I was really excited for swashbuckler in the apg, but in building and play, i have been very unimpressed.
It is too swingy, inconsistent. When i play it i feel i am relegated to the RNG gods to a much greater degree than to the base core classes, to the point where it loses nearly all its appeal to me.
nothing makes me saltier then spending 2+ entire rounds being useless because i need to succeed on a roll before i can do my stuff that also requires succeeding at a roll.
But i am open to being convinced i am missing something and repeatedly building my swashbucklers wrong.
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If you don't consider the actions you are using to get Panache valuable in their own right, past the very first few levels anyway, then Swashbuckler is probably not gonna be your cup of tea.
If, on the other hand, the things you're doing for Panache are worthwhile debuffs or similar things in their own right, then even when you miss with your attack you're accomplishing something.
In terms of RNG, I'll also note that Fencers and maybe Gymnasts are more at its mercy than others, and its influence becomes less of an issue the higher in level you rise. So what level and what type of Swashbuckler were you?
Precise Finisher is also a great Feat for limiting the amount RNG can mess you up. Doing full finisher damage on a miss is a pretty big deal.
If you don't consider the actions you are using to get Panache valuable in their own right, past the very first few levels anyway, then Swashbuckler is probably not gonna be your cup of tea.
If, on the other hand, the things you're doing for Panache are worthwhile debuffs or similar things in their own right, then even when you miss with your attack you're accomplishing something.
In terms of RNG, I'll also note that Fencers and maybe Gymnasts are more at its mercy than others, and its influence becomes less of an issue the higher in level you rise. So what level and what type of Swashbuckler were you?
Precise Finisher is also a great Feat for limiting the amount RNG can mess you up. Doing full finisher damage on a miss is a pretty big deal.
That's actually not the issue per say. Though it is tied. The issue is I have to roll and succeed at the activity to gain panache before I can roll for any of your unique finisher type actions.
So you have to roll to succeed at your activity to roll be allowed to roll to succeed at your strike
The end result felt unpredictable and therefore unreliable.
I maxed out at level 6 and gave up on him. I was a gymnast. Goblin and took the ancestry for+2 to tumble.
Even with that, one low roll and my turn was shot, meanwhile a low roll with another martial just meant to be that I'd try the same thing again, or try something else entirely. With swashbuckler rather it feels like my turn basically stop's.
As a gymnast, with three actions you can:
Without panache attempt to tumble,
on success use a finisher then tumble again.
On a failure try to trip/grapple, on a failure try again or try to tumble. On a success strike.
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So you have to roll to succeed at your activity to roll be allowed to roll to succeed at your strikeEven with that, one low roll and my turn was shot, meanwhile a low roll with another martial just meant to be that I'd try the same thing again, or try something else entirely. With swashbuckler rather it feels like my turn basically stop's.
I think you are overestimating the impact. Even without panache you can still make strikes. It won't have the added benefits, but it will still do the basic benefits.
Unless I am missing something, there is nothing saying that if you miss your skill check to gain panache you can't just immediately try again. For some, like tumble through, it wouldn't work so well. But if tumble through fails, try feint. Failing a roll is certainly a setback, but it is for any class. It doesn't mean that your entire turn is shot.
To compare with other martial characters: 'a low roll just means to try the same thing again'. I'm assuming that the 'thing' that the other martial is doing is a strike. If you get a low roll on a strike, you can certainly try the strike again - but you are going to be doing it with an additional stage of MAP. Making it even more likely that you are going to fail. At some point you are going to realize that you are just going to swing and miss for this entire turn, do something defensive instead, and wait for next turn. So again, failing a roll is a setback.
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If you want to play a SB then do. If you don't like it, then don't play one. Why do you need somebody to "convince" you?
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That's actually not the issue per say. Though it is tied. The issue is I have to roll and succeed at the activity to gain panache before I can roll for any of your unique finisher type actions.
You do. But you can also spend another action to try again. The odds of failing two attempts at Panache gain in a round are really quite low.
So you have to roll to succeed at your activity to roll be allowed to roll to succeed at your strike
Yep. Of course, as I mentioned, with Precise Finisher even if you 'fail' the Strike your damage winds up as good as many people's successes.
The end result felt unpredictable and therefore unreliable.
To some extent it is. But there are a number of ways to mitigate that, or gain benefits even if you fail some of the checks in question. It's not sounding like you used them, which is what I was getting at.
Additionally, your odds of success on Panache gain go steadily up as you rise in level, which is also relevant.
I maxed out at level 6 and gave up on him. I was a gymnast. Goblin and took the ancestry for+2 to tumble.
As I mentioned, Gymnast is swingier than many other Swashbucklers since its unique Panache gain stuff is actually all attacks, making it trickier to gain Panache, and its unique Panache gains don't debuff AC, which aids in the reliability of finishers for those Swashbuckers whose panache gains do that.
Even with that, one low roll and my turn was shot, meanwhile a low roll with another martial just meant to be that I'd try the same thing again, or try something else entirely. With swashbuckler rather it feels like my turn basically stop's.
You can retry for Panache until you get it. Since most turns you want Panache + One Attack, you have two chances to try and gain it before your turn winds up 'wasted'. The odds of failing on both are real low if you've optimized for Panache gain, which you should. It can happen, in which case a normal attack is an option to salvage something, but it's gonna be rare to begin with and get rarer as you level.
This is a bit harder for Gymnast specifically due to only having ready access to Tumble Through for Panache gain in many situations, but it works fine for literally all other Swashbucklers.
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I feel like the main draw of the gymnast is that you can be an incredible tripper, etc. once you hit level 10 with Derring-Do. For the "cycle in and out of panache to trigger finishers" playstyle the other styles are kind of better.
So you have to roll to succeed at your activity to roll be allowed to roll to succeed at your strikeEven with that, one low roll and my turn was shot, meanwhile a low roll with another martial just meant to be that I'd try the same thing again, or try something else entirely. With swashbuckler rather it feels like my turn basically stop's.
I think you are overestimating the impact. Even without panache you can still make strikes. It won't have the added benefits, but it will still do the basic benefits.
Unless I am missing something, there is nothing saying that if you miss your skill check to gain panache you can't just immediately try again. For some, like tumble through, it wouldn't work so well. But if tumble through fails, try feint. Failing a roll is certainly a setback, but it is for any class. It doesn't mean that your entire turn is shot.
To compare with other martial characters: 'a low roll just means to try the same thing again'. I'm assuming that the 'thing' that the other martial is doing is a strike. If you get a low roll on a strike, you can certainly try the strike again - but you are going to be doing it with an additional stage of MAP. Making it even more likely that you are going to fail. At some point you are going to realize that you are just going to swing and miss for this entire turn, do something defensive instead, and wait for next turn. So again, failing a roll is a setback.
Except with other martials you don't have the extra action sink. Closest one is rogue, and flat footed is easier to be given them generating panache.
A ranger, barbarian, fighter, monk. They attack. They might have a once per combat setup, or once per target. But after that their rounds are filled with open ended choices of what you want to do at that time.
Swashbuckler trades that potential for having 2 options you must gun for whenever you don't have panache. One subclass specific. One general.
Making a strike without panache, is admitting defeat in that round. They you failed, at least twice, to generate your basic class feature. Most likely this was outside of your control as well.
So I dunno. Feels better to just miss than not even getting to the point of missing because you failed your preroll.
So maybe the class I was most excited for in the APG isn't for me afterall. A little saddened by that but it is what it is.
If you want to play a SB then do. If you don't like it, then don't play one. Why do you need somebody to "convince" you?
How quaint.
I wanted and did play one. But no matter how I'd build or play one I felt like I was forced into binary pre roll steps to use my class abilities. So jumping through hoops. I feel ineffective.
That's actually not the issue per say. Though it is tied. The issue is I have to roll and succeed at the activity to gain panache before I can roll for any of your unique finisher type actions.You do. But you can also spend another action to try again. The odds of failing two attempts at Panache gain in a round are really quite low.
So you have to roll to succeed at your activity to roll be allowed to roll to succeed at your strikeYep. Of course, as I mentioned, with Precise Finisher even if you 'fail' the Strike your damage winds up as good as many people's successes.
The end result felt unpredictable and therefore unreliable.To some extent it is. But there are a number of ways to mitigate that, or gain benefits even if you fail some of the checks in question. It's not sounding like you used them, which is what I was getting at.
Additionally, your odds of success on Panache gain go steadily up as you rise in level, which is also relevant.
I maxed out at level 6 and gave up on him. I was a gymnast. Goblin and took the ancestry for+2 to tumble.As I mentioned, Gymnast is swingier than many other Swashbucklers since its unique Panache gain stuff is actually all attacks, making it trickier to gain Panache, and its unique Panache gains don't debuff AC, which aids in the reliability of finishers for those Swashbuckers whose panache gains do that.
Even with that, one low roll and my turn was shot, meanwhile a low roll with another martial just meant to be that I'd try the same thing again, or try something else entirely. With swashbuckler rather it feels like my turn basically stop's.You can retry for Panache until you get it. Since most turns you want Panache + One Attack, you have two chances to try and gain it before your turn winds up 'wasted'. The odds of failing on both are real low if you've optimized for...
Tell that to the multiple times I had multiple rounds with nothing to do but use my last action on 1d6+4 damage (2d6+4 at level 5) because I failed at generating panache twice in a row.
Retrying panache feels like gambling when all I want to do is select Wich action is best for me at the time, not have to jump through hoops to use my abilities.
But I guess that does make sb not for me
It's not that I don't care about the actions that generate panache. It's that I have 2 options to generate it. One is tumble and the other is subclass specific. The problem I run into is there are turns where I wouldn't want to do either. But if I don't have panache I feel forced to make a stupid decision. Wich makes me feel really bad if I feel forced to make a dumb choice and still fail at said choice!
But that way would be simply worse than a combatant, and even worse than a rogue, which might deliver 3x sneak attack per round given the requirements.
Not to say that the game would force you to play not Finisher + attack but attack + finisher ( less chances to hit and crit with your finisher ).
A lvl 13 character ( and it has to be noticed that 70% of the time rogue and swashbuckler will deal the same precision damage ) will be something like
4d6 extra damage on 1 attack ( then you can't attack anymore )
3d6 extra damage on 3 attacks ( rogue ).
Relly inferior in terms of versatility, damage, and possibilities.
Now I really share the same feelings toward this class ( people should be complaining about this and not the magus or the summoner ).
If all you care about is damage, then Swashbuckler is not for you. You'll be most of the time behind Barbarians, Fighters and Rogues (by 15% roughly). But if you do care about your Swashbuckling actions, then it's very different.
Swashbucklers are awesome at a few actions that have nothing to do with damage. Derring-Do makes them the best at what they do. Feats like Dueling Dance or One For All are just crazy excellent.Also, as stated above, Swashbucklers are a bit swingy at low level due to the rolls you need to succeed at gaining Panache. But the higher the level and the easiest it is (at level 20, against a same level enemy, you will in general need a 3 on the die to get your Panache). Swashbucklers, like casters, tend to be a bit tough to play before level 7 (and Master Acrobatics).
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The swashbuckler is a brilliantly designed class in that the mechanics strongly encourage you to act like a swashbuckler.
As a result, it will only really be "fun" if you WANT to play like a swashbuckler and do all the frankly quite silly things that a swashbuckler constantly does.
Mechanically, in terms of raw damage it is probably a little weaker than another martial. It makes up for that with mobility and enhanced non damage combat ability (details depending on type of swashbuckler).
But yeah, bad dice rolls can shut it down a bit harder than say a fighter.
And it kinda sucks against some opponents. Avoid The Slithering!!!!!
But despite all the issues I'm loving my battle dancer. It's just fun. And, mechanically, more than good enough to fill its role.
Not gonna play The Slithering with it though. That I personally would not find fun.
The swashbuckler is a brilliantly designed class in that the mechanics strongly encourage you to act like a swashbuckler.
As a result, it will only really be "fun" if you WANT to play like a swashbuckler and do all the frankly quite silly things that a swashbuckler constantly does.
Mechanically, in terms of raw damage it is probably a little weaker than another martial. It makes up for that with mobility and enhanced non damage combat ability (details depending on type of swashbuckler).
But yeah, bad dice rolls can shut it down a bit harder than say a fighter.
And it kinda sucks against some opponents. Avoid The Slithering!!!!!
But despite all the issues I'm loving my battle dancer. It's just fun. And, mechanically, more than good enough to fill its role.
Not gonna play The Slithering with it though. That I personally would not find fun.
I guess I have different values these days. I want to be able to make the smart play and if I make a dumb one it's because I made a mistake, not felt they my role play is being taken from me to enforce bad tactics.
I agree there is some white rooming here, but I also see that many points about the class itself are more or less a "meh", and have nothing to do with being in the mood of playing a swashbuckler or not being able to appreciate the class perks/advantages.
I made quite some white rooming in the quick guide about the Swashbuckler and on the subject speaking about it:
Quick Guide to the SwashbucklerIt may answer some question asked here. Especially the comparison between a triple Sneak Attack and a single Finisher (the Rogue will do 38% extra damage compared to a single Finisher, roughly).
There's something off here, or it's me the one who missed something.
a lvl 13 character comparison
Rogue with 2 sneak attacks
3d8 ( weapon ) + 6 ( str+spec ) + 3d6 ( sneak attack ) x2
vs
3d8 ( weapon ) + 6 ( str+spec ) + 4d6 ( Finisher ) x1
Even a 2 sneak attack pattern is way better than a finisher ( 3 attacks would increase the gap further, even if slightly given the map ).
Did I miss anything?
Let's make the calculation:
Swashbuckler: 3d8 + 6 + 4d6 + 4d6 (extra damage from Finisher, either bleeding or damage on a miss) = 47.5 average damage.Rogue: 3d8 + 6 + 3d6 = 30 * 1.8 = 54 average damage on 3 attacks.
So, I think you missed something, yes. Certainly the fact that a second attack is 55% of a first attack and a third attack 25% of a first attack.
Average damage is the only thing I care, as "max damage" is just a useless comparison.
Yes but as teamwork, debuffs, etc start to be incorporated more, the rogue in that example pulls even further ahead at a faster rate due to finishers disallowing you to attack again.
Plus a rogue can choose to do those things a swashbuckler does to gain panache but isn't necessarily beholden to them to function yes?
Maybe I should have chosen rogue.
It's not that I don't care about the actions that generate panache. It's that I have 2 options to generate it. One is tumble and the other is subclass specific. The problem I run into is there are turns where I wouldn't want to do either. But if I don't have panache I feel forced to make a stupid decision. Wich makes me feel really bad if I feel forced to make a dumb choice and still fail at said choice!i think the problem stems from picking a style that you find its actions "dumb choices".
My player has no issue using bon mot or one for all when he doesnt want to move, or using tubling when he does want to move. Neither of those are (either in mine or his opinion) dumb choices to do as an action.
That said, there has been some times already that he has gone purely for the swashbuckling approach just because that's what he loves to do, stuff
like swinging down from a tapestry to the lower floor in a mansion and jumping over a raging river to preemtively close the escape route of my villain, are the two instances that i remember that he went for a "hard check to get panache" while doing something flamboyant.
I guess I usually build my characters able to do multiple things (more than 2) and to feel like I'm both limited to 2 as well as my performance tied to a preroll feels bad to me. The other classes I've played I get to pick and choose the right tools for the moment. I don't feel I get that opportunity with swashbuckler.
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I guess I have different values these days. I want to be able to make the smart play and if I make a dumb one it's because I made a mistake, not felt they my role play is being taken from me to enforce bad tactics.
That isn't what I meant.
Mechanically, a swashbuckler is built so that the smart play IS to spend actions to both get Panache and to influence the battlefield with those actions.
If that isn't to your taste build a different character where the mechanics make the smart play doing something different
To me this is very similar to complaining that a barbarian strongly encourages you to maximize str and use a two handed weapon and hit things a lot.
You've got cause and effect backwards. You should choose a swashbuckler BECAUSE you want to play the playstyle it encourages.
Edit: but at this point I think this discussion has run its course. You asked for advice and have obviously found our advice unconvincing. That is fine, you obviously read it all and it was just not convincing to you. I think you're right, the swashbuckler is NOT a good match for you. No class or build is for everybody
Btw, lvl 13 Swashbuckler have is 5d6 Finisher, not 4d6.
Lvl 1 - 2d6
Lvl 5 - 3d6
Lvl 9 - 4d6
Lvl 13 - 5d6
Lvl 17 - 6d6
Yes but as teamwork, debuffs, etc start to be incorporated more, the rogue in that example pulls even further ahead at a faster rate due to finishers disallowing you to attack again.
As long as buffs only modify chances to hit (and most buffs modify only chances to hit), the numbers are roughly the same.
Bleeding damage is not that relevant, since the party will always try to take down one enemy per time ( the sooner, the better, the less healing required ). Damage on a miss is nice if you are out of hero points.
Also, even without the 3rd attack, the rogue is superior.
Not to say you forgot about the debilitating strike ( clumsy condition, extra precision damage or weakness to physical damage).
There's really no comparison.
Obviously, all of this leaving apart the dual wield dedication for double slice. Just to let room for a little little challenge.
As I said, the difference is roughly 38% extra damage. It's obviously an estimation, but it gives a good idea of the difference. I haven't counted Debilitating Strike or anything outside pure damage. I've counted Finisher extra damage as it's too big to be ignored.
If you are that much focusing on damage, clearly, don't play a Swashbuckler. But the class seems overall equivalent to Rogue in my opinion. The beginning is a bit harder but at mid levels, the Swashbuckler clearly has a lot of good things.| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I admit this is a personal pet peeves, but I really dislike when class versus class analysis gets white-room abstracted to the point where people are saying "37.9% optimal DPR decrease from the damage gold standard". I am really glad that people are representing the fact that the mechanics of the Swashbuckler make you play and feel like a Swashbuckler. I do agree that all classes should be competitive with each other, but there needs to be a healthy variety of classes with a healthy variety of how they do their thing.
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Rogue does more damage, but that's only if you sit there and attack doing basically nothing else. Swashbuckler gets a good portion of that damage and two other actions to impose debuffs or move around. That's no small advantage.
And the swash is also sturdier given its hit points and it's class feature that discourages 3rd or even 2nd attacks.
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Rogue (along with the fighter) is also a golden child of PF2 after being nearly an unplayable mess in PF1. It has superior damage and skill versatility that can let it really fill a large number of party roles while maintaining impressive combat capabilities. Its only downfall in this edition is that it is squishy and requires support to keep on its feet. It would not be great for the game for every martial class to keep up with a sneak attacking rogue damage-wise, while also gaining other benefits, especially defensive ones. I think it is good for classes to focus on letting you do the thing that you picked the class to do.
I also think that we are still waiting on a future book that helps make "martial arts" as in athletics and acrobatic combat options, feel fully fleshed out. It would have been awesome to get that before the Phoenix AP, but maybe we'll get more of it in parts with that AP.
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The one thing I hate about swashbuckler is that you can't get a strength boost from the class so you're capped to 16 strength despite there being a style that's perfectly suited for a strength build in the gymnast.
The one thing I hate about swashbuckler is that you can't get a strength boost from the class so you're capped to 16 strength despite there being a style that's perfectly suited for a strength build in the gymnast.
That's not completely true. On a Gymnast, you can forget about Charisma to increase Strength. But you can't get a charismatic and strong Gymnast, yes.
The one thing I hate about swashbuckler is that you can't get a strength boost from the class so you're capped to 16 strength despite there being a style that's perfectly suited for a strength build in the gymnast.That's not completely true. On a Gymnast, you can forget about Charisma to increase Strength. But you can't get a charismatic and strong Gymnast, yes.
Yeah but you can't boost twice with the ancestry unless you also get a flaw so 10 base and you at most get 3 boosts from ancestry background and the lvl 1 boosts, I think to always cap at 16 lvl 1.
Yeah but you can't boost twice with the ancestry unless you also get a flaw so 10 base and you at most get 3 boosts from ancestry background and the lvl 1 boosts, I think to always cap at 16 lvl 1.The one thing I hate about swashbuckler is that you can't get a strength boost from the class so you're capped to 16 strength despite there being a style that's perfectly suited for a strength build in the gymnast.That's not completely true. On a Gymnast, you can forget about Charisma to increase Strength. But you can't get a charismatic and strong Gymnast, yes.
Ho, yeah, I didn't understand your point.
Yes, you are limited to 16. And I think it's by design, as it would open Strength-based Swashbuckler builds a bit too easily.
The one thing I hate about swashbuckler is that you can't get a strength boost from the class so you're capped to 16 strength despite there being a style that's perfectly suited for a strength build in the gymnast.That's not completely true. On a Gymnast, you can forget about Charisma to increase Strength. But you can't get a charismatic and strong Gymnast, yes.He means that you are forced to use dex if you want to start with a 18.
Not being allowed to put your dex bonus into str ( 1-4,10-14 and 20 ( 50% of the whole time ) results in something like:
- 1 point less in athletics
- 1 point less to hit chance
- 1 point less damage
- 1 point less bulk
- possible issues with heavy armors from lvls between 1-4, if you choose to wear a half or full plate ( 18 str required to avoid penalties ).
the +1 hit is pretty killer there. I could do with the rest. If there wasn't the gymnast style I'd just think the swashbuckler isn't expected to be a hulking person and that's that but offering up strength to gain panache and then not allowing to dump dex is annoying to me.
the +1 hit is pretty killer there. I could do with the rest. If there wasn't the gymnast style I'd just think the swashbuckler isn't expected to be a hulking person and that's that but offering up strength to gain panache and then not allowing to dump dex is annoying to me.
In my opinion, it's a choice. There is nearly no way to build a one-attribute Swashbuckler. You can a bit with a Gymnast by using Finesse weapons with traits (but you limit your maneuvers to the one your weapon gives) and you can also with a Fencer and the Scout archetype but it's far from incredible as the Archetype limits your choice of actions.
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Gymnast already suffers from having to apply MAP to its maneuvers or attack (whichever comes second in the round), and can’t use maneuvers after a finisher. Letting that one swashbuckler style have STR as a key stat would have been fine. They still need a free hand for most maneuvers, and tumble through is still their only fallback option, so it’s not like you’re going to end up with a bunch of 10 dex heavy armor greatsword wielding swashbucklers.
But you might end up with a few more luchadores.
Prevailing indications from the current design team are that finesse trip weapons do not allow you to use dexterity for the athletics check. Without something more formal, expect table variation/talk to your GM.
I tried a gymnast and was disappointed in it. Panache tended to be a two round thing. Move into position and try to land a maneuver round 1, then take an attack at -4. Then on round 2 try to use the finisher.
One thing to keep in mind, though, is that you can target fort or ref with maneuvers. So that did help a little bit, once I figured out which save would be likely to be lower on a creature. Overall, though, MAP and 16 STR just killed the build for me.
I switched to Fencer, which has its own issues, but feels better in that I can play the style and generally have a chance to get panache every round without penalizing my attack.
I tried a gymnast and was disappointed in it. Panache tended to be a two round thing. Move into position and try to land a maneuver round 1, then take an attack at -4. Then on round 2 try to use the finisher.
That's the way to play a Gymnast. Before level 9, it's tough. But with Exemplary Finisher at level 9 and Derring-Do at level 10, Gymnasts clearly have their strengths. Round 1: Trip + Grapple. Round 2: Finisher.
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I tried a gymnast and was disappointed in it. Panache tended to be a two round thing. Move into position and try to land a maneuver round 1, then take an attack at -4. Then on round 2 try to use the finisher.That's the way to play a Gymnast. Before level 9, it's tough. But with Exemplary Finisher at level 9 and Derring-Do at level 10, Gymnasts clearly have their strengths. Round 1: Trip + Grapple. Round 2: Finisher.
In the discussion of how it stacks up against other classes, however, that puts the damage far behind. Even the debuff is lagging, when compared to things like Snagging Strike that include your normal damage and flat-footed. Vs a trip at a lower attack and no damage.
Magus has been brought up, and the things that frustrated me about the Swashbuckler are the same things that frustrate me about Striking Spell.
I also find it frustrating that gaining panache improves your move speed, but you have to invest in improving your move speed to have a better chance to gain panache. Tumble through is a great fallback, but if you’re at base movement and you start more than 15 feet away, you have to take two actions to use it. When you have panache, you’ve got the extra movement to do it in one stride, but you don’t need to do it, because you already have panache. That continues to be an issue even with switching to fencer. I feel like I’m going to end up finding a way to get longstrider, making the status bonus from panache superfluous until high levels.
In the discussion of how it stacks up against other classes, however, that puts the damage far behind. Even the debuff is lagging, when compared to things like Snagging Strike that include your normal damage and flat-footed. Vs a trip at a lower attack and no damage.Magus has been brought up, and the things that frustrated me about the Swashbuckler are the same things that frustrate me about Striking Spell.
I also find it frustrating that gaining panache improves your move speed, but you have to invest in improving your move speed to have a better chance to gain panache. Tumble through is a great fallback, but if you’re at base movement and you start more than 15 feet away, you have to take two actions to use it. When you have panache, you’ve got the extra movement to do it in one stride, but you don’t need to do it, because you already have panache. That continues to be an issue even with switching to fencer. I feel like I’m going to end up finding a way to get longstrider, making the status bonus from panache superfluous until high levels.
Remember that you gain the extra movement from Panache the moment you gain Panache. So you just need to end your move in the enemy's square thanks to Tumble Through.
And you have way better chances to succeed at your combat maneuvers as soon as you have Panache (with Derring-Do). The Swashbuckler is the best at combat maneuver. Also, with Exemplary Finisher, you add up to 8 damage to your Finisher, compensating the fact you can use it only every 2 rounds. And Trip + Grapple is not just about Flat-Footed. It's about Flat-Footed + Restrained + malus to attacks + malus to Escape. It's great at controlling enemies, especially with Riposte. The Gymnast Swashbuckler clearly has its strength, but you must be level 10 for that.|
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Derring-Do is a 10th level ability. I’m never going to judge a class’s viability on something you get at best halfway through your career. Enduring 9 levels just to get to a point where you can reliably use your main class ability isn’t fun for me.
I don’t think adding the extra movement onto a stride that you are in the middle of making is a common interpretation. You have a speed when you perform the tumble through action (which includes the stride). I wouldn’t expect that to change until after you have completed the tumble through action, which you can’t do if you don’t have enough speed to get through their square. If there’s an actual rule somewhere that says otherwise, I’d love a link to it.