Does anyone have any other suggestions even if crazy to make this an interesting Char? So far it is sounding like a ton of fun but always open to more. Thanks all who took the time to share your ideas! Love this forum.

[VoodistMonk]

Maybe Arsenal Chaplain Warpriest?

Good Will saves, Weapon Training, bonus feats, and Wisdom-based divine spellcasting to go with your Wisdom-based Grit Pool.

Blessings, Deeds, Fervor, Spells, and Weapon Training should have you just about covered...

[Claxon]

I do want to add in, if you go Bolt Ace Gunslinger 5/Fighter there is almost no need to take the Crossbowman archetype for fighter.

The "unique" things that Crossbowman archetype gives you are the same things the first 5 levels of Bolt Ace gives you.

Beyond that, the other stuff isn't worth giving up access to Advanced Armor training for things like Warrior Spirit (which can give you access to Bane that you can select in combat).

I would personally suggest ignoring the archetype and going vanilla fighter so you can choose Advanced Armor/Weapon training options.

[Guardianlord]

I theory built a fun Bolt-Ace/5 - Hunter/x character.

Human, for the bonus feats.
Rapid reload, precise shot, rapid shot, etc.

Light MWK crossbow (Underwater), upgrade later to heavy when you get free action reloads.

Hunter gets you a pet to defend you from rushes, or a permanent aspect to boost your skills/stats (Like darkvision, swim/climb bonuses, etc). And spells like gravity bow, abundant ammunition, and entangle.
Focus DEX and just enough WIS to cast spells, everything else is gravy.

With this and a few rounds of prep you can fire 1d8/1d10 adamantine silver blanch bolts infinitely as 2d6/2d8+DEX shots (19-20/x4), and use grit to target touch for strong targets. Lay out limited AOE debuffs to help with nimble targets, or buff your pet.
Vital strike/Deadly aim for even more devastating single target shots (4d6/4d8+DEX+4 Deadly Aim), which let you position easily to keep enemies out of cover.

[Claxon]

While I like the idea of having a pet, I personally don't like them for offense that much. Especially when they work much better as your mount/defender.

Using a animal companion as a mount makes your a mobile turret. Your mount can keep you out of danger and allow you to constantly full attack while (being) moved.

Personally I prefer Inquisitor because their class buffs to attack and damage, as well as personal buffing skill make it quite spectacular, and you can get a mount with the animal domain (feather sub-domain is a nice little boost for ranged attacks).

Only drawback is that animal domain gives companion at level -3, and you're multiclassing so it will be further behind.

So Hunter might be a better option if you want to go that route, so that the animal companion is survivable, but it will take boon companion feat to keep it so.

[Narrowascent]

Wow and this is why I love coming to the forum. So many ideas that I would never have thought of. Thanks Guardianlord, Claxon, and VoodistMonk. I might have to build each one out to see it made and see what I like more. Keep them coming if you have ideas. I love this!

I just found this looking through some other ideas on crossbowmen type builds:
Minotaur Double Crossbow http://shadowd20.pbworks.com/w/page/7520819/PRPGequipment_MinotaurDoubleCro ssbow

What do you guys think. Is it doable? :Evilgrin

[Claxon]

I didn't go to that link because I'm not familiar with the website, but if it's like the standard Double Crossbow which requires a move action (with rapid reload) to reload (both bolts) then it's basically a non-starter.

Your damage depends on making full attacks, anything that you can't reload as a free action is automatically worse than something you can.

The reason the Dwarven Pellet Bow was suggested above is because:
1) A bolt ace is automatically proficient with all crossbow, including exotic (this would apply to the minotaur crossbow too, but normally spending a feat on an exotic weapon isn't worth it)
2) The dwarven pellet bow, despite having a lower damage die, has a higher critical multiplier and can be reloaded as a light crossbow.

Normally reloading a light crossbow will be a move action, but you can downgrade that to a free with Rapid Reload and since the dwarven pellet bow is based off the light crossbow for reload you can full attack with it. At level 5 of bolt ace you will attack with a 1d6+dex damage weapon with a 19-20x4 crit. And on top of the 1d6+dex damage you'll have weapon enhancements, deadly aim, and rapid shot and probably other sources of damage too.

[VoodistMonk]

Here is the Elf Bolt Ace build from earlier continued into Arsenal Chaplain Warpriest to level 13...

Elf
... Crossbow Training replaces Weapon Familiarity

20pt buy (w/ racials)
11,17,12,12,15,10

Bolt Ace Gunslinger 5
... Heavy Dwarven PelletBow
...... 19-20/×4

1. Crossbow Maven
... mwk Heavy Dwarven PelletBow
1. Grit
1. Deeds
... Gunslinger's Dodge
... Sharp Shoot
... Vigilant Loading
1(level): Point Blank Shot

2. Nimble +1

3. Deeds
... Gunslinger's Initiative
... Pistol-Whip
... Shooter's Resolve
3(level): Precise Shot

4. Stat Bump: Dex +1 (18)
4(class): Weapon Focus

5. Crossbow Training
5(level): Rapid Shot

At 5:
BAB +5
Base Saves +4/+4/+1

Arsenal Chaplain Warpriest
6. Aura
6. Blessings
... War
6. Focus Weapon
6. Sacred Weapon
6. Spells

7. Fervor 1D6
7(level): Snap Shot

8. Stat Bump: Wis +1 (16)
8(class): Far Shot

9. Sacred Weapon +1
9(level): Weapon Trick

10. Weapon Training 1
10. Fervor 2D6

11(class): Overwatch Style
11(level): Overwatch Tactician

12(class): Quicken Blessing

13. Fervor 3D6
13. Sacred Weapon +2
13(level): Overwatch Vortex

At 13:
BAB +11
Base Saves +10/+6/+7
CL 8, 3rd level spells

At 14, you get a bonus feat, which could be Improved Critical for that sweet 17-20/×4... and that pretty much completes the build.

[Claxon]

Honestly, I would pick up improved critical much earlier.

Far shot isn't really a great choice, as you already have 60ft range and combats don't tend to get too crazy in distance simply because of map size.

You could pick up at the 3rd level of warpriest, because you can treat your BAB as your class level for the bonus feats granted by warpriest.

Doing so instead of Far Shot. I personally think it's a much better choice.

[VoodistMonk]

For sure, Improved Critical earlier would be better... Far Shot is just a burner feat to qualify for the Suppressing Shot part of Weapon Trick. In an effort to expand on the utility of readied actions from Overwatch Style/Tactician/Vortex...

[Claxon]

I see, I probably would shuffle things around still.

Suppressing shot isn't bad, but I personally would value the improved crit range more.

As personally the overwatch stuff would still be secondary to the normal full attack routine.

Multiple ranged readied attacks can be super nice, but piling a bunch of shots on a single enemy would still be my modus operandi if I were playing the character.

[VoodistMonk]

I was mistaken in my previous post... Warpriest gets Weapon Focus, so you can slot Far Shot in its spot. That allows Improved Critical at 8, right on schedule...

Elf
... Crossbow Training replaces Weapon Familiarity

20pt buy (w/ racials)
11,17,12,12,15,10

5D10 + 8D8 = 27.5 + 36 = 63 + 13 = 76

5 x (4+1):
Acrobatics (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Handle Animal (Cha), Heal (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (engineering) (Int), Knowledge (local) (Int), Perception (Wis), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Survival (Wis), and Swim (Str).

8 x (2+1):
Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Handle Animal (Cha), Heal (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (engineering) (Int), Knowledge (religion) (Int), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Sense Motive (Wis), Spellcraft (Int), Survival (Wis), and Swim (Str).

Bolt Ace Gunslinger 5
... Heavy Dwarven PelletBow
...... 17-20/×4

1. Crossbow Maven
... mwk Heavy Dwarven PelletBow
1. Grit
1. Deeds
... Gunslinger's Dodge
... Sharp Shoot
... Vigilant Loading
1(level): Point Blank Shot

2. Nimble +1

3. Deeds
... Gunslinger's Initiative
... Pistol-Whip
... Shooter's Resolve
3(level): Precise Shot

4. Stat Bump: Dex +1 (18)
4(class): Rapid Shot

5. Crossbow Training
5(level): Far Shot

At 5:
BAB +5
Base Saves +4/+4/+1

Arsenal Chaplain Warpriest
6. Aura
6. Blessings
... War
6. Focus Weapon
6. Sacred Weapon
6. Spells
6(class): Weapon Focus

7. Fervor 1D6
7(level): Snap Shot

8. Stat Bump: Wis +1 (16)
8(class): Improved Critical

9. Sacred Weapon +1
9(level): Weapon Trick

10. Weapon Training 1
... crossbows
10. Fervor 2D6

11(class): Overwatch Style
11(level): Overwatch Tactician

12. Stat Bump: Dex +1 (19)
12(class): Quicken Blessing

13. Fervor 3D6
13. Sacred Weapon +2
13(level): Overwatch Vortex

At 13:
BAB +11
Base Saves +10/+6/+7
CL 8, 3rd level spells

[Narrowascent]

Thanks guys a ton. You all have helped me go from this is an interesting idea to be excited to try this out in a game. Much appreciated

[Name Violation]

VoodistMonk wrote:

I was mistaken in my previous post... Warpriest gets Weapon Focus, so you can slot Far Shot in its spot. That allows Improved Critical at 8, right on schedule...

Elf
... Crossbow Training replaces Weapon Familiarity

20pt buy (w/ racials)
11,17,12,12,15,10

5D10 + 8D8 = 27.5 + 36 = 63 + 13 = 76

5 x (4+1):
Acrobatics (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Handle Animal (Cha), Heal (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (engineering) (Int), Knowledge (local) (Int), Perception (Wis), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Survival (Wis), and Swim (Str).

8 x (2+1):
Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Handle Animal (Cha), Heal (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (engineering) (Int), Knowledge (religion) (Int), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Sense Motive (Wis), Spellcraft (Int), Survival (Wis), and Swim (Str).

Bolt Ace Gunslinger 5
... Heavy Dwarven PelletBow
...... 17-20/×4

1. Crossbow Maven
... mwk Heavy Dwarven PelletBow
1. Grit
1. Deeds
... Gunslinger's Dodge
... Sharp Shoot
... Vigilant Loading
1(level): Point Blank Shot

2. Nimble +1

3. Deeds
... Gunslinger's Initiative
... Pistol-Whip
... Shooter's Resolve
3(level): Precise Shot

4. Stat Bump: Dex +1 (18)
4(class): Rapid Shot

5. Crossbow Training
5(level): Far Shot

At 5:
BAB +5
Base Saves +4/+4/+1

Arsenal Chaplain Warpriest
6. Aura
6. Blessings
... War
6. Focus Weapon
6. Sacred Weapon
6. Spells
6(class): Weapon Focus

7. Fervor 1D6
7(level): Snap Shot

8. Stat Bump: Wis +1 (16)
8(class): Improved Critical

9. Sacred Weapon +1
9(level): Weapon Trick

10. Weapon Training 1
... crossbows
10. Fervor 2D6

11(class): Overwatch Style
11(level): Overwatch Tactician

12. Stat Bump: Dex +1 (19)
12(class): Quicken Blessing

13. Fervor 3D6
13. Sacred Weapon +2
13(level): Overwatch Vortex

At 13:
BAB +11
Base Saves +10/+6/+7
CL 8, 3rd level spells

actually if you're gonna do all that, skip the elf part since a light and a heavy pellet bow will deal the same damage for you via sacred weapon and a light reloads as a free action anyway.

be half orc for luck bonus to saves and grab the human FCB for an extra feat from every 6 warpriest levels.
grab fates favored trait.

[Claxon]

NameViolation, he's using the Molthuni Arsenal Chaplain warpriest archetype so it losing the weapon damage scaling of Sacred Weapon.

That said, the difference between 1d4 and 1d6 weapon dice damage is negligible and the character will have so much more damage coming from other sources when it kicks in (the first 4 levels will be rough though since the only source of damage bonus will be deadly aim/point blank shot).

Playing an elf with crossbow training (and rapid reload) wont be necessary....

Just use a light pellet bow and play an orc with fates favored for when you get access to divine favor.

[Narrowascent]

So yes to Orc and No to elf? Am trying to make sure I understand correctly. Thanks again Claxon and Thanks NameViolation for the race suggestion.

[VoodistMonk]

Yeah, you can get away with being a Half-Orc with Sacred Tattoos/Fate's Favored and Shaman's Apprentice/Endurance, easy enough.

The Light Dwarven Pelletbow doesn't need Rapid Reload or the Elf's Crossbow Training alternative racial feature.

Everything else in the build posted still works the same.

[Narrowascent]

Thanks VoodistMonk

[Name Violation]

Claxon wrote:

NameViolation, he's using the Molthuni Arsenal Chaplain warpriest archetype so it losing the weapon damage scaling of Sacred Weapon.

That said, the difference between 1d4 and 1d6 weapon dice damage is negligible and the character will have so much more damage coming from other sources when it kicks in (the first 4 levels will be rough though since the only source of damage bonus will be deadly aim/point blank shot).

Playing an elf with crossbow training (and rapid reload) wont be necessary....

Just use a light pellet bow and play an orc with fates favored for when you get access to divine favor.

Sacred Weapon (Su)

The base damage of an arsenal chaplain’s sacred weapon does not increase above 1d6.

This ability alters sacred weapon

It will make a light and heavy pellet bow deal the same damage (both would be a d6). But the light bow reloads as a free action with no other investment.

Also, Rapid shot can be taken early. I'd probably take that before deadly aim

[Claxon]

Huh, I guess I never noticed that because it's so uncommon for weapon damage to be less than 1d6 for anything you would normally consider using.

So in this case, by going Arsenal Chaplain you make the light and heavy pellet bows deal the same damage.

So there is absolutely no reason to use the heavy pellet bow.

Still like a said, the difference between a d4 and a d6 is nothing so I wouldn't matter even if it didn't increase, IMO.

I would agree about taking rapid shot before deadly aim, but I was referring to increasing damage on a single attack roll. The reason to avoid deadly aim until after rapid shot is simply to get slightly more attack bonus.

Although I think with the bonus feats you end up with you'll have both by 3rd level.

[Narrowascent]

Thanks again Name Violation and Claxon. Ok then I think that the Bolt Ace / Arsenal Warpriest Champion looks like a really fun build. Appreciate all the help you all gave!

[Mokshai]

Where can I find the pellet bow ??

[Claxon]

Mokshai wrote:

Where can I find the pellet bow ??

Here and also here

But also more specifically: Pathfinder Player Companion: Heroes from the Fringe

[Mokshai]

Thank you.

[Narrowascent]

Ok I am trying to figure out something from the build. Where am I getting a crit on the pellet bow down to 17-20 from 19-20. I know I am missing something but can't find it

[VoodistMonk]

Improved Critical feat, use your level 8 bonus feat for it if you stay in Gunslinger past 5...

[Narrowascent]

Ok cool you did have it there under Arsenal chaplain lvl 8 part. Sorry must have been blind

[Narrowascent]

Ok I know I am sort of necroing on my own post here but it is about this build. I think I messed up my BAB because it is my first time multiclassing. I am now lvl 8 already into the Arsenal Chaplain which btw is amazing thanks so much all for suggesting this build. But my BAB is coming out as +7 +2 with 3 levels into Arsenal Chaplain which means I am unable to take Improved Critical because it has a requirement of +8. What am I missing. I was having a hard time finding out how to calculate my bab and saves with a multiclass and I may have understood it wrong but I understood to just add them. IE>

Gunslinger: BAB 5 Fort: 4 Ref: 4 Will: 4
Warpriest: BAB 2 Fort: 3 Ref: 1 Will: 3

Total: BAB 7 Fort: 7 Ref: 5 Will: 7

Am I missing something?

[Wonderstell]

Warpriest wrote:

Bonus Feats: At 3rd level and every 3 levels thereafter, a warpriest gains a bonus feat in addition to those gained from normal advancement. These bonus feats must be selected from those listed as combat feats. The warpriest must meet the prerequisites for these feats, but he treats his warpriest level as his base attack bonus (in addition to base attack bonuses gained from other classes and Hit Dice) for the purpose of qualifying for these feats. Finally, for the purposes of these feats, the warpriest can select feats that have a minimum number of fighter levels as a prerequisite, treating his warpriest level as his fighter level.

Your BAB is +7 at Gunslinger 5 / Warpriest 3.

But for the purpose of choosing your Warpriest Bonus Feat, you are treated as having +8 BAB.

[Narrowascent]

Ok Thanks Wonderstell. I had not caught that. I appreciate it.

[*Khan*]

Beaware that it is only the Warpriest bonus feats which has that advantage. Your normal feats do not.

[Dragonchess Player]

If you want to mix casting with crossbow use, you might want to look at gunslinger (bolt ace) 5/occultist X; select Abjuration (shield implement - buckler) and Transmutation (weapon implement - crossbow*) as your implement schools at 1st level occultist and select Trappings of the Warrior panoply as your "implement" choice at 2nd level occultist for functionally full BAB (including iterative attacks) with your "signature" crossbow.

The "free" bonus from the Transmutation implement school resonant power can be used on Dex and goes up to +6 at gunslinger 5/occultist 12. Plus the Legacy Weapon base focus power can be used to add any magic ability (such as bane**, distance, etc.) that could be useful at the start of a fight. Abjuration is less immediately good, but the resonant power can free up the shoulder slot for some useful magic items (such as a cloak of elvenkind for a sniper) that would otherwise be disregarded in favor of a cloak of resistance. Another good implement school choice to look at after Trappings of the Warrior would be Divination for the amazing resonant power Third Eye: bonus to Perception checks, low-light vision, darkvision, see invisibility(!), and blindsense lasting all day as you gain levels and invest more mental focus (as long as you don't use all the focus points). The Sudden Insight base focus power is also useful to get a sudden bonus on "any ability check, attack roll, or skill check".

Unfortunately, occultist is an Int-based caster which can make the character somewhat MAD. The relic hunter inquisitor can cast on Wis instead of Int, but would need to wait until gunslinger 5/inquisitor 4 to select Trappings of the Warrior. The backstory for the crossbow and the character's personality (to be compatible with a specific deity) will be somewhat more restricted, as well.

You may want to ask about retraining the arsenal chaplain warpriest levels for relic hunter inquisitor levels. Inquisitor also gets more skills for doing stuff other than shooting a crossbow.

*- just add some backstory on "historical value or... personal significance" to the masterwork crossbow you start with
**- whatever creature type you may be fighting

[rorek55]

This has made me want to try a warpriest of Abadar that uses a light crossbow..