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like just typing it on google and looking at Wikipedia immediately shows the 2 main functions of the stone are turning metals into gold and granting immortality
i just cant understand why developers decided not to add it considering the capstone for alchemists used to be eternal youth
could the devs please give us alchemists our immortality back?
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It can be used to create the Elixir of Rejuvenation, which can instantly bring any creature that has died within a week back to life. And unlike other forms of resurrection, this doesn't come with any negative consequences and can't be stopped by Pharasma.
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It can be used to create the Elixir of Rejuvenation, which can instantly bring any creature that has died within a week back to life. And unlike other forms of resurrection, this doesn't come with any negative consequences and can't be stopped by Pharasma.
i'm not sure if i can put links on this forum so just google, actually let me copy it here
Philosopher's stone
The philosopher's stone is a legendary alchemical substance capable of turning base metals such as mercury into gold or silver. It is also called the elixir of life, useful for rejuvenation and for achieving immortality
[i removed a little bit of jargon]
Elixir of life
The elixir of life, also known as elixir of immortality and sometimes equated with the name philosopher's stone, is a potion that supposedly grants the drinker eternal life and/or eternal youth. This elixir was also said to cure all diseases
[same i removed a little bit of jargon]
resurrection at a point in the game [level 20] is far from rare and if you have a death clock over your head called aging it wont be very useful
besides its not like you can drink it after you die
i propose they add a third option to the stone so you can craft a elixir of youth that only works on you
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I agree it's odd that alchemists no longer get anti-aging when druids and monks still do, but I would just add a "the creature comes back in the prime of life" clause to the elixir of rejuvenation.
I agree it's odd that alchemists no longer get anti-aging when druids and monks still do, but I would just add a "the creature comes back in the prime of life" clause to the elixir of rejuvenation.
that also works great for me, alchemists as they are feel like they need a bonus but changing that alone would make the class much more attractive for me
alchemists are learn thought merit and intelligence and they seem to be the most scientist like of the classes in a sense i identify the most with them
also alchemy not being technically magic solves one of my most dreaded fears [anti-magic zones]
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Oh, I forgot about the Sun Orchard Elixir feature of Golarion. They may not want all those hordes of 20th-level alchemists competing with it.
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Oh, I forgot about the Sun Orchard Elixir feature of Golarion. They may not want all those hordes of 20th-level alchemists competing with it.
hence i suggested having a personal elixir that only worked on the alchemist like 1e
an alternative would be just adding eternal youth to the class features as something you just gain at level 20
still i dislike the idea of sacrificing player freedom for the sake of npcs we never had that issue before in 1e
first because not everything takes place in golarion
second because its clear npcs are using the same rules as players
look at the guy who made the sunlight orchid elixir he also made wish alchemy that would be like what 2 level 20 feats
by that weird line of reasoning every monastery would be filled with immortal monks and every forest would be filled with immortal druids
monks and druids would eventually be forbbiden as pharasma and axis would send legions of morrignas and maruts to hunt them for their immortality
so i guess we should all just agree not to go into that rabbit hole
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Oh, I forgot about the Sun Orchard Elixir feature of Golarion. They may not want all those hordes of 20th-level alchemists competing with it.
I believe this is the biggest reason why the "base" elixir of rejuvenation lost the function. The policy of being Golarion lore compliant foremost, such as the Tarrasque being CE instead of TN.
Well, time to roll out house rules for inner peace... (plus having replacement spell components for sorcerers, but that's on me personally)
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"Hordes of 20th-level alchemists" was a joke, BTW; I was hyperbolizing the scope of the competition "problem."
Having the philosopher's stone enable an elixir that works... heck, exactly like the sun orchid elixir... but only on its maker should be fine IMHO. Presumably then Artokus started with that and his genius was just the "works on anyone" part.
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Having the philosopher's stone enable an elixir that works... heck, exactly like the sun orchid elixir... but only on its maker should be fine IMHO. Presumably then Artokus started with that and his genius was just the "works on anyone" part.
Oh, hey, that's more or less how it worked in PF1, only you didn't need the stone, just to be a Thuvian Alchemist:
Eternal Youth (Su): At 10th level, a Thuvian alchemist learns how to formulate an imperfect duplicate of the sun orchid elixir that affects only her. This functions as the eternal youth grand discovery.
So having the Stone accomplish the same thing is in line with the lore.
Having the philosopher's stone enable an elixir that works... heck, exactly like the sun orchid elixir... but only on its maker should be fine IMHO. Presumably then Artokus started with that and his genius was just the "works on anyone" part.Oh, hey, that's more or less how it worked in PF1, only you didn't need the stone, just to be a Thuvian Alchemist:
Eternal Youth (Su): At 10th level, a Thuvian alchemist learns how to formulate an imperfect duplicate of the sun orchid elixir that affects only her. This functions as the eternal youth grand discovery.So having the Stone accomplish the same thing is in line with the lore.
yep that would also work great
if you look at the silver color of the sun orchid elixir and the quicksilver there might be a connection there
it takes 1 month to make a philosopher stone
every year 6 vials are made and the 1e page says its takes 1 month to ferment
6 months for the stones quicksilver
6 months for fermenting with the orchids
6 mature orchids for each vials
666?... nevermind
anyway i don't think its as simple as mixing 6 elixirs of rejuvenation with 6 sunlight orchids and waiting 6 months
but its clear that there is a connection
still for the love of god whatever you do don't do something like adding it as a rare/unique feat anything but that
It can be used to create the Elixir of Rejuvenation, which can instantly bring any creature that has died within a week back to life. And unlike other forms of resurrection, this doesn't come with any negative consequences and can't be stopped by Pharasma.
also credit where credit is due being the single method to revive people that doesn't mention pharasma is praise worthy
still i wish it could be used like the ambrosia of undying hope where you drink it and if you die afterwards it takes effect
also its interesting that both the Ambrosia of Undying Hope and the Sun Orchid Elixir both have the necromancy tag
maybe alchemy could become the future of necromancy
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I think because in setting "something that anybody can just take that will extend their life" is supposed to be incredibly rare.
If more than one person was capable of extending Razmir's life, his attempts to get a Sun Orchid Elixir would be much less desperate, for one thing.
I could see it granting some form of extended life for solely its creator though.
I think because in setting "something that anybody can just take that will extend their life" is supposed to be incredibly rare.
If more than one person was capable of extending Razmir's life, his attempts to get a Sun Orchid Elixir would be much less desperate, for one thing.
I could see it granting some form of extended life for solely its creator though.
true but to be fair Razmir could just get someone to reincarnate him
i just noticed there is a investigator archtype in 1e that is dedicated to hunt those who would attempt to steal or learn for themselves the secret to creating the sun orchid elixir
i think its "Guardian of Immortality
so while it may not be common its definitively not unheard of
still i do indeed prefer the personal use only specially because "pharasma"
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Also, on the subject of the Philosopher's Stone granting immortality, I don't really think it needs changing. Immortality is, barring certain unusual campaigns that stretch over decades or centuries, not likely to ever matter in game play terms. You're level 20 anyway; just say it makes you immortal.
I do expect the devs to take this point of view if/when briefly considering whether to errata the matter. It doesn't affect game play, so why spend time & text to fix it? So any fix suggested here is essentially a suggestion for GMs to houserule it that way in their non-PFS games.
But I am sad that they didn't just include creator-only youth in the first place, because it gives alchemists something great to have as their life's goal. I mean, you can have the current Stone as your life's goal, but IMHO it's not as cool.
EDIT: As far as Razmir getting reincarnate cast---does that spell still exist?
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Also, on the subject of the Philosopher's Stone granting immortality, I don't really think it needs changing. Immortality is, barring certain unusual campaigns that stretch over decades or centuries, not likely to ever matter in game play terms. You're level 20 anyway; just say it makes you immortal.
great so you have no issues with making it grant you immortality
i think most people who like picking immortality doesn't actually care if it will take effect its more about the role-play
for instance think of a dhampir sorcerer with the undead bloodline at level 20 selecting the bloodline mutation will not give him a lot of benefits since undead don't usually have wings
however that would have a immense roleplay benefit for the character because that undead tag represents him a half-vampire becoming more vampire like a true undead
same goes for something like for instance Endurance of the Rooted Tree for the monk, its unlikely at level 20 that food and water will ever be a problem but for a player that wants to mimic a Buddha like character it might be a huge deal
so its good to have the option
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Yeah, it's 100% about the roleplay.
"Did you hear about _____, the legendary alchemist, who made a potion of immortality?"
vs
"Did you hear about _____, the legendary alchemist, who made an extra 750 gp last month?"
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Yeah, it's 100% about the roleplay.
"Did you hear about _____, the legendary alchemist, who made a potion of immortality?"
vs
"Did you hear about _____, the legendary alchemist, who made an extra 750 gp last month?"
It's not the 750 gp that's impressive.
It's that they didn't have to pay taxes on it.
After all, there are two supposed inevitabilities....
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Yeah, it's 100% about the roleplay.
"Did you hear about _____, the legendary alchemist, who made a potion of immortality?"
vs
"Did you hear about _____, the legendary alchemist, who made an extra 750 gp last month?"
to be honest 750 is really not that much for a month
a flying potion from a random dungeon is 1000gp and a level 15 item and it doesn't take a month to finish a dungeon
so at level 20 a alchemist who is a class focused on crafting really shouldn't care that much for 750 gp
now that i look at it spellcasting services of level 9 are 1800 so universalist could do that 5 times a day every day and if he manages to do it once a moth he already beat the alchemist
holy Christ level 20 wizards in pathfinder must be filthy rich
imagine a level 20 diviner with spell blending selling his 5 casts of wish every day even if he does so for a very spell price say 100gp that is (5*100)*30 = 15000gp a month
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also its interesting that both the Ambrosia of Undying Hope and the Sun Orchid Elixir both have the necromancy tag
maybe alchemy could become the future of necromancy
Quite possibly. Healing magic generally got bumped over to Necromancy in PF2, but there's definitely avenues to explore in Alchemy for necromantic "magic."
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Quite possibly. Healing magic generally got bumped over to Necromancy in PF2, but there's definitely avenues to explore in Alchemy for necromantic "magic."also its interesting that both the Ambrosia of Undying Hope and the Sun Orchid Elixir both have the necromancy tag
maybe alchemy could become the future of necromancy
i know this will never comes true but i love the idea of being a scholar of alchemy (level 20) who knows both the sun orchid elixir and ambrosia of undying hope formulas
a group of assassin was send to kill me they try to poison me but it fails due to antidote(major) then they make a trap and i just walk into it a rogue stabs me over and over but it get resisted/nullified by a juggernaut mutagen with invincible mutagen and eternal elixir feats as he scream "its not working" as i laugh like a maniac
then their boss decides to break out their secret weapon just to watch as i come back to life and he says "how? we are in a dead magic zone" and then one of his underlings says in a scared voice "are the legends true? is he that immortal monster who has lived for over 5 centuries" and they decide to make a tactical retreat
at this point its a power fantasy but come on at least when you get to level 20 you gotta get a moment of glory once in a while
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at this point its a power fantasy but come on at least when you get to level 20 you gotta get a moment of glory once in a while
Certainly. And if it helps, Paizo agrees with you. Several developers have mentioned that they really like APs going to 20 now, since that gives characters multiple fights to enjoy their capstone feats and powers.
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like just typing it on google and looking at Wikipedia immediately shows the 2 main functions of the stone are turning metals into gold and granting immortality
i just cant understand why developers decided not to add it considering the capstone for alchemists used to be eternal youth
could the devs please give us alchemists our immortality back?
That was a big part of the allure for The Stone. It is what drew Nicolas Flamel and his wife to research it. Therefore, I think it would be very appropriate for it to have a link of some sort to a potion that extends life, provides temporary hit points, or something along those lines.
I do expect the devs to take this point of view if/when briefly considering whether to errata the matter. It doesn't affect game play, so why spend time & text to fix it? So any fix suggested here is essentially a suggestion for GMs to houserule it that way in their non-PFS games.This. It doesn't affect game play at all, anymore than say, never needing to use the bathroom. Age doesn't really matter in-game.
if it doesn't matter then just put in there for the people who care this way both parties are happy after all if people weren't interested they wouldn't have put the options on monk and druid the very fact a good part of 1e capstone's involved becoming immortal and the threads on how to achieve immortality on pf1 shows people care enough to make it worth a errate or do you think there is any specific reason it shouldn't happen?
Only reason I can think of off the top of my head why it doesn't is either a simple oversight, because immortality has no meaningful mechanical impact, or for the sake of keeping alchemical means of gaining eternal youth distinctly rare in the lore, limited to things like the sun orchid elixir. Not to say that 20th level alchemists are a common occurrence, but if you look at the list of 20th level wizards alone, you can imagine that there are enough, and if every such alchemist who has existed had easy access to immortality, there'd be even more, reducing the significance of the Sun Orchid Elixir which otherwise is vied for all over the inner sea, at the very least as far away as Ustalav.
Certainly, I can see nothing wrong with homebrewing a clause that the philosopher's stone can bring its creator immortality. Since most alchemy tends to lean into working for anybody, it would be a little odd to say an alchemist can only brew an elixir for themselves and nobody else, but this is a good step toward keeping it rare in the setting at large.
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I have no objection to it, but if I were a dev it would be at the bottom of my list of things to worry about. And considering the number of things they have to fix which actually can impact the game, I wouldn't hold my breath.if it doesn't matter then just put in there for the people who care this way both parties are happy after all if people weren't interested they wouldn't have put the options on monk and druid the very fact a good part of 1e capstone's involved becoming immortal and the threads on how to achieve immortality on pf1 shows people care enough to make it worth a errate or do you think there is any specific reason it shouldn't happen?I do expect the devs to take this point of view if/when briefly considering whether to errata the matter. It doesn't affect game play, so why spend time & text to fix it? So any fix suggested here is essentially a suggestion for GMs to houserule it that way in their non-PFS games.This. It doesn't affect game play at all, anymore than say, never needing to use the bathroom. Age doesn't really matter in-game.
Yeah, it's not a matter of there being any problem with this change, it's a matter of every change costing developer time (and possibly page layout problems) and there being many, many other changes a lot of people would really like to see. Would such a change improve the product? Easily. Would it improve it enough to justify the business impact? Much harder. :-( I hope it changes, I just don't expect it to.
I have no objection to it, but if I were a dev it would be at the bottom of my list of things to worry about. And considering the number of things they have to fix which actually can impact the game, I wouldn't hold my breath.if it doesn't matter then just put in there for the people who care this way both parties are happy after all if people weren't interested they wouldn't have put the options on monk and druid the very fact a good part of 1e capstone's involved becoming immortal and the threads on how to achieve immortality on pf1 shows people care enough to make it worth a errate or do you think there is any specific reason it shouldn't happen?I do expect the devs to take this point of view if/when briefly considering whether to errata the matter. It doesn't affect game play, so why spend time & text to fix it? So any fix suggested here is essentially a suggestion for GMs to houserule it that way in their non-PFS games.This. It doesn't affect game play at all, anymore than say, never needing to use the bathroom. Age doesn't really matter in-game.
i find it truly puzzling why is it so hard?
make no mistake i really appreciate the effort that goes into making the game but adding a single line of text that you already known should't really be treated as a colossal task
like just add a third option to the philosopher stone time
'it can be used to reset the user age back to young but only for the alchemist who crafted it
then stick it to the refrigerator along with a note "add this to the philosopher stone description in the next errata"
if you feel its too long you can do
' an level 20 alchemist who crafts this item stops aging
or even
' the crafter stops aging
4 words its really not that hard if you are short on ink just reduce it to 3
' halts crafter's aging