First off, many thanks for everyone who's helped me on here with various character build questions. Most appreciated :)
So, I have a Warpriest that just hit 11th. Originally I was going to have him swinging an earthbreaker around (I know, not the most optimizing build, I just loved the concept) but a bit on we came across a very powerful shield and he was the only one who could use it.
So I've been working with that, took Weapon Focus: Dwarven waraxe so I could use that along with the shield. Now that I've hit 11th, I wanted to retrain my feats (it'll take a bit of down time as I'm retraining at least 4) to get Shield Master. Problem is, I don't know precisely what to use in my other hand.
I'm thinking Kukri, as it's light, but it seems that it would be better in my off hand. Am I doing that right? (Also, I'll need to retrain one more feat to get Weapon focus in both Shields and Kukri or whatever my other weapon is).
As a level 11 Warpriest with 20 str, BAB 8, Weapon Focus (both weapons), and a +5 shield, and with a +1 kukri in my off hand (more interested in adding Keen and a burst to that one), would my attacks be this?
Shield in main hand:
Shield: +19/+14, 1d10+10
Kukri: +13, 1d10+6
Kukri in main hand:
Kukri: +11/+9, 1d10+6
Shield: +19, 1d10+10
Also, does adding shield spikes let you add some effects (like Holy) to the shield?
It seems the best route is to make the shield the main hand, kukri off hand . Less penalties than having something else but an extra attack. Am I reading into it right?
(Figure I'll take Improved Critical: Shield soon)
I will be dropping power attack and furious focus for this. Keeping power attack means waiting a bit for weapon focus on the kukri.
You definitely have the right idea Personally i would have gone with more of a dex based route, but you're too far down the line for that aren't ya? I would go with a gladius instead since it's more versatile.
And don't forget to get quicken blessing if you have an alignment blessing.
Using your kukri in the main hand and a heavy shield in the off hand means you're taking a -4 to both sets of attacks, with the shield's TWF penalty (but not the kukri's) negated by shield master. Use a light shield and a kukri and they're both light weapons which means a -2. A dwarven waraxe and a light shield with the latter being off also works, as does heavy shield mainhand, kukri off.
+1 holy shield spikes on a +5 shield with shield master gets you +5 holy shield bashes as I read it.
As a war priest, pretty much anything with a 18+ natural crit is great for you.
Whats your dex cap out at? 15 or 17?
I started with a dex of just 12. I'm actually going to retrain one of my attribute points to dex, and then get an ioun stone. I'm not opposed to adding more dex, but definitely focusing a lot on strength. As of right now though, Dex will be 15 for the time being. I'm a dwarf in full plate, but as my dex goes up I can get armor better suited for that.
Didn't dig deep enough at character creation, so I'm lawful neutral. Quicken blessing wouldn't be too useful for me sadly. Should have gone Lawful Good, but oh well.
Why gladius? I don't know much about performance weapons...
A gladius is a shortsword with two damage types rather than just one. You can fight underwater or dismember a zombie with it, though not both at once.
Although I hate the idea, I have to ask: why not just use two shields?
Fair on the Gladius... just was thinking I could use the shield with bludgeoning and piercing, then kukri for slashing. Maybe?
As for two shields... I agree, I don't like the idea. It just feels weird and I'm not a fan of it, that's all.
With a dex of 12 and having to get an ioun stone you're probably better off not bothering to go THAT deep in the twf chain. I don't think you can take two weapon rend without dex 17. So I'd look at like, weapon trick for sword
I might even call it at
Two weapon fighting
Double slice
Weapon trick (sword + shield) with a bonus feat at 11 or higher level
Shield focus (prereq)
Shield Mastery
That will let you swing once with sword and shield on the charge, mitigating the "i need a full attack" a little bit for the build.
I'd ditch the shield spikes and just take a spare weapon focus on the type of shield you want. Use a P/S mainhand and the shield for bashing.
Two Spiked Shields !!!
Take Performance Dance and Acrobatics (Fluff) to spin around the Battlefield with your two circular saw blades!!!
No one actually wants to PLAY double shield characters. For most players a mental image of their PC that looks clownish turns them off, and there's very little more clownish than double shields
Ryan Freire wrote: No one actually wants to PLAY double shield characters. For most players a mental image of their PC that looks clownish turns them off, and there's very little more clownish than double shields I agree I also wouldn't be too keen to actually play such a character. But maybe it's just the lack of cool examples in movies, comics and other media. Such an example could hold off two opposite attackers (even crossfire), deflect all attacks of a traditional dual-wielder or give someone a two-sided headbutt. And nobody said both shields would have to be identical, maybe they have different shapes, special powers or even intelligence.
I believe Jet Li played a monk who practices chicken style at the end to defeat a group of kung fu assassins who all work in tandem under a centipede costume. He uses double shields in chicken stance. Can't remember the name of the film though
I can't say that a dwarf using a kukri and heavy shield in full plate looks any "cooler" though...but to each, their own I guess.
yukongil wrote: I believe Jet Li played a monk who practices chicken style at the end to defeat a group of kung fu assassins who all work in tandem under a centipede costume. He uses double shields in chicken stance. Can't remember the name of the film though
I can't say that a dwarf using a kukri and heavy shield in full plate looks any "cooler" though...but to each, their own I guess.
As a warpriest that kukri could just as easily be a scimitar, or an elven thornblade, or an urumi, or any 18+ one handed weapon. Bear in mind that at ~4.5 feet tall, that kukri in a dwarfs hands is gonna look a lot like a shortsword.
I see some recommendations of getting a weapon with P/S as opposed to a better crit range. I freely admit that I haven't seen nearly so many circumstances that require having as many B/P/S options as the thread implies. GM preference I presume?
I mostly wanted to use the spikes to add Holy to my damage, as being a LN warpriest I can't do that through my sacred weapon sadly. I can tack on all the elemental damages, but not anti-evil. I'm not questioning anyone's recommendations, just explaining why I was looking at that option. I was also going to put Ghost Touch on them, as Warpriests don't get that as an option. If there's a spell that would allow me to get access to that, I'd love to know. I usually have Channel Fervor ready, to give myself haste, and Blessing of Fervor to give everyone haste, depending on action economy in the fight.
The shield is going to be the better weapon for me from a bonus (+5) for a long time, and keeping the penalty to -2 instead of -4 was the other reason for putting it in my main hand.
On a side note, I don't MIND getting a +4 to Dex from my belt (along with +4 strength), just have to save up for that. Got a lot of things I'm spending money on this time, and even with my crafting feats (I have both Craft Wondrous Item and Craft Magical Arms and Armor), it'd burn quite a bit (though I then wouldn't need to get the Ioun stone). Trimming down my weapon enchantments would probably save enough money to do so.
Ryan Freire wrote: yukongil wrote: I believe Jet Li played a monk who practices chicken style at the end to defeat a group of kung fu assassins who all work in tandem under a centipede costume. He uses double shields in chicken stance. Can't remember the name of the film though
I can't say that a dwarf using a kukri and heavy shield in full plate looks any "cooler" though...but to each, their own I guess.
As a warpriest that kukri could just as easily be a scimitar, or an elven thornblade, or an urumi, or any 18+ one handed weapon. Bear in mind that at ~4.5 feet tall, that kukri in a dwarfs hands is gonna look a lot like a shortsword. The elven thornblade is definitely worth working towards... if I have a bit more downtime, I could retrain power attack and get that with a feat and then apply the weapon focus to that instead of the kukri. I lose a feat, but Warpriests do get extra ones so it's not too bad. Then I'd have the 18+ crit range and the P/S
I'd just shell out for the low enhancement one with Training (EWP thornblade)
SheepishEidolon wrote: Ryan Freire wrote: No one actually wants to PLAY double shield characters. For most players a mental image of their PC that looks clownish turns them off, and there's very little more clownish than double shields I agree I also wouldn't be too keen to actually play such a character. But maybe it's just the lack of cool examples in movies, comics and other media. Such an example could hold off two opposite attackers (even crossfire), deflect all attacks of a traditional dual-wielder or give someone a two-sided headbutt. And nobody said both shields would have to be identical, maybe they have different shapes, special powers or even intelligence. I would like to point out that the Dwarven War-Shield explicitly talks about a character wielding two of it at the same time, including making shield bashs with both, so it's not merely some cheesy stuff players come up with, but it's an officially recognized playstyle.
Derklord wrote: SheepishEidolon wrote: Ryan Freire wrote: No one actually wants to PLAY double shield characters. For most players a mental image of their PC that looks clownish turns them off, and there's very little more clownish than double shields I agree I also wouldn't be too keen to actually play such a character. But maybe it's just the lack of cool examples in movies, comics and other media. Such an example could hold off two opposite attackers (even crossfire), deflect all attacks of a traditional dual-wielder or give someone a two-sided headbutt. And nobody said both shields would have to be identical, maybe they have different shapes, special powers or even intelligence. I would like to point out that the Dwarven War-Shield explicitly talks about a character wielding two of it at the same time, including making shield bashs with both, so it's not merely some cheesy stuff players come up with, but it's an officially recognized playstyle. there are a lot of officially recognized playstyles that honestly look ridiculous.
For the sheer # of options and power boosts starknife is the single most loved weapon by the design team. It still looks goofy as f%%@ and I (and a fair few others) end up avoiding it simply because of aesthetics. The sawtooth sabre and its fighting style is patently cartoonishly ridiculous. Using an officially recognized fighting style doesn't make your character not goofy lookin.
In fact in a lot of cases both minmaxing and sticking too closely to unique pathfinder themes make your d+d character look a lot like old vanilla wow end game raiders.
Ryan Freire wrote: I'd just shell out for the low enhancement one with Training (EWP thornblade) By it's lonesome, yes, but if I throw keen on there and then a burst, it gets a good bit more expensive (though I'd probably hold off on the burst for the time being, just make it a +1 keen training elven thornblade).
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yukongil wrote: I believe Jet Li played a monk who practices chicken style at the end to defeat a group of kung fu assassins who all work in tandem under a centipede costume. He uses double shields in chicken stance. Can't remember the name of the film though
Last Hero in China
The antagonists of the Star Wars novel "Shatterpoint" used dual shields, though these were modified so their edges were all vibroknives.
BECMI had several shields designed for offense as well as defense, most notably the knife shield and tusked shield, but they were prone to breaking so I don't think many people used them.
Ryan Freire wrote: As a war priest, pretty much anything with a 18+ natural crit is great for you.
Whats your dex cap out at? 15 or 17?
I guess that's true of Fighters, too. There is that Advanced Weapon Training Focused Weapon that lets you inflict damage with any weapon you have Weapon Focus with as if you were a Warpriest of a level = your Fighter Level.
Speaking personally I'd use a light shield if possible because you don't want to use fervor with absolutely every spell cast. If you already have a +5 heavy shield then you'll have to use that sure.
Crit range shouldn't be a bigger deal for a warpriest than anyone else, but they do get to ignore the lower damage die that such weapons have. You could use a light pick (20/x4) as easily as a kukri if you want to use shield main hand/ordinary weapon off and that might be occasionally amusing. A dwarven maulaxe is a fairly versatile light weapon. Or yes you could use a kukri.
LN warpriests should be able to cast align weapon (good) if required. It doesn't get the bonus damage of holy but it does bypass DR/good.
avr wrote: Speaking personally I'd use a light shield if possible because you don't want to use fervor with absolutely every spell cast. If you already have a +5 heavy shield then you'll have to use that sure. Yeah, it's a minor artifact (it does a lot more than the +5 bonus), so I'll be sticking with it for a long time. I just wanted a build that allowed me to get more use out of it.
avr wrote: Crit range shouldn't be a bigger deal for a warpriest than anyone else, but they do get to ignore the lower damage die that such weapons have. You could use a light pick (20/x4) as easily as a kukri if you want to use shield main hand/ordinary weapon off and that might be occasionally amusing. A dwarven maulaxe is a fairly versatile light weapon. Or yes you could use a kukri. I just liked the idea of being able to crit with d10s on a weapon designed to crit with d4s or d6s. I agree, the light pick has the bonus of when it does crit, it'd be rather ridiculous. A keen version would be good, and having multiple ways to grant haste to myself helps a lot (like Channel Vigor - I was very happy to learn of that spell). On a side note, the light pick does work with the fact he's a dwarf. A burst light pick +1 would do 4d10+21+(3d10+1d6 elemental damage) on a crit (presuming I get Double Slice). The maulaxe is nice too. Decisions, decisions lol.
avr wrote: LN warpriests should be able to cast align weapon (good) if required. It doesn't get the bonus damage of holy but it does bypass DR/good. I have a lot of trouble keeping up the vast amount of spells out there (why I tended towards Oracles, Hunters, Bards and Sorcs). Considering I can cast spells as a swift action on myself so long as they are cast within 1 round or less and I have fervors to use, this is one I'll make sure is on my prepared list.
Whew... I have some decisions to make before this weekend when we play again. I'm kind of leaning towards this so far:
1. Craft the Ioun Stone
2. Retrain the 4 feats I mentioned before. Maybe retrain power attack for Double Slice.
3. Craft my off-hand weapon - right now thinking either +1 keen Kukri, or +1 keen Light pick, either with a burst enchantment.
4. Maybe craft shield spikes, to add Holy to my shield, but realizing I was missing the align weapon I'm not nearly as set on that. It can wait, let me save up to buff up my off-hand weapon.
That would give me the +5 shield in my main hand, roll +17/+12 with 1d10+10 damage, unbuffed, and +13 with the off-hand weapon.
Potential buffs:
Divine Favor
Weapon of Awe
Channel Vigor
Greater Magical Weapon (especially next level, when it's +3 for my +1 weapon)
Mighty Strength
Also, Forceful Strike
Just looking at the capabilities, that's so much more than what I can currently do. Then I'll work on getting my dex to 17, maybe, and two weapon rend.
contagious zeal is a great War Priest spell to fervor cast. Give a little lovin to your allies as well
Honestly, dual shields is less ridiculous in my mind than wielding a shield and a pocket knife (kukri).
But to each their own. From a mechanics perspective, two shields with shield master is the optimum way.
At the very least, the shield should be your main hand weapon because it takes less penalties.
Claxon wrote: Honestly, dual shields is less ridiculous in my mind than wielding a shield and a pocket knife (kukri).
But to each their own. From a mechanics perspective, two shields with shield master is the optimum way.
At the very least, the shield should be your main hand weapon because it takes less penalties.
I get that - just the need for a light weapon, and kukri gives a really good crit range. That said, I'm kind of leaning towards the light pick simply because, while I'll crit way less often, when I DO crit it'll be pretty absurd.
Oh, and one tidbit for the shield being my main hand weapon is that I have the Magic blessing - so I can throw it 30 feet and it return (my Wisdom, being a warpriest, is pretty good) at a higher bonus to hit than in melee. Not useful when up close, but handy when terrain or other things prevent me from being able to charge. Gives me at least one shot to hit the target before I close in.
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