The simplest move action is moving up to your speed (see Speed on page 255 for more information). Many nonstandard modes of movement are also covered under this action, including burrowing (using your natural burrow speed, if you have one), climbing and swimming (using either the Athletics skill or your natural climb or swim speed, if you have one), or flying (using the Acrobatics skill if you have either access to flight or a natural fly speed). See Additional Movement Types on page 258 for more details. Some full actions (such as the operative’s trick attack) allow you to move as well, which act as moving up to your speed.
So trick attacking operatives (so.. operatives...) now have options with their movement. This is some small quality of life changes like draw a weapon or tumble while trick attacking.
But it also lets a ghost operative with spring attack can move whack hide.
Anyone else see any other implications from the change?
How do you figure tumble is an option? Tumbling is listed as a specific move action, under the acrobatics skill, not as a thing you can do as part of Move Your Speed.
Tumbling is a move action, and you move at half speed.
which act as moving up to your speed.
the move part of the trick attack acts as moving up to your speed
If you were moving as a move action you could tumble.
So you should be able to tumble as the move part of your trick attack
1) I don't think its right to view the tumble action as a move action that has a side effect of moving... moving is the whole point. If you're moving you can tumble. With this you're moving.
2) Tumbling around the battlefield with acrobatics is supposed to be the operative/spacerogue thing, but with their action economy welded to one full action round after round it hasn't been a real option.
3) The move acts as moving your speed. It's not just letting you do things you can also do while moving your speed.
1. It isn't a question of whether there's a side effect of moving. The question is whether Tumble is a distinct action or a part of the action Move Your Speed. Based on the text in tumble (I only quoted the main section, I don't think anything down in the definition of DCs matters, unless someone sees that I've omitted something), Tumble appears to be a specific move action. I don't see any text referring to it as something you do during Move Your Speed, unless there's a page you see that I should be looking at.
As long as you do not have the encumbered or overburdened condition (see pages 275–276), you can use Acrobatics to move through a space threatened by an enemy or enemies without provoking attacks of opportunity from them. Tumbling is a move action, and you move at half speed. The DC to move through an opponent’s threatened area is 15 + 1-1/2 × the opponent’s CR. If multiple opponents are threatening the same space, you attempt one check with a DC based on the opponent with the highest CR, and the DC increases by 2 for each additional opponent beyond the first.
2. I'm not saying that tumbling SHOULDN'T be an operative thing. But with the specific changes in the 3rd printing, it does not actually appear to be any different than it was before, based on part 1. I do consider it important to try to break down what the rules technically say, because they're the only common starting point everyone has. I definitely don't mean this to be taken as "people should actually run their games by the most legalistic reading of written rules that they can manage." But I can only get from "this should work" to saying "maybe I'd allow it in my game anyway" not all the way to saying "the rules allow this, and you should assume it works in anyone's game."
3. I don't think there's a working equivalency here. Action A (the movement in a full action like Trick Attack) is Move Your Speed, and can do anything you can do during Move Your Speed (draw weapons, jump, etc). Action B is Tumble, and I don't see anything saying that it is also Move Your Speed, and can be used whenever you are Moving Your Speed. If you see a rule that I missed indicating otherwise, I'd like to know where it is, so that I can be a little more correct than I was this morning.
1. It isn't a question of whether there's a side effect of moving. The question is whether Tumble is a distinct action or a part of the action Move Your Speed. Based on the text in tumble (I only quoted the main section, I don't think anything down in the definition of DCs matters, unless someone sees that I've omitted something), Tumble appears to be a specific move action. I don't see any text referring to it as something you do during Move Your Speed, unless there's a page you see that I should be looking at.
Its not that tumbling is a part of the move action. Its that tumbling is a move action where you move, which is what you're now allowed to do as part of a trick attack. There's no requirement that something is part of the new move action, just that its something you can do while moving.
Some full actions (such as the operative’s trick attack) allow you to move as well, which act as moving up to your speed.
If i was moving up to my speed could I instead tumble? Yes.
The first sentence even calls out as applying to entire move actions.
The simplest move action is moving up to your speed
Some full actions (such as the operative’s trick attack) allow you to move as well, which act as moving up to your speed.
Tumbling is a move action, and you move at half speed.
I don't think there's a working equivalency here. Action A (the movement in a full action like Trick Attack) is Move Your Speed, and can do anything you can do during Move Your Speed (draw weapons, jump, etc).
Act as moving your speed makes the equivalency. If you can do it with a move action to move you can do it with the move action welded to the full round action. If it was supposed to limit you to things you could do during a move action (as opposed to moving things you can do instead of a move action) i think it would be more limited or include the word during there.