We are playing a pirate based campaign, so I made a Swashbuckler with good Dexterity and Charisma. It occurred to me that Ninjas use the same stats, so I have been making a multiclass build.
We are currently level 3 and just leveled up. I could use advice on what to do.
Race: Skinwalker (Fanglord) - great stats, being weretiger-kin lets us get some cool feats later, +10 movement speed and the Jump spell 1/day lets us do daring deeds.
Str: 8
Dex: 18
Con: 12
Int: 10
Wis: 12
Cha: 16
My current plan is to take 1st level in Swashbuckler for weapon finesse and Panache, 2 levels in Ninja for Ki and Ninja Tricks, and 4 more levels in Swashbuckler for bonus feats and Panache.
Level 1: Swashbuckler (Inspired Blade) - d10 hit dice, weapon finesse and weapon focus at level 1, and take Fencing Grace for dex to damage at level 1.
Level 2: Ninja - d8 hit dice, but 8 skills per level help utilize the Dex and Cha skills that Swashbuckler gets but doesn't have points for. Investing in Disable Device basically lets me be an off-brand rogue.
Level 3: Ninja - Ki Pool and first Ninja Trick (Vanishing Trick)
Feat: Extra Ninja Trick (Forgotten Trick) - since we won't be getting more ninja tricks with class progression, this lets us have some versatility.
The benefits of this build is that I can use Vanishing Trick as a swift action to turn invisible at any time. Using it at the start of my turn lets me charge in and sneak attack, or using it at the end of my turn lets me be invisible during enemy turns and get sneak attack at the start of my next turn.
My plan is to get Dazzling Display and the weretiger specific feat "Violent Display" which gives a free Dazzling Display whenever I get a crit or sneak attack. At level 7 I will have Improved Crit Range for rapiers from Swash 5, and with Vanishing Trick I will constantly be Dazzling Display'ing.
Bonus: Weapon Finesse Rapier (from Swashbuckler)
Bonus: Weapon Focus, Rapier (from Inspired Blade)
1st: Fencing Grace - Dex to Damage
3rd: Extra Ninja Trick - Forgotten Trick gives access to more tricks
5th: Undecided?
6th: (Bonus 4th Level Swashbuckler) Dazzling Display (Can't take earlier due to BAB restrictions)
7th: Violent Display - Weretiger feat that gives Dazzling Display on Sneak attack or crit. Which we will do frequently with a rapier and Vanishing Trick
9th: Motivating Display - Weretiger feat that gives bonuses to allies with Dazzling Display
11th: Shatter Defenses - Flat Foot AC vs Shaken enemies means more sneak attacks and more Dazzling Displays
What feat should I take at 5th level?
What should my class order be? (Is 1 Swash, 2 Ninja, 4 Swash good?)
I think you're going to burn thru ki so fast with vanishing trick that forgotten trick (which requires even more ki) will be unusable.
Dazzling display's only prereq is weapon focus. No BAB required.
Other feats: you qualify for fighter bonus feats with swash levels and weapon specialization could be useful at level 6. You might get extra ki; forgotten trick will probably still be too expensive to use, but swift action vanish is very useful. Combat reflexes is occasionally useful in a tight spot. If you can't decide what feat to get then barroom brawler gives you 1/day martial flexibility. Disheartening display may be more useful than motivating display.
There's nothing wrong with taking the class levels in that order.
I think you're going to burn thru ki so fast with vanishing trick that forgotten trick (which requires even more ki) will be unusable.
True, what I've been doing is making poison at the end of the day if I haven't been using any feats. The lack of Ki is a problem though.
Dazzling display's only prereq is weapon focus. No BAB required.
My mistake. I was thinking of Violent Display which needs BAB +6 and with Ninja 3/4 BAB progression I will only have that at 7th level. Dazzling Display would need to be taken at either 5th or 6th level.
Other feats: you qualify for fighter bonus feats with swash levels and weapon specialization could be useful at level 6. You might get extra ki; forgotten trick will probably still be too expensive to use, but swift action vanish is very useful. Combat reflexes is occasionally useful in a tight spot. If you can't decide what feat to get then barroom brawler gives you 1/day martial flexibility.
I forgot I qualified for fighter feats, which opens up a lot more feat options. Extra Ki and Combat Reflexes are very good static upgrades. Barroom Brawler is very cool and I'm gonna look at what feats I could use it to get.
I had also thought about taking Accomplished Sneak Attacker to get a little more sneak attack power, but I'm not sure if it's worth it.
Disheartening display may be more useful than motivating display.
Holy moly, this works so well with Violent Display. Definitely replacing Motivating Display with this.
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I'd recommend asking your GM to apply unchained rogue changes to the Ninja, RAW they are the same class, as RAW you cannot multiclass them. By that logic, additions to the rogue should be added to the Ninja. That's my two cents anyway.
-forgotten trick is neat on paper, until you realize 1, it cost 2 ki points to use, THEN you have to pay the ki cost of whatever trick you spent 2 to gain access too. Not worth it unless you are in a "high power" game with higher stats and gold.
I honestly would just stick with ninja after the 1st level dip into swash. Even if your GM is silly (imo) and doesn't allow for my first recommendation. But that's because I've always enjoyed the ninja. They have a lot of tools for combat. Ranging from "fog spells" varying from vision-poison-choking, haste+displacement self buff for 1 ki point, invisibility/greater invisibility. And plenty of tricks you can pick to sure up other areas/increase your strengths.
with an 8 str, i hope you never have to look at wearing a chain shirt, or carrying most gear without an extradimensional space
That's what teammates are for.
Swashbuckler sticks with light armor, gets "Nimble" bonuses to AC when wearing light armor, and I don't want to wear heavy armor in case I get knocked overboard on the high seas.
-forgotten trick is neat on paper, until you realize 1, it cost 2 ki points to use, THEN you have to pay the ki cost of whatever trick you spent 2 to gain access too.
I currently get 4 ki per day (3 Cha + 1/2 Ninja level). So far, on days where I don't use any ki I can prepare poison before bed that lasts 24 hours with "Ki Venom" and use it the next day with my full ki. In theory, on other days, I can spend 3 ki (2 for Forgotten Trick + 1 for the trick) to gain other tricks in an emergency and still have 1 ki left over for Vanishing Trick.
Is there a way to get Ki/Panache?
Lots of ki info here:
Resource Pool: kiCheapest way for you is to have a friendly priest of Irori have the Ki Channel feat. and then you can gain [multiple] ki instead of healing for a channel.
If you worship Irori, a Bronze gong can convert any channel into 1 ki for you. The Meditation crystal is cheaper, and less restrictive on faith, but does not list ninja for regaining ki.
/cevah
I wouldn't spend any more resources on enabling a single d6 of sneak attack.
He isn't. The sneak attack enables the Dazzling Display and later the Motivating Display or Disheartening Display.
Precise Strike can be used as a way to get +1d6 precision damage.
/cevah
Sorry, replying to Scott - I should have made it clear
The sneak attack enables the Dazzling Display and later the Motivating Display or Disheartening Display.
Indeed, I want to become the captain at some point and lead my crew in charges to capture ships. The sneak attack lets me proc Dazzling Display with Violent Display.
I was also thinking of taking Improved Feint to do more sneak attacks, since crits aren't a reliable way of getting Violent Display.
Scott Wilhelm recommended taking Canny Tumble to get consistent sneak attacks, but it needs Dodge and Mobility as feat Prerequisites and that seems like a lot to invest.
Good UMD can let you use wands [especially with your CHA bonus]. Summons make great flanking buddies. Flanking makes sneak attack. While wands are expensive, they are a reliable way to generate more bodies by yourself.
Having a party caster do the summons can help even more since their summons usually last longer.
Playing in the Return of the Rune Lords campaign, I made a Rune Guardian (sloth). The standard one for Sloth has an At Will Summon Monster I (CL3), which means they can generate a flanking buddy every turn on your turn so you always have a flanking buddy that lasts long enough to ensure you get a sneak attack. Price: 6,500 gp. Cost: 3,500 gp.
Hide the Rune Guardian on the mast, and no one will notice it, especially if other things like it are there. When not noticed, it will not be targeted. By the time you can easily afford it, you will be set up to really profit from your feats.
My GM let me make an advanced one that did SM2 (CL7) w/6HD. That let me get Giant Spiders which can attack with webs to entangle, and to attack with minor elementals which can be quite useful to overcome resistances. It also let me summon 1d3 lesser creatures. I traded out Improved Initiative for Spell Focus (conjuration). And with the extra feats from more HD, I got Augmented Summoning and Superior Summoning. Giving me 1d3+1 lesser creatures with +4 STR and +4 CON making for more and tougher creatures. Keep it in a Familiar Satchel to protect it, and it can still generate creatures for you.
The biggest problem is in number of bodies to process in combat. In the higher levels, I treated them as basically: if hit, it dies; if it's attack is not a natural 20, it misses. Made for fast combat play with the summons.
EDIT: The above needs only gp investment. If you want to look for feat investment, check out Shadows of Fear (Combat). It needs 2d6 sneak attack, but there are ways to get that, such as one more level of Ninja.
/cevah
Why go inspired blade when you have weak intelligence and decent cha.
I don't see the benefit?
Weapon Focus on top of Weapon Finesse... alllows for Fencing Grace (Dex-to-damage) at level 1.