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I only have the basics at the moment, Seeking ideas and advice on potentially good archetypes for wizard or cleric.
Why cleric first-
More hp, armor, healing, all nice things for surviving the early levels.
con- no potential of RP for the wizard finding true faith?
Ability score, 25pt buy-
Human (dual talented trait)
Str: 08
Dex: 14
Con: 14
Int: 17(+2)(+5 ability improvement over 20 levels)
Wis: 18(+2)
Cha: 10
Traits:
Magical Knack
levels 1-3
Cleric of Nethys
Domains:
Magic(arcane)
????
Wizard 4-6
Arcane school:
Divination(forsight)
7-16 Mystic Theurge
17-20 Wizard.
Feats-
1- Spell focus (evocation or Conjuration)
3- Craft Wondrous Items
4- scribe scroll
5- Spell specialization
7- Empower spell?
9- Spell Penetration
11- Greater spell specialization
13- Heighten spell?
15+???
alternatively, I could grab spell focus and greater spell focus for a few schools.
I really, REALLY, like Chronomancer as an archetype for the wizard (and for builds that use it as a dip). The ability to 'rewind' a spell that has no effect and have it prepared as if you never cast it? Priceless.
Why cleric first-
More hp, armor, healing, all nice things for surviving the early levels.con- no potential of RP for the wizard finding true faith?
Your armor proficiencies quickly end up wasted, since your wizard spellcasting would still be subject to arcane spell failure.
So you can start as a wizard, if it serves you RP-wise and just prepare Mage Armor.Also I'd recommend a cleric archetype that replaces the obsolete armor (& weapon) proficiencies with something more useful in the long term:
Channeler of the Unknown for RP-friends
Cloistered Cleric for more knowledge and potentially Scribe Scroll when taken to level 4
Ecclesitheurge for a dual-bonded object
Herald Caller taken to level 4 for powerful summons
Varisian Pilgrim if you have a strong domain power
+2 Int, +2 Wis; Samsarans get that. If you don't mind being blue it's an option which gives you actual race abilities (which may or may not include mystic past life.)
8 Str and medium armor is a true pain at low levels. Not a major plus IMO.
The other main entry to mystic theurge is wizard 7 / cleric (or living grimoire inquisitor) 1 with the faith magic arcane discovery. That makes a wizard with a little divine casting rather than an equal mix of both of course, if the concept is the latter never mind this idea.
Metamagic is not your friend when you're a spell level and a half behind already. You're a prepared spellcaster on both sides, pick good spells instead. If you must use metamagic get craft rod instead.
Getting a body between you and the enemy however fragile might be useful. You could get a figment familiar.
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the cleric and arcane discovery is interesting, and.. I suppose that it works?
Much less painful to play through as well I would bet.
The other idea if that works, play a cleric with magic domain, then take one level of wizard after level 3. You can cast magic mouth as a domain spell, which is a 2nd level arcane spell. Does that work?
The other idea if that works, play a cleric with magic domain, then take one level of wizard after level 3. You can cast magic mouth as a domain spell, which is a 2nd level arcane spell. Does that work?
No. Spells cast using Cleric spell slots are Divine spells, and spells cast using Wizard spell slots are Arcane spells. The spell itself is irrelevant.
The reason Faith Magic woeks is because it specifically calls itself out as being a Divine spell:
: Select one spell granted by a domain belonging to the god you worship. This spell must be at least 2 levels lower than the highest-level wizard spell you can cast. When you first prepare your spells for the day, you can prepare this spell once, using a spell slot 1 level higher than the spell’s actual level. This is cast as a divine spell.
I think it does work, but being 3.5 spell levels behind makes the divine spellcasting not very important. The class abilities of mystic theurge are interesting that way but not necessarily character defining.
Half-Elves get an alternate racial feature called multidisciplined which might be worth looking into.
Source Horror Adventures pg. 39
Born to two races, half-elves have a knack for combining different magical traditions. If a half-elf with this racial trait has spellcasting abilities from at least two different classes, the effects of spells she casts from all her classes are calculated as though her caster level were 1 level higher, to a maximum of her character level. This racial trait replaces multitalented.
Half-Elves get an alternate racial feature called multidisciplined which might be worth looking into.
Source Horror Adventures pg. 39
Born to two races, half-elves have a knack for combining different magical traditions. If a half-elf with this racial trait has spellcasting abilities from at least two different classes, the effects of spells she casts from all her classes are calculated as though her caster level were 1 level higher, to a maximum of her character level. This racial trait replaces multitalented.
As does the trait Bifurcated Magic help with those caster levels. Taking that race trait along with the alternate racial trait Multidisciplined means you can keep up with most single classed casters, if not with their actual spell level.
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Mystic Theurge always looks cool on paper, but playing one you have a lot of painful low levels of suckage to get through. The big problem is what do you do in combat? You have 1/2bab, so it'd be tough to build to effectively hit anything. You have 3 levels lower than other spellcasters so your highest spells are 1 or 2 levels behind (depending on if you're on an even or odd level). This also translates to your save DCs being 1 or 2 lower, so your chance to land spells is also bad. Combined spells is awful, you can take your already reduced casting and reduce it even further? No thanks, but at level 16 your capstone prc ability is amazing... once per day. This relegates most mystic theurge builds to buffs and healing, but then why aren't you playing the much superior bard if that's what you want to do?
Not trying to talk you out of it, but I've seen a lot of disappointed mystic theurge players who thought the class would be a lot cooler than it turns out in play.
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Mystic Theurge is the cornerstone of the ultimate Necromancer...
1-4. JuJu Oracle
5-7. Gravewalker Witch
8-9. Mystic Theurge
10-14. Agent of the Grave
15-20. Mystic Theurge
At 20:
BAB +10
Base saves +8/+7/+14
Spontaneous Casting (Oracle):
CL 16, 8th level spells
Prepared Casting (Witch):
CL 11, 6th level spells
Ligerally hundreds and hundreds of HD worth of Undead at your disposal...
We don't support the idea of Undead being at anyone's disposal, but as always the Thread Necromancer's Guild supports Necromancy in all its forms.
That's clearly a qualified professional though TNG, indeed dual-qualified. Not just anyone!
As wizard archetypes, I'd recommend First World Caller + optionally Thassilonian Specialist. Both archetypes add benefits independent of the wizard-level:
Fey Summoner is a universal benefit that applies even to your cleric summon spells and items. Your familiar gets a great upgrade with the fey-touched template [change shape to small/medium humanoid].
Drawbacks:
Scribe Scroll feat lost, but Augment Summoning is much better as you avoid the useless Spell Focus Conjuration feat tax - you can always take Scribe Scroll again still saving you 1 feat in the process.
Arcane School is lost, but since you are stuck at wizard level 3 for most of your life and never reach 8th wizard level even Divination (Foresight) is not a strong power [+1 to initiative; Perception should be high anyway; Prescience is fickle].
The Thassilonian Specialist gives you 2 more spell slots each spell level and you can always cover the forbidden schools with your cleric casting. As a mystic theurge you could even prepare your cleric spells in the school spell slots of the wizard.
If you're looking for a more SAD build as a prepared caster, try the Feyspeaker-Druid with the Seducer-Witch?
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That's clearly a qualified professional though TNG, indeed dual-qualified. Not just anyone!
Each member of the Guild is triple certified (Reanimation, Posting Etiquette, and Workforce Regulations), but none of us would ever consider our undead brethren to be objects for disposal. That's a deeply engrained vitalist worldview we cannot support.